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any link to vhd jab...gi stasis? please help

purplebumble

Warren Veteran
hi...i am STILL nursong poor bertie:shock: hes still a very poorly bunny and for a frenchie harder to catch back up i think anyway.

hes had soft poos on and off for a few weeks and i put bio lapis in the water for 5days....gave him fibreplex twice a day not three and lot sof hugs.

he had his vhd very very recently..last week i think....and by saturday afternoon had gone into stasis.

i know i have had many buns with stasis..one i lost to it...and it should really be old hat for me now..but with bertie its weird. he has never been the same gutwise since he got really sick and into severe stasis after losing willow last october. he has had one maybe two bouts since but only one hopsital stay since.

i wonder if it was the jab as looking back he was pretty low after...but seemed to pick up just soft poos a lot..but hey stress right?

i am going to ring our vet to get some more critical care and pray they have some of the special 60ml huge wide bore syringes hes used up....

she didnt think he needed anymore baytril or metaclop jabs....she was hoping hed get better without it as hes had so much on his plate with his eye etc.

but i think the metaclop syrup has made a difference albeit a weeny one. i now the jab is better but the syrup is enough to make him feel a bit hungry right? hes showed absolutely NO inclination to eat food untill hed had two lots of metaclop syrup during the day and evening today.

he is pooping but for a big bunnie who normally fills half a carrier bag a day with poops alone not very much..and ellen did say he hasnt got many poos in his tummy at all.

heres the original thread
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=198774

any new tips or ideas folks....ive run out already..i refuse to give him anything he hasnt already been eating but im scared to give him the mint incase it was that upsetting his tummy already!

help!!!!!
 
Is he having any pain relief for his eye ?

Ranitidine aswell as Metoclopromide ?

Does he eat hay/grass ?

Is he drinking ?

Is he keeping himself clean ?

When was his last Dental ?

Has your Vet ever mentioned 'impacted caecum' as a possibility ?

Has he had any diagnostics for his GI tract problems, bloods abdominal xray/ultra-sound ?

Soz for all the questions !
 
thank you....

um hes had a fecal test results not due back yet.....but ellen says shes doubtful itll show anything cos its mainly for parasites and seeing as hes panacured regulalry.....

i spoke to her today and told her about the huge cecal ball i found...and i told her some feces were egg shaped a few times on and of..she said its the instestines that sort out the shape of poop..but doesnt think theres a big problem,,all related or not at all.

shes putting up more critical care for him and i have asked for more syringes....i have given him bifs metaclop syrup and sure enough once hes dosed he poops more. He is indeed eating hay..and now more pellets.....so i told her i was going to see if it owrked and it has..so i will ring her and say metaclop and ask for zantac..
she normally gives it for buns who dont eat at all..after i had the info on here;) last time he was ill.

she says his eye isnt what bothers him as much as the pulling and pushing aorund...and the long trips to john chitty in the past and loads of weekly checks at cowplain....etc. she said the ye drops are actally the best method of pain relief but it flared his eye back up again.

i dont want to give him metacam long term....unless vital...if he turns aggressive like he did when his eye was it its worst..then id ask again..

ellen said interfering too much can stress buns out even more...best to take the least aggressive therapy route to see what happens till the end of the week and if he gets worse or doesnt get better then its test time....

she doesnt want bertie to die from stress...neither do i.. but if follow ups are needed then they have to be done.

am i right..or would you push harder?

hes actually come up for his feeds this evening...we figured it out to give him fibreplex in the morning and check hes pooping..then giving fresh hay and seeing if hes eaten any pellets.
then in the evening when hes not sleeping as soundly...give him 2 60ml syringes of critical care.....2ml metaclop.....fibreplex....then late night...early hours...2 60ml syringes of cc....2ml metaclop...fibreplex.

that way it keeps his tummy active when its overnight...and first thing i can check hes ok..if hes having an awake moment during the day...then i try to syringe him..we were doing that and found we had to do so many times a day one syringe at a time it was stressing him out way too much.

i know it should be regulalry but overnite is when theyre most active.(.if you can call him that normally bless him:lol:) so i know hes going to be ok overnite...and i can see the poops and cecals and if hes got mroe then i will bag them up and deliver them to ellen when i go tomorrow aft to pick up the meds...and his soft toy bunny he left behind at the hospital:oops:

hes eaten a lot more than yesterday......he even looked a bit brighter......but im know its still not enough. Ellen says hes a big bunny..needs lots of food cc wise with pellets and esp his hay to bulk up his gi tract to keep it moving.She says hes not drinking cos the cc is so wet..i guesses as much....and he isnt showing signs of dehydration so far....

and yes hes washing himself.......quite well......and tonite...he sneaked nikkis empty crisp bag into the tent....trying to lick the bag:shock: perhaps it was the salt? so hes obviously feeling better!!!

no we dont give him crisps!!!

hes fighting his syringes like a demon..nearly impaled himself down his throat tonight..jumping with it in his mouth....scared us witless!!

jane please tell me as i dont have a clue what tests would or oculd be done that youve mentioned and what it would be for?

i know about a impacted ceceum...im sure it was what bif had the start of when that vet said she must have cancer of the cervix and wanted to put her to sleep:evil: she did indeed have a cylindrical mass...but the second opionion saved her life....bio lapis for about a month daily as an isotonic dose if she wouldnt drink the water etc....and then she got help via our old bunvet petra. it took time but by the time she saw her again the mass had gone..completley. her ceceum....had stop being overfull and inflammed..

is that what you mean?

gawds...i say to people i know so much more about buns than i used to...but i know so very very little:(

btw berties weeing fine too....and bifs going loads of bigger healthy poops....just one or two spots of soft poos where shes terrified over bertie being away and us keep snatching him away from her.
but shes not doing much...im so pleased....

tonight nikki gave them both 2 small sprigs of mint...berties was gone before bif had even taken her first one:shock: good sign!!

please more info.....
 
Personally I cant help but feel that some Metacam would be helpful.
I appreciate your concern about its longterm use, but IMO I'd rather a Bun were comfortable and it does not sound as though Bertie is.

From what you have said he has a few possible sources of pain, his eye(is he having any eye drops at the moment-if not it may be hurting him), his teeth and his guts. I would not feel happy caring for a Bun like that without them being prescribed analgesia.

I agree that stress is a very important factor to bare in mind when considering putting a Bun through lots of diagnostics. Sometimes I feel Vets can overlook that in their determination to establish a diagnosis. So its good to hear that your Vet takes the 'stress factor' into consideration.

In short if I were caring for a Bun with Bertie's problems I'd continue with the fibreplex and Zantac. If my Vet agreed I'd stop the Metoclop, it can actually cause gripey tummy pains. Zantac is a prokinetic aswell as an anti ulcer med and it works on the lower GI tract. Metoclop works higher up. But please dont stop any medication without first consulting your Vet
I'd also ask my Vet to prescribe Metacam

If he is not drinking then SQ fluid therapy may be helpful

Will he eat CC from a dish ? I think trying to minimise the amount of 'hands on' intervention would help reduce his stress. It would be good to only have to syringe meds into him and allow him to eat for himself. Whilst assisted feeds are sometimes essential it has to be balanced out with the fact that its a stressful proceedure .....back to that 'stress factor' again.

I hope Bertie's GI problems improve :)
 
:wave: thank you so much jane....i really appreciate this:wave:

i rang the vet this morning but she wayyy too busy consulting and said to carry on doing what im doing and if its serious to bring him in tomorrow morn or if its urgent this evening....

but hes eating as hes had metaclop but hes pooping more poops albeit werid shaped some teeny some big...all pale in colour due to the cc i guess?
he has been drinking a bit overnite..water levels were lowest theyve been in the dog bowl since he started his cc feeds.

this morning 4 huge stinkingly foul puddings..some with the odd ball or two visible in it.

i am happy hes eating and pooping..not like he should but hes improving...but is that down to the metaclop.......

i am a bit miffed to be honest about metacam.....i will dig aorund and seee if i have any of salem kitties metacam.

the arguement is if the pain in his eye was that abd hed be like it al the time...hed show real issues painwise.

i think if i had an eye ulcer id moan......mind you saying that mum had a smal one on her eye white..and it was just pricking her....his is in the cornea which is meant to be better painwise i read. still hes had a dodgy tummy for months and months..and like i said...since he was critical last oct/begin nov..he hasnt really been the same...brought on by losing willow so suddenly:(

otherwise is this normal...a bun who isnt getitng treats or eating too many pellets...ive halved the amount yet again a few weeks back....for a frenchie who is actually losing weight a little i think that good...or is the weight loss due to soft puddings:?

i totally forgot about the zantacs property...you helped me when he was really ill last oct/nov..how could i have forgotten that!!

i have left a message with ellen for zantac..but something tells me i wont get any...i maybe paranoid a bit im hormonal and the Ad pills drive me scatty somedays....but i feel almsot like im being dismissed as a pain in the bottom.
which is odd as ellens usually so good with the buns..and me:oops: and is so patient with my mum and her bun..its easy to tlak down to andconfuse a 79yr old lady but ellens smashing with her.

i am concerned this si how bertie will have to live his life....awful mess..poor thing.
yes im pleased she takes stress etc into account..most vets dont!

thank you again jane....xx
 
I've probably missed it and I know jane asked but what condition are his rear teeth in and what exactly are you normally feeding him?

In additiion to what jane said the only other thing we haver used is Buscopan.
I know this works in a different and opposite way to metroclopramide but in the past when we have been in a similar position to you and we are looking at a final roll of the dice so to speak it has worked and I know of two rabbits that lived to tell the tale.

However I am not a vet and Buscopan is not licenced for rabbits. The vet we used made this very clear to us and did describe it as a kill or cure situation.

I would add though the rabbits in question had good teeth and were on the right high fibre/hay diet.

Re the hvd jab .....we have had far less problems with lapinject as opposed to cylap with regards side effects.

Alan.
 
:wave: hi...yes theyve checked his teeth and cant see any probs..but if it continues they will have to GA him and hes a bigger bunny..more risky:(

he seemed to pick up a little just before i left to get his meds....whilst waiting for the taxi:oops: he got a little energetic and was walking round me sniffing and butting me for a nose rub and demanding hugs and kisses off nikki.

ellen had put up the cc and zantac.....but she said its bad to use as it inhibits the acid essential to digest what hes eaten/been fed. i said it helped last time but as hes picked up a little ill leave it but keep it on standby.

hes eating a bit more and pooping a little more..even some in the litter tray. But without the top up feeds i dont think hell stay that way..neither does she so i am going to continue with at least 2 60ml syringes now as hes starting to want to eat...
jane hed throw the saucer/bowl at me:lol::lol:

weve only ever had one bun who ate cc off a saucer...when he was il with a bladder infection....and he liked it wayy too much:lol:

berties eating hay....hes eating pellets and omg hes eaten two squishy poos too late afternoon. hurrah..gott be getitng better...

now its the mess im going to come down to in the morning thats worrying me:(

i do ownder if its stress related after all....thinkig back..he must have felt the loss of bandit as he was very withdrawn and looked for him even tho they werent bonded. then we lost litle capser and altho he wasnt allowed near the buns we must have freaked the buns out carrying his dying body to the taxi:(
then theres been all the vets trips with his eye...with bif....bif ending up in stasis and being hospitalised......then salem kitty being kept in vets for three days freaked bertie, bif and zuzu kitty out. bertie never slept propelry whilst salem wasnt here..neither did bif or zuzu.
then bif had a dental where she was whisked off to the hospitala nd given sedation to burr her spurs....we had to clean everything as her soft poos due to dental robs were disgusting everywhere.....i think bertie may have taken this to mean shed died?
hes been very stuck to her since and since hes been back it took her a while but shes snuggling him more and more now. and then they have a mooch aorund the litter box and haysupplies.

with all the treatments hes had for his eye too ii guess with salem disappearing like that it was the start of the whole thing..looking back it would have been about then he had tummy probs and i blamed it on grass in the garden.

that and having his vhd jab..too much on his delicate system..im glad it wasnt cylap!!

hes been in a very quiet but happy mood..i only hope it continues tomorrow...i will give him the last two tubes of fibreplex too..he has one tube a day a bun his size!!!!:shock:

i really do hope he doesnt do what he did last...pick up only to fall again....it took months to get him right.

poor old sausage i guess hes not as chilled as he acts.
 
hello? anyone?

..............................:( dead thread.

just when i was thrilled to post how much better he was today..just a small poo smutt on the floor..eating his cecals..and pellets and hay.....and a bit of mint...nom nom nom. being flirty.....and still having feeds but only two syringes before bed at nite....keeps his tummy busy!! hes eaten a lot of food today compared to the last week and a bit......im soooo pleased for him.

we will still give him the syringe feeds till next week..monday at least.

im almost out of fibreplex...will have to add bio lapis to the water bowl..or isotonically to the feed syringes.
 
Aww, I'm glad he's feeling better :D

The manufacturers of fibreplex only recommend using it for 2 days anyway (not sure why) so I usually switch to bio-lapis after a few days anyway.
Who is he fliting with? :lol:
 
It's great to hear the wee mite is feeling better, I love fibreplex me. It's like a miracle drug for stasis bunnies.:lol:
 
yes i used to swear by bio lapis in water or sprinkled on food..but this has added fibre too...wonder drug!!!!

our vet rang back today with results of his poo test...nothing wrong whatsoever!! i told her hes eating fine now but he had a terrible tummy..i think i fed him two or three times instead of the once due to being so tired:oops:

the vet said she doesnt know what else to do at the moment as he has no other symptoms anywhere else....how do you test for something youve no idea about!!

i think like his wifey bif..hes now prone to it from stress.

hes such a lovable old duffer....i cant think of him as being the laid back one anymore sadly.

thank you very much:wave:
 
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