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Ted an Petal
10-09-2009, 02:01 PM
Do many people do this? i never do it to mine not even when i'm cutting their nails. i do remember i could do it with one of my childhood buns but i wouldn't do to ted, theo or petal.

steph182
10-09-2009, 02:14 PM
I could do it to mable, she wasn't bothered whatsoever. I'd just lay her down on my knees and she'd stay there.

I have a feeling if I tried it with Charlie, I would be scratched to death. Plus he's bigger thanmy knee's for me to lay him down :lol:

LolasMummy
10-09-2009, 02:28 PM
Lola hates it so we dont ever do it.

Desmond is happy on his back and in any position really.

Crystal butterfly
10-09-2009, 02:38 PM
Misty is ok being placed on his back in my arms i do this when clipping his nails, Crystal however starts breathing quite fast and goes abit panicy on her back, the vet made me place her on her back in my arms one time and Crystal stared at me with such hurtful eyes as if to say 'why you doing this to me your meant to love me' bless her

Angie65
10-09-2009, 03:09 PM
I used to do it all the time until I found out about trancing:oops::oops:

I only do it on Calel now - when I clip his nails. I can't do it any other way as scared he will take a chunk out of my face:oops:

ZakuraRabbit
10-09-2009, 04:08 PM
I do.
Its about the only way I can cut their back claws since they tend to retract their feet under their bellies:roll:

DemiS
10-09-2009, 04:53 PM
Do many people do this? i never do it to mine not even when i'm cutting their nails. i do remember i could do it with one of my childhood buns but i wouldn't do to ted, theo or petal.

Yep, nearly everyday.
My rabbits are used to it because I used to show them. I have to do it now anyway, to brush them underneith, clip nails and check teeth. Usually every day. You'd be suprised how tangled short haired buns get on their armpits and between their back legs :roll:

peppa
10-09-2009, 05:04 PM
I am glad you asked this as i was wondering the same thing.
Georgie and Octavia dont mind once they are in position and Octavia goes totally asleep and stays for ages, but i was worried it wasnt a good thing to do
Peppa wont ever let me do it x
I have looked at websites about bunny massage too and wondered if anyone tried it but you have to pick your bunny up and put them in your lap. All mine dont want to be hastled. Although when i got octavia and was doing it she was clicking her teeth like she liked it so dont know if it is worth persevering.
If there was a way to get them onto my lap without them running off and would realise it was going to be pleasant.

Hugo's There
10-09-2009, 05:29 PM
I would never put a bunny on its back :?

isla
10-09-2009, 05:31 PM
I have in the past, one of mine got gaffa tape stuck between his front legs and there was no way I was going to get it off him. Other than that, I don't think I would, as I have read that when on their backs they are in a deep state of fear, and that doesn't sound too nice.

DemiS
10-09-2009, 06:08 PM
I have in the past, one of mine got gaffa tape stuck between his front legs and there was no way I was going to get it off him. Other than that, I don't think I would, as I have read that when on their backs they are in a deep state of fear, and that doesn't sound too nice.

Surely if done daily they would get used to it though?
Harley is fine on his back. Will happily eat dandelion leaves, (I do turn him back to normall before he has chance to swallow). I'm sure if he was petrified he wouldn't.

prettylupin
10-09-2009, 06:09 PM
Tonic immobility or 'trancing' is a fear response for rabbits and will put them under stress at some level no matter how much they are used to it. For these reasons I would only use it if absolutely necessary - to clean blocked inguinal glands or quickly check incisor teeth or genitals/bottoms in detail, and for a few seconds at most. I find it possible to clip nails and check teeth and bottoms as a daily thing with bunny sat normally on my lap.

Hugo's There
10-09-2009, 06:09 PM
Surely if done daily they would get used to it though?
Harley is fine on his back. Will happily eat dandelion leaves, (I do turn him back to normall before he has chance to swallow). I'm sure if he was petrified he wouldn't.

Its bad enough putting them on their backs, but to feed them in this position is just dangerous, sorry :shock:

Jaysmonkey
10-09-2009, 06:12 PM
Lola is always on her back (should probably add that i don't always turn her on her back she does it herself sometimes), and whilst she's laid there I blow raspberries on her belly, she couldn't care less. I even kiss her feet and she's not bothered. I think she's used to it because i do it to clear matts from her bum/tum area and obviously do her nails.

Max I can't do that to. I wouldn't have a face left :P

Brian hates being picked up but loves cuddles and lies on his back when i rub his ears with no problem, I've only done it in order to sex him though!

Lenny again would kick me in the face most probably!

*Spider*
10-09-2009, 06:14 PM
I only do it with Ghostie... she's constantly flopping on her back..... :?

Santa
10-09-2009, 06:15 PM
Surely if done daily they would get used to it though?
Harley is fine on his back. Will happily eat dandelion leaves, (I do turn him back to normall before he has chance to swallow). I'm sure if he was petrified he wouldn't.

It's just not true I'm afraid, it's been proven scientifically that rabbits who are put on their backs like this show a huge increase in stress hormones. Note: this is different to a rabbit who chooses to lie on its back - that is an unforced event and entirely different!

Basically their survival instinct tells them that if they are on their back, they are about to be carried off to be eaten...so they go into a trance-like state (it's known as trancing or tonic immobility). The purpose is so that the predator then loosens its grip, giving the bun a chance to flip and escape quickly. Because it's based on survival instinct, it is very stressful to do this to your bun. I think it can be a useful technique as a one-off but it has been proven that far from being relaxed (even if they appear to be!), rabbits are actually incredibly stressed when they are handled like this and the stress hormones remain high for some time after the event. It's just not good for them and to do it regularly is very unkind to a bun :(

isla
10-09-2009, 06:17 PM
Tonic immobility or 'trancing' is a fear response for rabbits and will put them under stress at some level no matter how much they are used to it. For these reasons I would only use it if absolutely necessary - to clean blocked inguinal glands or quickly check incisor teeth or genitals/bottoms in detail, and for a few seconds at most. I find it possible to clip nails and check teeth and bottoms as a daily thing with bunny sat normally on my lap.

Thats pretty much what I read somewhere, and the reason they let people do anything to them whilse they are on their backs is that they are too scared to move. Scared stiff as the saying goes!

Mine don't like being touched at all, so I check their bums by lying on the floor/ or sticking my hand between their back legs, bit gross but I would feel any stickies/wet bums. The vet checks teeth and clips nails for me.

prettylupin
10-09-2009, 06:21 PM
Thats pretty much what I read somewhere, and the reason they let people do anything to them whilse they are on their backs is that they are too scared to move. Scared stiff as the saying goes!

Mine don't like being touched at all, so I check their bums by lying on the floor/ or sticking my hand between their back legs, bit gross but I would feel any stickies/wet bums. The vet checks teeth and clips nails for me.

Yep pretty much do the same - the 'finger test'!! Yummmy! :oops::lol: I also find that whilst grooming you can actually acess the genital and bottom area by bending over and looking under tail and bottom with bun sat on your lap. Nail clipping I find easiest just picking their paws up one at a time :D
If I do have to turn them over for something special I tend to avoid trancing them and instead lie them just tilted back into my tummy but fully with it and get my OH to do the check or vice versa. I really don't like full on trancing - it is a real 'stress' state and will avoid it like the plague.

peppa
10-09-2009, 06:29 PM
What about the bunny massage i mentioned, is that ok, not laid on their backs just massage down their back etc while they lie on your lap. Does anyone do this and do they have any tips xx

*Spider*
10-09-2009, 06:31 PM
How can you check a dirty bottom if they're sat normally on your lap?

Hugo's There
10-09-2009, 06:31 PM
How can you check a dirty bottom if they're sat normally on your lap?

Pick them up :?

DemiS
10-09-2009, 06:33 PM
Pick them up :?

What about brushing the fur on the armpits, and between the legs?
When you look at Flash, the fur between his legs dosen't look matted. If you blow into his fur, you can see loads of knots.

Hugo's There
10-09-2009, 06:39 PM
I have never turned my fluffly buns on their backs to brush them, I just lift each leg in turn to get underneath :?

DemiS
10-09-2009, 06:43 PM
I have never turned my fluffly buns on their backs to brush them, I just lift each leg in turn to get underneath :?

My buns would never let me lift their legs high enough to do it properly :?

isla
10-09-2009, 06:50 PM
My buns would never let me lift their legs high enough to do it properly :?

Are your long haired? I've never seen a knot anywhere on a short haired bun.

Maybe you could tilt your rabbits back as pretty lupin said a few posts up :)

sidereus7
10-09-2009, 06:53 PM
I don't like trancing my buns, but I have done it a couple times to Milo to quickly trim nails.

It makes me wonder, though, which is worse: trancing a bunny for 30 seconds or struggling with a stubborn bunny for 15 minutes trying to clip nails?

I find with rabbits, you always have to go with the lesser of two evils. Milo lets me trim his front feet with no fight. But as soon as I even dream of touching his back feet, and he twists his head and "flicker feets" me.

Like when I was trying to give Eddison Baytril, he wouldn't take it orally. So while I didn't like doing it, the lesser evil was injecting in the back of his neck. There, I risk sterile abscesses, but it was better than stressing him out with 1.25mL of oral Baytril for half an hour.

I can't even imagine how my buns would let me check their teeth without trancing for a few seconds. :shock:

isla
10-09-2009, 06:57 PM
I don't like trancing my buns, but I have done it a couple times to Milo to quickly trim nails.

It makes me wonder, though, which is worse: trancing a bunny for 30 seconds or struggling with a stubborn bunny for 15 minutes trying to clip nails?

I find with rabbits, you always have to go with the lesser of two evils. Milo lets me trim his front feet with no fight. But as soon as I even dream of touching his back feet, and he twists his head and "flicker feets" me.

Like when I was trying to give Eddison Baytril, he wouldn't take it orally. So while I didn't like doing it, the lesser evil was injecting in the back of his neck. There, I risk sterile abscesses, but it was better than stressing him out with 1.25mL of oral Baytril for half an hour.

I can't even imagine how my buns would let me check their teeth without trancing for a few seconds. :shock:

I'm lucky with nails and teeth, my vet sorts it all out everytime we go. I know I should be checking their teeth more often, but as mine have yet to have a problem with their front teeth and you can't see the back ones anyway, I don't see the point stressing them.

DemiS
10-09-2009, 06:59 PM
Are your long haired? I've never seen a knot anywhere on a short haired bun.

Maybe you could tilt your rabbits back as pretty lupin said a few posts up :)

Flash isn't really longhaired, but maybe slightly longer than some buns.
And it would be too hard to just tilt him :lol: It's hard enough when he is laid down!

DemiS
10-09-2009, 07:02 PM
I can't even imagine how my buns would let me check their teeth without trancing for a few seconds. :shock:

Same. If I touch Flash or Harley's nose or mouth, they just move backwards, go sideways, or move their heads.

sidereus7
10-09-2009, 07:03 PM
I'm lucky with nails and teeth, my vet sorts it all out every time we go. I know I should be checking their teeth more often, but as mine have yet to have a problem with their front teeth and you can't see the back ones anyway, I don't see the point stressing them.

Certainly, that makes sense. :) I think our goals are the same, and that's to stress our rabbits to a minimum, as they react so poorly to stress. I'm just wondering if, sometimes, trancing can be the lesser of two evils. If I ever find a less stressful way to do something for my buns, I will definitely do it that way.

sidereus7
10-09-2009, 07:06 PM
Flash isn't really longhaired, but maybe slightly longer than some buns.
And it would be too hard to just tilt him :lol: It's hard enough when he is laid down!

I've trained Milo to be ok with me just lifting up his front end. I put one hand around his chest/front legs and lift him off the ground, while he keeps his back legs on the floor. I'll normally hug his back to my chest to keep him feeling safe. I got him used to this by picking his front up a little during a long pet session, petting him that way for a minute, then giving him some basil. Now he's very used to it, and it lets me comb underneath his fluffy belly. :)

DemiS
10-09-2009, 07:10 PM
I've trained Milo to be ok with me just lifting up his front end. I put one hand around his chest/front legs and lift him off the ground, while he keeps his back legs on the floor. I'll normally hug his back to my chest to keep him feeling safe. I got him used to this by picking his front up a little during a long pet session, petting him that way for a minute, then giving him some basil. Now he's very used to it, and it lets me comb underneath his fluffy belly. :)

Yes but trying to get right in, and seperating the fur and boy bits to try brush is very hard that way :lol:

isla
10-09-2009, 07:12 PM
Yes but trying to get right in, and seperating the fur and boy bits to try brush is very hard that way :lol:

I think it'll just take a bit of pratice, but once you and the rabbit get used to it, it will become easier. And you wont have to needlessly stress you rabbit.

DemiS
10-09-2009, 07:15 PM
I think it'll just take a bit of pratice, but once you and the rabbit get used to it, it will become easier. And you wont have to needlessly stress you rabbit.

I'll give it a go then :)

isla
10-09-2009, 07:19 PM
I'll give it a go then :)

Cool, let us know how it goes!

prettylupin
10-09-2009, 07:46 PM
I've trained Milo to be ok with me just lifting up his front end. I put one hand around his chest/front legs and lift him off the ground, while he keeps his back legs on the floor. I'll normally hug his back to my chest to keep him feeling safe.

This is how my vet checks my bunnies underside during a routine exam. He stands them up on their back legs holding their front legs up in the air and against his chest on the exam table, and then leans over and checks down and around the genitals. Both my buns tolerate this very well. I can't believe I haven't thought of this at home! :roll::lol:

hurricanhoney
10-09-2009, 07:50 PM
I lean them back to check bums while they in my lap but they are not totally on their back.

vee-jay
10-09-2009, 07:56 PM
my rabbit is short haired and sometimes gets matts between his back legs. I have to either brush them out or cut them. I couldnt do this if he wasent completely still and having him on his back is the only way to do this. Yes I dont think he likes it but It has to be done...just as many rabbits dont like going to the vets or being treated for an illness it has to be done.

isla
10-09-2009, 08:15 PM
my rabbit is short haired and sometimes gets matts between his back legs. I have to either brush them out or cut them. I couldnt do this if he wasent completely still and having him on his back is the only way to do this. Yes I dont think he likes it but It has to be done...just as many rabbits dont like going to the vets or being treated for an illness it has to be done.

I think for that you might need to think about why he would be getting matts between his back legs, like are they pooey matts or something like that?

DemiS
10-09-2009, 08:28 PM
Cool, let us know how it goes!

Badly :roll: :lol:
Flash just kept moving backwards, there was no way I could keep him still.

peppa
11-09-2009, 08:21 AM
Dont suppose anyone noticed me asking about bunny massage twice he he lol:D Not to be cheeky, shall i take it no one knows or start another thread. lol
Want to help my bunnies relax xx

Sam_Spice
11-09-2009, 08:50 AM
No idea about bunny massage sorry :oops:

We lift our buns up against out chest with our hand cupped into under their bums to support them, so their sort of in a banana shape, with their backs leaning against us. You can clearly see their 'private areas' and check their nails. We also trim any skirts with a second person for the trimming bit this way. For nail trimming one of us hold the rabbit in our arms normally(i.e. the way a rabbit would sit), and the other fiddles about with each paw clipping the nails :lol:

I can't for the life of me find a picture! I will take one if it helps haha my explaining is rubbish :oops::lol:

peppa
11-09-2009, 09:32 AM
lol arrr thanks thats ok, was on a utube video xx

:D

Bluesmum
11-09-2009, 12:09 PM
Dont suppose anyone noticed me asking about bunny massage twice he he lol:D Not to be cheeky, shall i take it no one knows or start another thread. lol
Want to help my bunnies relax xx

If you search on amazon there is a book on bunny massage. I have it and it is really good. Very informative anatomicly (sp) too.

If I need to check Blue for anything I just sit him on my lap with his bum and feet sticking up. He has really long bum fuzz :lol: so I check theres nothing stuck in it and check his toes. Either that or I cradle him with his head on my shoulder and his back/bum on my elbow so he's still upright.
I don't really like the though of frightening him but I've seen him wedge himself on the sofa so he's flopped on his back :roll:

peppa
11-09-2009, 01:11 PM
ooo thank you so much bluesmum will go look for that now x

Bluesmum
11-09-2009, 01:14 PM
ooo thank you so much bluesmum will go look for that now x

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Relaxed-Rabbit-Massage-Your-Bunny/dp/0595310621/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252671229&sr=8-4