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Soft Poo's - Advice please

NLENG2000

NLENG2000

Mama Doe
Well my bunnies certainly are giving me the run around this week. Alfie is slowly recovering from his Stasis. He is eating and pooing more, but still not back to 100%.

One of my other bunnies now has tummy problems. Last week I noticed some mucus around a cluster of poo. I mentioned this to the vet when I was in there with Alfie and he gave me some fibreplex to give them both as they share a hutch and litter tray so I don't know which one has the problem. They have been having this now since last Saturday.

When we cleaned the litter tray out last night there was a massive clump of very soft poo - not watery but not far off, with a few normal pellets attached to it.

I searched on here for some advice and the consensus of opinion seems to be to take away pellets and veg for a few days and restrict them to hay and water. Does anyone have any advice on how long I should do this for? I felt so mean not giving them pellets this morning - they are now sulking!

Apart from the upset tum, they seem fine in themselves, chomping on hay, drinking, lots of poos and wees.
 
NLENG2000 said:
Well my bunnies certainly are giving me the run around this week. Alfie is slowly recovering from his Stasis. He is eating and pooing more, but still not back to 100%.

One of my other bunnies now has tummy problems. Last week I noticed some mucus around a cluster of poo. I mentioned this to the vet when I was in there with Alfie and he gave me some fibreplex to give them both as they share a hutch and litter tray so I don't know which one has the problem. They have been having this now since last Saturday.

When we cleaned the litter tray out last night there was a massive clump of very soft poo - not watery but not far off, with a few normal pellets attached to it.

I searched on here for some advice and the consensus of opinion seems to be to take away pellets and veg for a few days and restrict them to hay and water. Does anyone have any advice on how long I should do this for? I felt so mean not giving them pellets this morning - they are now sulking!

Apart from the upset tum, they seem fine in themselves, chomping on hay, drinking, lots of poos and wees.
Click to expand...

Yep I would feed just hay and water for a few days, or for as long as it takes to clear up the abnormal poop or excess caecotrophs. Provided they both like hay that is. To make it nicer for them you could offer a variety of hays - free choice so they can really tuck into their favourite. A good way to allay the guilt is to get some dried herbs like the Naturals/Burns ranges (ones without added cereals only) and sprinkle a handful on top of the hay at the time of the day you'd normally feed the pellets. Pampered piggies does some nice treat bags of herbs/flowers too. I don't feed pellets at all but mine always get a nice handful of dried mixed herbs morning and evening on top of the hay in their litter tray and they love it :D

If the poo doesn't clear up after a week and/or buns still don't look right - then I would take a sample to the vet and also take bunny/bunnies back as it could be an 'infective' agent such as coccidia or something.

With your recovering stasis bun how long did he have his gut motility drugs for? In buns prone to this it is often a good idea to continue the meds (with vets permission) for several days after they recover to reestablish gut function properly. We always do 5 days of drugs here, and even then things take another week to get back to normal. Ileus and neuro control of the gut is quite persistent and needs lots of encouragement and fibre and fluids to get it all back up to speed. I would actually suggest some freshly washed herbs/carrot tops (things that rarely cause upset) for both your buns, even though you are laying off the pellets, in my experience it is the pellets more likely to cause the upset than certain greens, and hydration in a post-stasis bun is very important. I hope they both feel better soon. :)
 
prettylupin said:
Yep I would feed just hay and water for a few days, or for as long as it takes to clear up the abnormal poop or excess caecotrophs. Provided they both like hay that is. To make it nicer for them you could offer a variety of hays - free choice so they can really tuck into their favourite. A good way to allay the guilt is to get some dried herbs like the Naturals/Burns ranges (ones without added cereals only) and sprinkle a handful on top of the hay at the time of the day you'd normally feed the pellets. Pampered piggies does some nice treat bags of herbs/flowers too. I don't feed pellets at all but mine always get a nice handful of dried mixed herbs morning and evening on top of the hay in their litter tray and they love it :D

If the poo doesn't clear up after a week and/or buns still don't look right - then I would take a sample to the vet and also take bunny/bunnies back as it could be an 'infective' agent such as coccidia or something.

With your recovering stasis bun how long did he have his gut motility drugs for? In buns prone to this it is often a good idea to continue the meds (with vets permission) for several days after they recover to reestablish gut function properly. We always do 5 days of drugs here, and even then things take another week to get back to normal. Ileus and neuro control of the gut is quite persistent and needs lots of encouragement and fibre and fluids to get it all back up to speed. I would actually suggest some freshly washed herbs/carrot tops (things that rarely cause upset) for both your buns, even though you are laying off the pellets, in my experience it is the pellets more likely to cause the upset than certain greens, and hydration in a post-stasis bun is very important. I hope they both feel better soon. :)
Click to expand...

Ok, so I will keep them on hay for a few days and I will go and get some different hay and dried herbs for them to try tonight after work. Is readigrass ok for them too as I have some of this? The odd poos havent been in their tray every night it's been a week since we saw anything odd until last night so I assumed the fibreplex was doing the trick, but last night was worse than anything I'd seen before.

As for Alfie, he only had two lots of gut mobility drugs. One at 9am Wednesday morning and one at 4pm in the afternoon. We gave him pineapple juice wednesday night and throughout yesterday in small doses plus he was drinking a fair amount of water. He also had four lots of sub-q fluids, two at the same time as the gut mobility drugs another one at 9pm wednesday evening and another one yesterday morning. But the vets didnt offer any ongoing treatment. He is pooing now but they are smaller and harder than normal. He seems to store everything up for ages and then they all come out at once while he is eating (but this is normal for him he has always done this). I will get some carrot tops and herbs this evening for him, but I will have to make them into a smoothie as he has no front teeth. Is there anything veg wise I should avoid for the next few days?
 
NLENG2000 said:
Ok, so I will keep them on hay for a few days and I will go and get some different hay and dried herbs for them to try tonight after work. Is readigrass ok for them too as I have some of this? The odd poos havent been in their tray every night it's been a week since we saw anything odd until last night so I assumed the fibreplex was doing the trick, but last night was worse than anything I'd seen before.

As for Alfie, he only had two lots of gut mobility drugs. One at 9am Wednesday morning and one at 4pm in the afternoon. We gave him pineapple juice wednesday night and throughout yesterday in small doses plus he was drinking a fair amount of water. He also had four lots of sub-q fluids, two at the same time as the gut mobility drugs another one at 9pm wednesday evening and another one yesterday morning. But the vets didnt offer any ongoing treatment. He is pooing now but they are smaller and harder than normal. He seems to store everything up for ages and then they all come out at once while he is eating (but this is normal for him he has always done this). I will get some carrot tops and herbs this evening for him, but I will have to make them into a smoothie as he has no front teeth. Is there anything veg wise I should avoid for the next few days?
Click to expand...

This is just my experience....but I find any more than 3 days of Fibreplex can cause my stasis bun to produce excess caecs. his guts are very well balanced and it almost overbalances him (but this could well be just my bunny).

I personally don't give or agree with giving pineapple juice. But this is just my opinion. Gut motility for me is inextricably linked with caecal flora and I personally feel that fruit juices are just too high in sugar to be giving to rabbits already struggling to maintain gut motility as it just upsets the caecal flora more. My vets never advise it. The only time I have ever given fruit juice is diluted down and given with Baytril (as it tastes so horrible).

I would personally avoid readigrass if your bun is still showing signs of hypomotility - it tends to be very dehydrated and he actually needs more hydration in his guts, not something sucking out the moisture even more. I would be inclined to syringe feed him some oral fluids if he will take them - if it causes too much stress then leave it. I would use plain boiled cooled water or stewed and cooled herbal tea - mine love the Twinings fennel and nettle tea when they are poorly. When Nino had his stasis a few wks ago he stuck his head in the mug of herbal tea and drank it straight :D

If you chop the herbs/carrot tops nice and small can he still not pick them up with his lips?
If his droppings continue to get smaller and drier then I would take him back for some more meds and potentially some more sub-cut fluids - it sounds to me like he is not out of the woods fully yet.
I'd avoid any sugary fruit, carrot roots, cabbage, spring greens and swiss chard (all things in my experience that can cause upset if bunny's tummy is already delicate).
I would stick to fibrous stuff - apple leaves, fresh herbs - woodier ones are even better at this stage - thyme, marjoram, rosemary etc. celery tops, pea tops, carrot tops and maybe some radish tops - but not too much at once, and be careful with things they have not had before - I would also offer them freshly washed and still damp.
 
prettylupin said:
This is just my experience....but I find any more than 3 days of Fibreplex can cause my stasis bun to produce excess caecs. his guts are very well balanced and it almost overbalances him (but this could well be just my bunny).

I personally don't give or agree with giving pineapple juice. But this is just my opinion. Gut motility for me is inextricably linked with caecal flora and I personally feel that fruit juices are just too high in sugar to be giving to rabbits already struggling to maintain gut motility as it just upsets the caecal flora more. My vets never advise it. The only time I have ever given fruit juice is diluted down and given with Baytril (as it tastes so horrible).

I would personally avoid readigrass if your bun is still showing signs of hypomotility - it tends to be very dehydrated and he actually needs more hydration in his guts, not something sucking out the moisture even more. I would be inclined to syringe feed him some oral fluids if he will take them - if it causes too much stress then leave it. I would use plain boiled cooled water or stewed and cooled herbal tea - mine love the Twinings fennel and nettle tea when they are poorly. When Nino had his stasis a few wks ago he stuck his head in the mug of herbal tea and drank it straight :D

If you chop the herbs/carrot tops nice and small can he still not pick them up with his lips?
If his droppings continue to get smaller and drier then I would take him back for some more meds and potentially some more sub-cut fluids - it sounds to me like he is not out of the woods fully yet.
I'd avoid any sugary fruit, carrot roots, cabbage, spring greens and swiss chard (all things in my experience that can cause upset if bunny's tummy is already delicate).
I would stick to fibrous stuff - apple leaves, fresh herbs - woodier ones are even better at this stage - thyme, marjoram, rosemary etc. celery tops, pea tops, carrot tops and maybe some radish tops - but not too much at once, and be careful with things they have not had before - I would also offer them freshly washed and still damp.
Click to expand...

Would you suggest I stop the Fibreplex now then - they have almost finished anyway? The readigrass was for my bun with the soft poo (Twix or Star) not Alfie who has just had the statis. Would it be suitable for them as an extra to the Hay?

I will keep an eye on Alfies poos today. He doesnt like being being syringe fed but we have found a way to do it that doesnt stress him too much. So if the herbal tea doesn't work then we may try to get more water in him this way, although he is drinking water from his bowl on a regular basis. I will also go and get some of the herbs/carrot tops/celery tops you suggest. He does find this sort of thing difficult to pick up with his mouth so would it be a problem if I blended it with some water - would it lose some of it's nutritional value?

I really appreciate your help - thank you so much.
 
NLENG2000 said:
Would you suggest I stop the Fibreplex now then - they have almost finished anyway? The readigrass was for my bun with the soft poo (Twix or Star) not Alfie who has just had the statis. Would it be suitable for them as an extra to the Hay?

I will keep an eye on Alfies poos today. He doesnt like being being syringe fed but we have found a way to do it that doesnt stress him too much. So if the herbal tea doesn't work then we may try to get more water in him this way, although he is drinking water from his bowl on a regular basis. I will also go and get some of the herbs/carrot tops/celery tops you suggest. He does find this sort of thing difficult to pick up with his mouth so would it be a problem if I blended it with some water - would it lose some of it's nutritional value?

I really appreciate your help - thank you so much.
Click to expand...

Readigrass is fine in addition to normal hay, just not too often. I do feed it occasionally but not daily. It is high in fibre but some members on here have had problems with it causing upset. I have never done so but my buns drink a lot whilst eating it.
As for the fibreplex - I think this is something you need to discuss with your vet really.
If Alfie is self drinking sufficiently then he probably doesn't need oral fluids by syringe at all - I wasn't aware how well he was in terms of self-feeding. He sounds like he's doing ok in that respect.
The thing with the veg is that blending it too much might break down the long strand fibres which are actually quite helpful in gut motility. Could you not just chop it finely instead? I'm sure whatever you do will be fine. They do say that heat produced with fast blenders can destroy some beneficial enzymes in vegetable matter - which is why for us humans the slow mechanical juicers are better than the centrifugal ones. But to be honest I have no idea how relevant that is to rabbits. All I know that is large particle fibrous tissue is essential for gut motility.
Hope that helps a bit - I think it's just a question of monitoring them and upping the fibre intake as much as possible - especially lots and lots of hay? How does Alfie eat his hay if he can't eat leafy greens?
 
prettylupin said:
Readigrass is fine in addition to normal hay, just not too often. I do feed it occasionally but not daily. It is high in fibre but some members on here have had problems with it causing upset. I have never done so but my buns drink a lot whilst eating it.
As for the fibreplex - I think this is something you need to discuss with your vet really.
If Alfie is self drinking sufficiently then he probably doesn't need oral fluids by syringe at all - I wasn't aware how well he was in terms of self-feeding. He sounds like he's doing ok in that respect.
The thing with the veg is that blending it too much might break down the long strand fibres which are actually quite helpful in gut motility. Could you not just chop it finely instead? I'm sure whatever you do will be fine. They do say that heat produced with fast blenders can destroy some beneficial enzymes in vegetable matter - which is why for us humans the slow mechanical juicers are better than the centrifugal ones. But to be honest I have no idea how relevant that is to rabbits. All I know that is large particle fibrous tissue is essential for gut motility.
Hope that helps a bit - I think it's just a question of monitoring them and upping the fibre intake as much as possible - especially lots and lots of hay? How does Alfie eat his hay if he can't eat leafy greens?
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, perhaps adding readigrass when they have tummy problems is not the best idea, I will stick to the hay and try and get some alternative varieties for them this evening.

I will try him with chopped up herbs but he really struggles with it and ends up leaving it. If it doesnt work I will go back to the blender, at least he is getting nutrients which may help. I'm afriad I can't get Alfie to eat hay at all. I have tried different varieties, chopping it up into small pieces etc and he just turns his back on it. I do add some to the veggie smoothie I make for him but it's not a massive quantity.
 
You somehow need to get Alfie eating more hay even though he is a gummy bunny, otherwise he is really going to be at risk of getting stasis recurrently.
Has he never eaten hay? How about before he lost his teeth? How are his back teeth? Gummy buns should be able to pick up hay with their lips, are you sure he hasn't got painful molar spurs (cheek teeth involvement is common with incisor malocclusion) that are putting him off eating hay? Side-to-side chewing motion of hay eating is obviously a different and potentially more painful technique than just crushing pellets up - I'm wondering if his molar teeth are responsible for his hay distaste?
How many pellets does he get? It may also be that he is too full of pellets to want to try eating hay?
 
prettylupin said:
You somehow need to get Alfie eating more hay even though he is a gummy bunny, otherwise he is really going to be at risk of getting stasis recurrently.
Has he never eaten hay? How about before he lost his teeth? How are his back teeth? Gummy buns should be able to pick up hay with their lips, are you sure he hasn't got painful molar spurs (cheek teeth involvement is common with incisor malocclusion) that are putting him off eating hay? Side-to-side chewing motion of hay eating is obviously a different and potentially more painful technique than just crushing pellets up - I'm wondering if his molar teeth are responsible for his hay distaste?
How many pellets does he get? It may also be that he is too full of pellets to want to try eating hay?
Click to expand...

I don't know his full history as I am fostering him for Fat Fluffs and he came to us with no front teeth so dont know what he was like before. He was neutered when he came in (about 3 months ago now) and a dental was done at the same time and the vet said then it is only a matter of time before his other teeth fall out as they are wonkey and uneven. His teeth were checked on Saturday as part of a general check up and he was happy enough with them then (well as happy as you can be with the state they are in but there isnt anything more that can be done for them).

I am sure his teeth are responsibe for his hay distaste , who knows how long he was in trouble with them. But I have no idea what else to try. I only give him a small amount of pellets at a time which are broken down into three to make it easier for him to eat, but if he doesnt have enough he is constantly bothering us for more food - which we dont give in to, but he still doesnt eat the hay. If you've got any ideas what else we can try I am all ears as I want him to have a healthy diet.

We have tried several different varieties of hay, cutting it up into small pieces and crushing hay cubes up. As I said I add some to his veggie smoothie which he gets a couple of times a day but it is not a large enough amount I know.
 
Oh I see - very complicated case! I had no idea sorry :oops: In that case you may find a long-term fibre probiotic might be helpful? Protexin do one I think. I think Liz (Hugo's there) has tried it? What results she got I'm not sure. I expect someone like Liz or Jane with lots of experience of severe dental buns will be better placed to advise you than me - I have no experience of this and everything I say is purely theroetical! I'm just familiar with stasis buns that's all. Sorry I can't help any further. I'm sure you're doing your best. :)
 
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