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Over-Vaccinating our bunnies??

Mackers

Wise Old Thumper
This is something that has worried me for some time and I'd like your opinions please. I do not intend for this to become a thread on 'I'd never forgive myself if I didn't vaccinate.......................etc'. I just want opinions on the reasons WHY we vaccinate at such regular and frequent intervals.

I DO NOT have my dogs annually vaccinated. They have their puppy jabs, a booster at a year old and then nothing else. I periodically have them titre tested but that in itself is not reliable since a low titre reading does not indicate low immunity. But it makes me feel better!

However, I continue to vaccinate my buns every 6 months for myxi and annually for VHD. And I have to ask myself why?

The following is taken from 'Dogs Today' magazine:-

QUOTE.........More than 30 years ago, Ronald D Schultz, chairman of the University of Wisconsin's Dept of Pathobiological Sciences and one of the foremost experts on dog and cat vaccines in the world, noted that immunity in adult dogs and cats lasted many years, and that there was no rhyme or reason to annual vaccination protocols.

Small Animal Practice (Current Veterinary Therapy, XI) published in 1992 notes that : "Annual vaccinations is a practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific validity or verification. Almost without exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual re-vaccination. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal".

More recently, the American Animal Hospital Association published Canine Vaccine Guidelines, Recommendations and Supporting Literature. This 2003 report notes "We now know that booster injections are of no value in dogs already immune and immunity from distemper and vaccinations last for a minimum of seven years based on challenge studies, and up to 15 years (a lifetime) based on antibody titre".

For decades now, veterinarians have known that cats and dogs inoculated with modified live virus vaccines create 'memory T-cells' that contain the code to fight off disease. If a vaccinated body is ever challenged again by that same type of infection, those memory T-cells swing into action and, using the old code, generate a vast reservoir of new antibodies to fight the infection and return the animal back to health.

Vets love their children but they have not been vaccinating their kids for measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox and polio every year, have they? Any why not? Simple: because they know that over-stimulating the immune system of any animal can trigger auto-immune disorders and increase (however slightly) the chance of a cancer occurring at the point of injection. And so vets do not over-vaccinate their own children and neither do any other doctors...........UNQUOTE


So my question is this.........if the above applies to humans, dogs and cats, why do we not apply the same rules to our bunnies? After all, the myxi vaccine is a modified pox virus. Why would it not create 'memory T-cells' in our rabbits in exactly the same way it does in dogs or humans? And the same goes for VHD?
 
I have been thinking the exact same thing recently, and it's one of the things that puts me off getting more bunnies. I truly believe that over-vaccinating is causing fragile health/poor immune systems. However, what's the alternative? :(
 
I am sure someone will be along very shortly to explain why the particular types of vaccines used for myxi do not create the same lifelong immunity - however as many of us know from experience the myxi jab immunity is actually slightly less than the six months currently recommended.

It may be to do with the fact that they are not actually injected with myxi itself but a closely related disease which gives cross immunity.

VHD I do not know about.
 
I suspect the same does apply to Rabbits. But there has been no research-eg titre testing etc. So frequency of vaccination advice is based on what has been tested-ie the duration of a recognised immune response I suppose :?
 
I have been thinking the exact same thing recently, and it's one of the things that puts me off getting more bunnies. I truly believe that over-vaccinating is causing fragile health/poor immune systems. However, what's the alternative? :(

I know! If I want to board my buns when I go on holiday, I HAVE to vaccinate them. That's one reason why I don't board my dogs and they come on holiday with me!

Every time that needle goes into one of my buns, I'm terrified that it's actually doing them more harm than good. But like you say, what's the alternative?
 
I have been thinking the exact same thing recently, and it's one of the things that puts me off getting more bunnies. I truly believe that over-vaccinating is causing fragile health/poor immune systems. However, what's the alternative? :(


Agree 100%
 
If you're in one of the special groups you get a new Flu vaccine every year. They all work differently. Tetanus lasts about 10 years. Some vaccines last a life time. There's no reason to believe that because one vaccine lasts 10 years that another would. Unless someone has done proper scientific tests then I would stick with the existing recommendations which are based on scientific tests. If vets thought the vaccines were doing more harm than good they would not recommend them. Despite what a lot of people think 99% of vets are in the profession because they like animals, not because they think it's an easy way of making money. People who believe otherwise are crazy conspiracy theorists.
 
If you're in one of the special groups you get a new Flu vaccine every year. They all work differently. Tetanus lasts about 10 years. Some vaccines last a life time. There's no reason to believe that because one vaccine lasts 10 years that another would. Unless someone has done proper scientific tests then I would stick with the existing recommendations which are based on scientific tests. If vets thought the vaccines were doing more harm than good they would not recommend them. Despite what a lot of people think 99% of vets are in the profession because they like animals, not because they think it's an easy way of making money. People who believe otherwise are crazy conspiracy theorists.

But with things like the flu virus - it constantly mutates so you HAVE to create a new vaccine each year. But do myxi and VHD mutate? Unfortunately, rabbits (or dogs and cats come to that) don't seem to be worthy of vaccine testing as the drug companies are making money out of people annually vaccinating.

I don't think anyone believes that the majority of vets are just in it 'for the money' - I certainly don't. I just wish there was more research done so that we would know for certain whether the vaccines were actually doing more harm than good. After all, look at all the publicity surrounding the MMR jab for children. There may not yet be a definitive answer but at least it's 'out there' in the public domain. Animals just don't get a look in.
 
If you're in one of the special groups you get a new Flu vaccine every year. They all work differently. Tetanus lasts about 10 years. Some vaccines last a life time. There's no reason to believe that because one vaccine lasts 10 years that another would. Unless someone has done proper scientific tests then I would stick with the existing recommendations which are based on scientific tests. If vets thought the vaccines were doing more harm than good they would not recommend them. Despite what a lot of people think 99% of vets are in the profession because they like animals, not because they think it's an easy way of making money. People who believe otherwise are crazy conspiracy theorists.

Thats a good point - different human vaccines/inncoculations (they are actually different in the way they work) last differing amounts of time. Yellow fever, tetanus, Rabies, Typhoid etc etc are all different (and very very confusing!!) and I am sure heaps of research has been done on them.
 
I have recently done a bit of reading about overvaccination in cats and dogs, and although there are 2 strongly differing opinions, many people agree that over vaccination does occur, but causes no adverse affects. I believe that the DHPPiL vaccine is given ( by most vets now) at 3 yearly intervals, the reason for this is because 3 years is the shortest time an animal has shown to lose its immunity. This means that even if your animal is immune for 7 years, some aren't and this is the 'easiest' way to cover all dogs. The PiL vaccine is given the other 2 years in between because they are diseases that mutate or immunity doesn't last for as long. i would assume that rabbit vaccines cover the same theory.
There are also people who believe that vaccines cause auto- immune disease, but often the illness is very common within specific breeds, which would indicate to me it is genetic rather than caused by an external influence. A more likely theory would be it can act as a trigger, but there are also indications that things like bites and cuts can also trigger the problem.
Myself, I suspect the fact that more people are showing signs of auto- immune disease and allergies say over vaccination isn't the cause, it would be only natural that our closest animal friends would follow the trend. Many scientists think that over cleanliness is the cause of this, and people are not being given the chance to develop a resistance to allergens/ germs.

I would suspect it is more improtant to vaccinate rabbits because the diseases can be carried in a wild population, while with dogs and cats- as long as about 70% of the population is vaccinated there is less chance of there being an epidemic.

Honestly, I don't think we will ever know the truth because it will be very hard to find somebody, who is unbiased, to fund the research. Most of what I have read has been very one sided.
 
I have recently done a bit of reading about overvaccination in cats and dogs, and although there are 2 strongly differing opinions, many people agree that over vaccination does occur, but causes no adverse affects. I believe that the DHPPiL vaccine is given ( by most vets now) at 3 yearly intervals, the reason for this is because 3 years is the shortest time an animal has shown to lose its immunity. This means that even if your animal is immune for 7 years, some aren't and this is the 'easiest' way to cover all dogs. The PiL vaccine is given the other 2 years in between because they are diseases that mutate or immunity doesn't last for as long. i would assume that rabbit vaccines cover the same theory.
There are also people who believe that vaccines cause auto- immune disease, but often the illness is very common within specific breeds, which would indicate to me it is genetic rather than caused by an external influence. A more likely theory would be it can act as a trigger, but there are also indications that things like bites and cuts can also trigger the problem.
Myself, I suspect the fact that more people are showing signs of auto- immune disease and allergies say over vaccination isn't the cause, it would be only natural that our closest animal friends would follow the trend. Many scientists think that over cleanliness is the cause of this, and people are not being given the chance to develop a resistance to allergens/ germs.

I would suspect it is more improtant to vaccinate rabbits because the diseases can be carried in a wild population, while with dogs and cats- as long as about 70% of the population is vaccinated there is less chance of there being an epidemic.

Honestly, I don't think we will ever know the truth because it will be very hard to find somebody, who is unbiased, to fund the research. Most of what I have read has been very one sided.

Sadly Rabbits seldom benefit from funding for research into medications/vaccines. I guess thats why so few drugs are licenced for Rabbits :cry:
 
I would suspect it is more improtant to vaccinate rabbits because the diseases can be carried in a wild population, while with dogs and cats- as long as about 70% of the population is vaccinated there is less chance of there being an epidemic.

This is an excellent point - and with myxi in particular being insect-borne, it's a much higher risk for our little ones.

The thing about research though is that it's a double edged sword...properly verified research at the current time is going to involve laboratory animals, kept solely for the purpose of innoculating, blood testing, and possibly in some cases deliberately introducing the infectious agents to them :(
 
This is an excellent point - and with myxi in particular being insect-borne, it's a much higher risk for our little ones.

The thing about research though is that it's a double edged sword...properly verified research at the current time is going to involve laboratory animals, kept solely for the purpose of innoculating, blood testing, and possibly in some cases deliberately introducing the infectious agents to them :(

Well we know how we got the VHD Vaccine :cry:
But what would be the alternative :?
 
This is an excellent point - and with myxi in particular being insect-borne, it's a much higher risk for our little ones.

The thing about research though is that it's a double edged sword...properly verified research at the current time is going to involve laboratory animals, kept solely for the purpose of innoculating, blood testing, and possibly in some cases deliberately introducing the infectious agents to them :(

I agree, I think in most cases they will be introduced to the agent and then culled afterwards, regardless as to whether they are still immune.

It would be such a huge 'experiment' which would have to run over years, it would cost a fortune. The amount of variables to be included for a proper study would be exhorbitant
 
I sometimes wonder about the vaccines too also with the excessive cleaning, i know people who have buns for years and not really looked after them, i.e poor diet, not regular cleaning, definately never vaccinated and their rabbits have lived years with no health issues:? Probably not happy buns though.
 
Sadly Rabbits seldom benefit from funding for research into medications/vaccines. I guess thats why so few drugs are licenced for Rabbits :cry:

I am optimistic, Jane, that as rabbits get more popular and people become aware of general care and acknowledge them as being on par with dogs and cats, we will see an improvement in medical care.
 
The recommendation for annual vaccination has always been because that's how long they tested it. It's great dogs can now be vaccinated less often but that's the result of studies that take years, you can't state one vacc lasts a lifetime without waiting a lifetime to test it :)

The same may apply to rabbit vacc but I won't be changing my routine until that's been tested. People still need boosters for some vaccs too :)

For myxi at least there is anecdotal evidence that boosters are necessary. With rabbits that have had a past jab but not up to date getting myxi where as jabbed rabbits getting the milder nodular form.

Vaccs also rely on a good immune system to give protection, everyone knows how good rabbits are at hiding illness. Even if only one jab is necessary, having a couple would help ensure full immunity is conveyed.
 
But with things like the flu virus - it constantly mutates so you HAVE to create a new vaccine each year. But do myxi and VHD mutate? Unfortunately, rabbits (or dogs and cats come to that) don't seem to be worthy of vaccine testing as the drug companies are making money out of people annually vaccinating.

I don't think anyone believes that the majority of vets are just in it 'for the money' - I certainly don't. I just wish there was more research done so that we would know for certain whether the vaccines were actually doing more harm than good. After all, look at all the publicity surrounding the MMR jab for children. There may not yet be a definitive answer but at least it's 'out there' in the public domain. Animals just don't get a look in.

Unfortunately testing involves giving some rabbits the vaccine and not giving some the vaccine and then exposing them all to myxi. They're usually all slaughtered afterwards anyway. So personally I don't really want any more testing to be done.
 
I sometimes wonder about the vaccines too also with the excessive cleaning, i know people who have buns for years and not really looked after them, i.e poor diet, not regular cleaning, definately never vaccinated and their rabbits have lived years with no health issues:? Probably not happy buns though.

I know plenty of un-vaccinated, un-neutered rabbits that weren't cleaned out every day and they all seemed extremely healthy and happy
 
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