Fibreplex, Zantac and metacam?? u/d not really eating

Hi I had Daisy spayed on Mon and she was eating, drinking and going to the loo pretty much straight away. Then yest i was worried that she might have been in pain as she was only given a pain relief injection on mon after her spay. anyway after some advic from prettylupin (thanks alot by the way! ) i rang the vet this morning, she was also off her food this morning which was highly unusual for her (normally a little piggy!) I spoke to the vet that done her spay and she thought that maybe she was in some pain but without seeing her wouldnt tell me for definate, which was fair enough. I made an appointment to take her in but i couldnt see her as she was a different surgery which was too far for me to get to. So i saw another vet that i hadnt seen before, he had a feel of her tum and said she hasnt got any lumps but has prescribed her Zantac (0.3 mls twice dailyx3days) and fibreplex ( not sure on dose yet, need to pick it up later). However when i mentioned giving her pain relief he said that he didnt think it was necessary but i could give her some metacam ( as i had some at home but wouldnt bother buying any) He also said that if i gave it at the same time as the zantac then i wouldnt know what was working. Now im not sure what to, i dont want to stress her out by syringe feeding her loads of different stuff ( she is already on baytril for an abcess) but i want to make sure that she isnt in pain. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and really sorry for the long post, hope i havent confused anyone i tend to babble!!

Hi :wave:

If he said you can give her that metacam you have at home then give it to her. It is almost impossible to deduce whether a bunny is in pain or not so it is safer, considering her being off her food, to assume that she is in pain. Does it matter particularly whether or not you know which drug is working? that statement of his has confused me :? she is post-spay and not eating - I think it safe to assume she is both in pain AND probably has a touch of ileus (gut slowdown) for which my vet would prescribe BOTH drugs together in fact, as ranitidine (which works on lower gut motility) also has the added effect of protecting the gastric mucosa (which we assume is affected in rabbits by NSAID as it is in us - but I don't think anyone is certain of this :?) and is therefore quite a good idea to give them together. My buns like the taste of both medicines, and fibreplex too - so hopefully your bun will too. I would personally give all 3 medicines - but that's just me

Did he tell you how much metacam you can give her? and how often?

Hello me again!! Yeah i am going to give it to her as i dont want her to be in pain. He said to give her 3 drops per day ( i think) i only gave gizmo it once a day. She weighs 2.3 kg. Im so stressed i dont now how people with more bunnies cope im a nervous wreck!!!!

crazy daisy said:

Hello me again!! Yeah i am going to give it to her as i dont want her to be in pain. He said to give her 3 drops per day ( i think) i only gave gizmo it once a day. She weighs 2.3 kg. Im so stressed i dont now how people with more bunnies cope im a nervous wreck!!!!

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Don't worry I am the same - I only have two and also get into a terrible state when they are ill! :lol:
It'll be ok don't worry

Okay, well that sounds like a very low dose of metacam to me. My vets prescribe down the lower end of the scale and it is still more than 3 drops.
We do 0.2ml of dog metacam per kg of bunny - so for my 2kg bunny that would be 0.4ml which is considerably more than 3 drops. Other vets go up to 0.4ml/kg once a day (and some exotic vets up to twice a day for a very short period of time only). So 3 drops is really a very low dose and makes me think the vet you saw isn't terribly bunny savvy. I can't tell you to give this much though as you know... you need vet permission for a prescription med. 3 drops is better than nothing, but I would be inclined to perhaps speak to that other vet on the phone about doses? The one too far away?
What I will say is that when Nino had his bloat recently I gave him 0.4ml/kg rather than the 0.2ml/kg an emergency vet I didn't know recommended (and split the dose to 12 hourly rather than once a day simply because he was in pain again by morning with bloat)

Just a hopefully helpful note!!

If syringe feeding her stresses her out (like it does to my bun) if you find that she likes the Fibreplex a lot you can just measure it out into the syringe then squirt it into her feeding dish. That's what I did and my Selene would lick the dish clean. The vet said this was okay.
For a week or so I was having to give her zantac syrup too (had to syringe that) so anything to reduce her stress, since her tummy only gets worse with stress, it seems.

Good luck!

The metacam i have is the cat one. When gizmo was having it i was told to measure it up the 2.5kg mark on the syringe. I will phone the other vet and check, i dont think he was very rabbit savvy but because it was a very last min appointment (within 10 mins of phoning!) i didnt think to ask as i was so worried! He also said to not start the zantac until tomorrow? Thanks danigrl i will try that if syringe feeding doesnt wotk will keep my fingers crossed!

crazy daisy said:

The metacam i have is the cat one. When gizmo was having it i was told to measure it up the 2.5kg mark on the syringe. I will phone the other vet and check, i dont think he was very rabbit savvy but because it was a very last min appointment (within 10 mins of phoning!) i didnt think to ask as i was so worried! He also said to not start the zantac until tomorrow? Thanks danigrl i will try that if syringe feeding doesnt wotk will keep my fingers crossed!

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Ahh I think cat metacam is different. :? Yes definitely phone the vet and check good luck and hope your little girl feels better soon.

Thats what i thought. ive rung the vet but she is consulting till 4.30 :? will let you know how i get on. Thank you

Right so i spoke to the vet and she said to start her off on 2ml of metacam once a day. She is now on Baytril 1.1ml once a day, zantac 0.3ml twice a day, metacam 2ml once a aday and fibreplex 3 times a day.
She is being really good which being syringe fed all of her meds but she is still not eating properly. How long would fibreplex and zantac take to work? She had her first lot of fibreplex last night around 6 then again this morning at about 5.15 with the zantac.
I noticed this morning that she has done a softer poo, not sure if it was ceocetrops (sp) as she squashed it!! She only seems interested in Kale and she did eat a softned pellet this morning aswell, se eating by herself aswell as taking bits from me. She is also not drinking. Ive tried putting a little ribena in her water which she normally likes but no interest is there anything else i can try?
Do you think she is stressed out from being indoors, as she is normally and outdoor bunny? Woohoo has just eaten something!! I havnt got anthing to put her in in the garden but my garden isnt massive. Does anyone think if this is a good idea? Ive got another bun (male) Would it be ok to let him out too? He has come into the front room and sniffed around daisy but hasnt shown any aggression towards her. Sorry for another long post.

any advice anyone? Been trying to get hold of my vet since 1 this afternoon. Dont know what to do ive got ribena, plain water, peppermint tea and nettle and sweet fennel tea in bowls and she is not interested in any of it she has eaten a bit of kale and grated carrot plus a bit of dandelion.

crazy daisy said:

any advice anyone? Been trying to get hold of my vet since 1 this afternoon. Dont know what to do ive got ribena, plain water, peppermint tea and nettle and sweet fennel tea in bowls and she is not interested in any of it she has eaten a bit of kale and grated carrot plus a bit of dandelion.

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I'm sorry to hear that - I think she needs to go back to see your vet and be assessed tonight. Is she pooing ok? Can you take her to see your vet this evening? She may need stronger meds or more meds?

prettylupin said:

I'm sorry to hear that - I think she needs to go back to see your vet and be assessed tonight. Is she pooing ok? Can you take her to see your vet this evening? She may need stronger meds or more meds?

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ETA if she's not getting enough fibre or food in you may have to start syringe feeding her with an appropriate formula such as Critical Care until her tummy and appetite picks up on its own. Tricky to balance this and the stress factor but you may have no choice if you can not get her to eat sufficient amounts by herself. Have you tried offering her some of her pellets softened in water in a bowl?

hello ive tried softening pellets in water she took one from me this morning but thats it she has eaten a little bit by herself but not interested in drinking i havent been able to syringe feed her fluids as ive been on my own today and she wouldnt let me do it by myself. Im just waiting for a friend to pick me up as ive got an appointment at 6.30. She was hopping around the lounge this afternoon and seemed happy enough, i know thats not always the best way to tell tho. im just so worried at the mo she has had abit of moisture as ive been soaking her veg in water and she ate some grated carrot. i will let you know how i get on. (fingers crossed) she hasnt pooed today but she done some softer poo during the night, not sure if it was ceocetrops sp! as she had squished it!

crazy daisy said:

hello ive tried softening pellets in water she took one from me this morning but thats it she has eaten a little bit by herself but not interested in drinking i havent been able to syringe feed her fluids as ive been on my own today and she wouldnt let me do it by myself. Im just waiting for a friend to pick me up as ive got an appointment at 6.30. She was hopping around the lounge this afternoon and seemed happy enough, i know thats not always the best way to tell tho. im just so worried at the mo she has had abit of moisture as ive been soaking her veg in water and she ate some grated carrot. i will let you know how i get on. (fingers crossed) she hasnt pooed today but she done some softer poo during the night, not sure if it was ceocetrops sp! as she had squished it!

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It does sound in that case as if her caecum is very upset and out of balance. She will need some fibre getting in to her somehow. It may be that she does not need fluids with the wet veg you have offered. I would ask the vet to give her some sub-cut fluids tonight to tide her overnight just in case she is dehydrated. Good luck

ok thanks will do! What is her caecum?

crazy daisy said:

ok thanks will do! What is her caecum?

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It's where she manufactures important nutrients - it is a specialised section of the hindgut which is full of beneficial bacteria and some not so beneficial ones - in perfect balance (ideally) and it deals with the smaller particles that pass through a bunny's gut, the long fibre particles pass out as waste droppings. Have you read this before:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html, and this one:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=670
It is about a chronic condition so not your bunny - but explains the caecum and when things go wrong.

I think tonight your vet needs to have a good look at your girl and her spay wound, feel her tummy and check her teeth as well to be on the safe side, and hopefully she will give her some fluids and any other medicines she considers appropriate. When my bun has ileus he benefits well from metclopramide (maxolon) as well as the zantac but this isn't appropriate for every case - which is why your vet needs to see her. Let us know how you get on.
Certainly some probiotics with that upset caecum is going to be important - more fibreplex I expect.

Alternatively she may just be completely stressed out.

Having recently been through something similar myself I have realised that *sometimes and on Vets advice* doing nothing for 12 or so hours is what is needed.

Good luck at the Vets

hi thanks for your advice jacks jane, i did think she may be stressed as she has been through alot this week, she was practicaly clinging to me in the vets i felt so bad . I took her back to the vets and she was given fluids under her skin (sub cut fluids?) and i was given some critical care aswell. My vet was giong to prescribe mexalon (sp) prettylupin but had run out so he said to see how she goes till tomorrow and go from there. She has been out in the lounge tonight and happily hopping about and done a massive poo!!!! i was so pleased it was soft which i think is what it was supposed to be like? Also she weed twice in her carrier on the way to the vets . It said it was statsis does this normally reoccur once a bun has it?

crazy daisy said:

hi thanks for your advice jacks jane, i did think she may be stressed as she has been through alot this week, she was practicaly clinging to me in the vets i felt so bad . I took her back to the vets and she was given fluids under her skin (sub cut fluids?) and i was given some critical care aswell. My vet was giong to prescribe mexalon (sp) prettylupin but had run out so he said to see how she goes till tomorrow and go from there. She has been out in the lounge tonight and happily hopping about and done a massive poo!!!! i was so pleased it was soft which i think is what it was supposed to be like? Also she weed twice in her carrier on the way to the vets . It said it was statsis does this normally reoccur once a bun has it?

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It sounds as though she's on the mend now

GI Stasis is usually a symptom of a problem rather than an 'illness' within its own right. Stress and pain are two triggers for GI stasis and Daisy has experienced both what with her op' and being at the Vet's etc....etc...

Hopefully now she's passed some poo she will eat a bit more and generally start to feel better. Her GI function may take another 24-48 hours to return to normal though