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biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 03:18 PM
bisc went quite quiet last night and wouldn't eat as much as normal. i gave him metacam and felt his tummy and it felt harder than normal and a bit distended. also, when i gently massaged it, it made gurgly noises, particularly on parts that seemed hard.

is this gas?

he did some poops but small ones which really smelled.

he is having metacam and is eating more now and moving around more aswell.

i think it is gas, he kind of lay down funny, and i didn't know how to explain but he was kind of walking different, and half closing his eyes.

does this sound like gas and can someone tell me what i can give him and how much/how often etc. he weighs 2.19kg.

prettylupin
30-08-2009, 03:39 PM
bisc went quite quiet last night and wouldn't eat as much as normal. i gave him metacam and felt his tummy and it felt harder than normal and a bit distended. also, when i gently massaged it, it made gurgly noises, particularly on parts that seemed hard.

is this gas?

he did some poops but small ones which really smelled.

he is having metacam and is eating more now and moving around more aswell.

i think it is gas, he kind of lay down funny, and i didn't know how to explain but he was kind of walking different, and half closing his eyes.

does this sound like gas and can someone tell me what i can give him and how much/how often etc. he weighs 2.19kg.

Yes it sounds like gas. It can occur in isolation due to stress or caecal dysbiosis (upset tum), but it can also be secondary to an obstruction or impaction or straightfoward stasis/ileus. For the latter risks Bisc will need to see a vet for a full exam if it does not resolve itself in the next hour or so.
Metacam - great. I would also give him 1ml of infacol or 1-2ml gripe water and gently but firmly massage his tummy from his ribs down to his bottom using the flat of your hand in circular motions. I would also make him hop around. He's not your respiratory bunny is he??

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Yes it sounds like gas. It can occur in isolation due to stress or caecal dysbiosis (upset tum), but it can also be secondary to an obstruction or impaction or straightfoward stasis/ileus. For the latter risks Bisc will need to see a vet for a full exam if it does not resolve itself in the next hour or so.
Metacam - great. I would also give him 1ml of infacol or 1-2ml gripe water and gently but firmly massage his tummy from his ribs down to his bottom using the flat of your hand in circular motions. I would also make him hop around. He's not your respiratory bunny is he??

he does have uri but has been off meds for a few months now.

i tried them with basil yesterday and he had one leaf and it has upset his tum. :(

he is moving around lots more now and eating but his poops are still small.

i have maxolon here aswell which the vet gave me incase this happened, but i don't know if i can use it. normally i would, but then i've read sometimes it can make things worse?

i think it is gas, as he never seems to get full on stasis, yet isn't quite right either. he had it before and i gave him the maxolon and metacam and went to the vets and he said i didn't really need to give the maxalon as it wasn't full stasis because he was eating.

so i think it is gas. will it do him any harm to have infacol? just want to make sure. i don't have any in but can go and get some.

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 04:13 PM
infacol is 1ml how often?

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 04:39 PM
his poops are getting bigger! and he is eating loads of hay! :)

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 07:05 PM
double post!

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 07:06 PM
hmmmm.... biscs tum is feeling alot softer now, and the 'hard' parts seem to be moving towards the back end. it's like lumps in his tum but they are like taut skin and when you massage them they gurgle.

my mum is on her way round with some infacol so does everyone think it is gas bubbles? and would infacol be safe to use, say even if gas was suspected? it wouldn't do any harm?

bisc is moving around normally now and eating normally too. just had his veg and lots more hay.

sorry keep posting, just don't want to give him infacol if i shouldn't.

prettylupin
30-08-2009, 07:58 PM
hmmmm.... biscs tum is feeling alot softer now, and the 'hard' parts seem to be moving towards the back end. it's like lumps in his tum but they are like taut skin and when you massage them they gurgle.

my mum is on her way round with some infacol so does everyone think it is gas bubbles? and would infacol be safe to use, say even if gas was suspected? it wouldn't do any harm?

bisc is moving around normally now and eating normally too. just had his veg and lots more hay.

sorry keep posting, just don't want to give him infacol if i shouldn't.

Sorry for delay! Up to my eyes in human rights law! :roll: There's usually more people on here.... :?
Yeah, I think if he's moving around normally and eating normally then he probably no longer needs the infacol. However, in my unqualified opinion (stealing Jane's line!) it would not cause any harm if you were to give it and he didn't need it as it's just simeticone and pretty inert stuff. However, if he is your 'breathing' problem bun or is that Matt? then he might get stressed being given a medication if he's feeling better and livelier.
Hope that helps a bit.....definitely worth keeping a pot in the house though for next time (if it should happen again - hopefully not). :wave:

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 09:15 PM
Sorry for delay! Up to my eyes in human rights law! :roll: There's usually more people on here.... :?
Yeah, I think if he's moving around normally and eating normally then he probably no longer needs the infacol. However, in my unqualified opinion (stealing Jane's line!) it would not cause any harm if you were to give it and he didn't need it as it's just simeticone and pretty inert stuff. However, if he is your 'breathing' problem bun or is that Matt? then he might get stressed being given a medication if he's feeling better and livelier.
Hope that helps a bit.....definitely worth keeping a pot in the house though for next time (if it should happen again - hopefully not). :wave:

i'm so annoyed because i nearly bought some in asda on tuesday but changed my mind! :roll:

matt is the 'breathing' bunny. bisc is the cystitis bunny! it isn't a cystitis thing again though, that was my first thought, he is weeing normally.

he is running over for veg everytime i go to the kitchen so isn't off his food, but his tummy still feels firmer than it should. mind you, i said to the vet is tum felt too firm once, and he said it just felt full!

hmmm.... i will give the infacol and see if that makes any difference, and keep on with the metacam just until his poops are normal again. they are smaller but still 'hay' coloured so he is eating enough hay. he is moulting too so maybe that has something to do with it.

they're such a worry aren't they. my nerves can't take anymore!!!

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 09:51 PM
my mum couldn't find any in tesco so my brother has very kindly gone out looking for some! sometimes little things people do get me all emotional!

just massaged biscs tum again and it's gurgling quite loudly now. certain parts are quite hard and when you go deeper into them they gurgle and when i stopped all the gas moved and i could see his tum moving. :( he let me massage for a good length of time though.

just praying my brother can find some infacol. :(

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 09:52 PM
sorry to ask again but 1ml how often and for how long?

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 10:11 PM
oh my god!!! my brothers going all the way to some tesco miles away to get the infacol. couldn't find anywhere else open!

least they have it. the man said it is the one in a white box though? is this still the right one? because it is usually a pink box isn't it?

floptastic
30-08-2009, 11:02 PM
oh my god!!! my brothers going all the way to some tesco miles away to get the infacol. couldn't find anywhere else open!

least they have it. the man said it is the one in a white box though? is this still the right one? because it is usually a pink box isn't it?

That sounds like it - I've not come across anything else called Infacol.
In the absence of any of the regular experts I can only describe what I do when I suspect gas. For me 1ml is an initial dosage, then I play it by ear. If I suspect that didn't have an effect I give another 0.5ml an hour later and so on. In my experience it usually takes the initial dose but no more than a third dose to see normal behaviour - but that's my experience. Of course it may not be gas. Good luck, fingers crossed he feels better soon.

biscandmatt1
30-08-2009, 11:21 PM
That sounds like it - I've not come across anything else called Infacol.
In the absence of any of the regular experts I can only describe what I do when I suspect gas. For me 1ml is an initial dosage, then I play it by ear. If I suspect that didn't have an effect I give another 0.5ml an hour later and so on. In my experience it usually takes the initial dose but no more than a third dose to see normal behaviour - but that's my experience. Of course it may not be gas. Good luck, fingers crossed he feels better soon.

thank you.

my brother got here after an hour of travelling round for it. love him.

i've given 1ml to bisc and another long tum massage. i am going to see how he is after an hour and then decide whether to give another small dose, or go to the emergency vets.

bisc is eating and drinking but hasn't pooped in a bit.

his tum feels a little bit softer though. fingers crossed.

one hour more i'm going to give him, but only because he is acting himself. but after that i'm going to the vets. just a shame it's the useless vets and that makes me nervous.

it's strange because he is eating caecotrophs, yet doesn't seem to be doing many normal poops. they are small yet not dark though. bit strange.

my gut instinct is that he does have gas. hope the infacol will help.

floptastic
31-08-2009, 12:43 AM
The reason I said it may not be gas is because in my experience gas is unmistakable (granted people's experiences vary). When my Max got gas he had all the classic symptoms of a bunny in pain - loud tummy noises, hiding or avoiding me, hunched up and grinding his teeth, difficulting staying in one position, refusing to eat even his favourite food. Once the Infacol kicked in it was back to normal behaviour - eating, pooping, cleaning as if nothing happened :roll:. It's now a good few years now since he's had gas (once I sorted out his diet).
I hope Bisc is feeling much better now.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 01:58 AM
The reason I said it may not be gas is because in my experience gas is unmistakable (granted people's experiences vary). When my Max got gas he had all the classic symptoms of a bunny in pain - loud tummy noises, hiding or avoiding me, hunched up and grinding his teeth, difficulting staying in one position, refusing to eat even his favourite food. Once the Infacol kicked in it was back to normal behaviour - eating, pooping, cleaning as if nothing happened :roll:. It's now a good few years now since he's had gas (once I sorted out his diet).
I hope Bisc is feeling much better now.

bisc was quiet and would go somewhere but then sit there for ages, then when he lay down he would push his tum against the ground and put his head on the floor aswell.

he isn't eating much hay now, but he has had some veg.

the emergency/useless vets told me (over the phone) to go with the meds that the rabbit vet had said to use in a situation like this, as that is all they would give him anyway because he is eating still and moving around. :?

so he has been having metacam anyway, and then infacol, and then the maxolon the rabbit vet gave me to keep here.

he has done some poops, still very small though, and very 'gassy' smelling.

to be honest he does seem a bit brighter than earlier. but his tum still isn't right, it is softer though.

hoping some more poops will come through shortly. i'm on poop watch.

going to do his metacam at 2am and some more infacol aswell.

he is confusing me because he is running over for veg, yet he isn't pooping alot. :?

is there anything else i could give him?

floptastic
31-08-2009, 02:43 AM
Some veg cause gas (and that was my undoing at the time - I found out the hard way). So unless that's all he'll eat I wouldn't give any more. I use to give wet parsley or something wet just make sure they were hydrated. Just make sure he access to plenty of hay and water.
It honestly sounds as if you've done all you can for now. If he seems comfortable get some rest you may have more responses from people tomorrow. I use to worry myself silly sometimes and be completely useless the next day. Strange how it always happens at the weekend - a bank holiday weekend at that. But perhaps you may be able to see an emergency vet (who isn't useless). Get some sleep. You and Bisc take care.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 03:18 AM
Some veg cause gas (and that was my undoing at the time - I found out the hard way). So unless that's all he'll eat I wouldn't give any more. I use to give wet parsley or something wet just make sure they were hydrated. Just make sure he access to plenty of hay and water.
It honestly sounds as if you've done all you can for now. If he seems comfortable get some rest you may have more responses from people tomorrow. I use to worry myself silly sometimes and be completely useless the next day. Strange how it always happens at the weekend - a bank holiday weekend at that. But perhaps you may be able to see an emergency vet (who isn't useless). Get some sleep. You and Bisc take care.

the maxolon has helped alot, he has his appetite for hay back now, so he is having that. the only veg i could give him was carrot and thyme, as the other stuff he likes is gassy so i didn't want to add more gas!!!

he ate lots of hay and then did some more poops, twice as many as before, they are a little bigger but quite soft.

he has just had another 0.5ml of infacol and a tum rub. his tum is very gurgly and gassy. but seems to all be coming through now.

there is no way i will sleep. i will have to watch him now. and if he carries on doing ok then i will try the two rabbit vets i use in the morning and hope one is open and able to see him.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 04:40 AM
i've been out picking grass! washed it and then wet it again and also some parsley and thyme, also soaked in water. just to get some more fluids in him. he ate them all. and more hay. he has done more poops now, a little bigger again, and one normal sized one. stomach still not quite right. but will carry on with meds and hopefully he will more poops out. he seems happy enough though. :)

hannah
31-08-2009, 06:34 AM
How is bisc this morning - hope he is feeling better?

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 07:05 AM
well i'm confused because he is acting completely normal and is eating normally aswell, loads of hay etc, he is even producing caecotrophs and eating those, yet his poops are still small and soft and his tum doesn't feel quite right still. :?

what would cause this - being normal, yet having soft small poops? :?

can't believe it is bank holiday! the vets i go to is only open 10 - 11am and if i ring at 10am and get an appointment, i probably won't get there on time, as i am far away, and unless someone can take me, which i don't think they can, i will have to get a taxi, so by the time that comes i won't get there before they close again. :roll:

might have to try another vet closer to me. there is another rabbit one so i'll ring them and hope they are open and can see bisc.

can i keep giving him infacol until then? he had 1ml at 11.50pm, 0.5ml at 1.10am, 0.5ml at 3.10am, and then i waited two hours and gave him another 1ml at 5.10am. can they get gas this bad? because his tum is gurgling alot when i massage it, and the infacol does seem to be helpingm but very slowly with the gas. :? thought it would have sorted it by now. maybe it isn't gas? but it does feel like it and sound like it aswell, and the poops smell aswell.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 09:11 AM
he's doing more poops now, and they are a bit bigger, but very soft. also, you can hear his tum gurgling when he is sat still. is it good it is making a noise or not?

been ringing both vets but no-one there yet.

thumps_
31-08-2009, 09:35 AM
Sorry I'm late in on this - Infacol isn't absorbed into the system it just breaks up the gas pockets so it's easier to pass - Thumper is 3 kilo - my vet allows him 2ml, twice a day after full stasis is on the mend, so your previous advice is fine. The "hard places" are loops of bowel distended with gas & the gurgling caused by gas. Sounds good that the tummy is softer & all is moving to the bottom end. Bunnies can't burp so it's got to work it's way through.

I reckon that the poops will be smaller cos the gas is "holding up the food a bit" - less getting into the colon. Takes time for the hay to work through. As long as things are improving - eating, pooping - more bigger poops, tummy less hard, I'd carry on with the metacam & infacol, & make sure Bisc is drinking as well as eating.

Sounds as if you're winning here.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 09:48 AM
Sorry I'm late in on this - Infacol isn't absorbed into the system it just breaks up the gas pockets so it's easier to pass - Thumper is 3 kilo - my vet allows him 2ml, twice a day after full stasis is on the mend, so your previous advice is fine. The "hard places" are loops of bowel distended with gas & the gurgling caused by gas. Sounds good that the tummy is softer & all is moving to the bottom end. Bunnies can't burp so it's got to work it's way through.

I reckon that the poops will be smaller cos the gas is "holding up the food a bit" - less getting into the colon. Takes time for the hay to work through. As long as things are improving - eating, pooping - more bigger poops, tummy less hard, I'd carry on with the metacam & infacol, & make sure Bisc is drinking as well as eating.

Sounds as if you're winning here.

i don't know what to do now. because the only vet that is open today is the one i normally go to, but it is 40 mins away, and they open at 10am. then i would have to ring a taxi and the taxi costs me 50. i'm not bothered about the cost, but what i mean is, that i might not make it before it closes at 11am, and then that is 50 wasted that could have gone on future treatment. also, they don't wait for you there, they just close the doors. no-one can take me there.

also, bisc is still eating ok, and has now started pooping more, lots of squishy ones. kind of like caecotrophs but not full ones, like bits of them. but there is more poop coming out, even though it is squishy. i guess that is to be expected though???

he is moving around but i think he is uncomfortable when he poops.

he is eating hay though so i'm hoping it will go through.

so you think it is gas then? because the tum has distended parts which are harder and when you massage them deeper they make loud gurgling noises. i'm scared of being wrong and him having a blockage or something. but he wouldn't pass anything if he had that would he???

the only other thing i could do is keep him on the metacam and infacol and if he does seem worse through the day, to take him to the emergency vets, which isn't far, and is open 24 hours. although, i don't particularly like it there. :?

i don't know what to do. :(

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 09:57 AM
just thought, would his recent two cases of cystitis maybe have anything to do with it? he is weeing ok though. :?

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 10:08 AM
it's been engaged since 10am! i'm never going to make it there now. :cry:

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 10:16 AM
neither of the rabbit vets are in. :( but the ones there have said if he is eating and some poop is coming out, then it sounds like everything is just moving slowly through, but it sounds like it is moving which is the main thing. said to carry on with the metacam and infacol for now.

least i have the emergency vets to go to if he does get worse. they're not far either. just don't trust them really. but if he did get worse i wouldn't have a choice. he would have to go.

please can i have loads of poop vibes for bisc.

:(:(:(

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 10:20 AM
sorry for going on, but he is munching lots of hay! that's got to help right?

hannah
31-08-2009, 10:38 AM
If he is eating that is a good sign - my archie sometimes has a gassy belly but he stops eating untill he starts to feel better - Keep a close eye on him, I would try and find an emergency 24 hour vets just in case though

thumps_
31-08-2009, 10:40 AM
I think he'll come through it if you carry on.
OK if there was an obstruction at the top end he'd have stopped eating altogether by now & if there was an obstruction lower down he wouldn't be pooping. So it's keeping it moving with pain relief & breaking up the gas with infacol, & keeping the fluids going in too.
ETA the hay is fantastic - natural fiber which gets the gut going - Bisc knows what's good for him.
The other aspect of missing the vet is the wasted journey for Bisc.
All the best. Don't worry we're finger crossing for Bisc. Judy & Thumper.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 11:36 AM
thanks.

i will keep going. seems to be working. he is hopping round anyway and eating hay. i haven't let them have any pellets so he iwll eat more hay for now.

very squishy poops coming out, but more of them now.

he does seem brighter than before and his tum is getting softer, definitely.

and the emergency vets are there if things do get worse.

i'm so tired though! should sleep for a bit but scared of something happening whilst i'm asleep. don't know how much longer i can though!

got to do chesneys eye drops aswell, and matts nebuliser....it's never ending.

just want them all well.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 11:46 AM
he's just done lots of poops! only a few soft ones this time, the rest are bigger and more normal! think it's all coming through now. he is eating lots of hay so giving himself the best chance there! so pleased. :)

when is best to give him more infacol? he had 1ml at 11.50pm, 0.5ml at 1.10am, 0.5ml at 3.10am and then 1ml at 5.10am.

hannah
31-08-2009, 11:55 AM
I cant help with the infacol - but you need to sleep in case you need to go to the vets etc later - you will need a clear head. Set your alarm for an hour or so and just have a quick nap - it will also give bisc a break, he will pick up on your stress

thumps_
31-08-2009, 11:56 AM
Perhaps you could see how Bisc is after you've treated the others, & if his tummy's softer get yourself 4 hrs kip. (Miss the gas passing bit?!!)
ETA with better poops I'd just give the ml at around 5.00pm now.

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 12:01 PM
yeh, think i will do chesneys eye drops, matts nebuliser and biscs metacam and tum rubs and then get an hour or two....if i can! i don't sleep when i'm thinking too much! bisc seems to be ok though. still eating hay....good boy!!! :D

thumps_
31-08-2009, 05:45 PM
How is Bisc this evening?

biscandmatt1
31-08-2009, 08:20 PM
he is fine in himself, acting normally. his tum is much softer now, still a hard bit but it's low down now and that still gurgles, but the rest isn't gurgling like it was. although his tum is softer, it is still 'big' if you know what i mean???

he has been eating lots of hay still. he had some parsley and thyme soaked in water and one piece of carrot.

i ended up waiting a bit and gave matt his nebuliser at veg time so he could have his normal veg in the carrier and bisc had herbs instead! he can't have alot of variety because the other things i have are gassy.

he had 1ml of infacol aswell. and metacam.

he is pooping still but they aren't back to normal yet. a bit bigger again but still quite soft.

he has drunk quite alot of water aswell. i'm syringe feeding him water when he has his meds aswell. he doesn't bother about all the meds and water being syringed. he seems to really love his tummy rubs too. :)

it's such painfully slow progress but he's getting there.

hannah
31-08-2009, 09:04 PM
glad he's getting there - you should tell him he is so lucky to have such a dedicated bunnymummy

thumps_
31-08-2009, 09:14 PM
That's very hopeful news - I'm hoping Bisc will recover completely tomorrow.
Goodness he's a good boy with his medicines! Love him :love:

prettylupin
31-08-2009, 10:17 PM
Glad he's feeling a bit better, hope you managed to get some kip. Hoping he's even better tomorrow too. :)

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 01:41 AM
thank you.

i got a couple of hours sleep earlier so feel a bit better.

he has really come on well this evening. his tum is feeling much better. :)

i'm speaking to the vets again tomorrow and then seeing whether it's worth him going, or whether at this stage it may make him more stressed when he is actually so close to being back to normal. least they said that all the meds are right and that is what he would be on anyway.

i'm so glad my brother went and found some infacol. i think i would have been at the emergency vets if he hadn't.

but getting there! if he continues as he has done today then by tomorrow he should be near enough there. :)

three out of four of mine on mediation. :( but all doing well and getting there.

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 03:09 AM
he has bigger poops!!! alot bigger than the last lot! and he has eaten soooo much hay and been drinking lots of water now. so much i don't need to syringe the water anymore.

sooooooo happy about the poops!!! they look nearly back to normal now! he only has a little bit of gas now that i can feel. nearly there!!! :)

thumps_
01-09-2009, 08:17 AM
I'm so pleased with Bisc's progress - Phewww! - bunnies with iffy tummies!!!
Really hoping you can get some rest in between all your nursing duties today. :D:D:D

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 12:22 PM
i'm really confused. biscs poops are about 3/4 of their normal usual size now, although still soft, and darker than normal.

he is eating loads of hay, drinking as normal, and is moving around as normal. he looks fine and is acting fine.

yet, when he lies down, it looks like his middle bulges out, and his undeneath is still firm, mainly the middle section. the lower part is soft, the middle is still firm, and the top part i don't really know how that should feel. i didn't go pressing around up there as i could feel his ribs. don't think i've felt his ribs that clearly before. or am i getting paranoid. :?

i know sometimes he has a full 'tum' and i panic and then it goes down after he goes to the toilet.

to just look at him you wouldn't know anything was wrong. :?

do you know how long it should take for him to be back to normal? maybe i am expecting too much too soon? he still has some gurgling that is more than normal gut sounds, yet i would have thought the infacol would have sorted the gas by now?

i know when matt had stasis, it took a week of intensive care to get him back to normal. bisc didn't get quite to the same stage as matt, because he never stopped eating. he ate alot less, and i am sure he would have gone into full stasis had he not been started on treatment asap, but i don't know if i am expecting too much too soon. :?

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 12:26 PM
it's ok, he's just been sat in the tray eating hay the whole time i was typing that, and i've just been to check and we have lots of even bigger poops now! much firmer if still a little dark! very happy and i think i am just expecting too much too soon. i think he's ding really well. the poops are nearly back to normal size now! :)

prettylupin
01-09-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm not suggesting for a minute that you are paranoid of overly concerned as staying 'vigilant' on bunny 'motions' is the best way to be and seeing as Bisc has been not quite right in the tummy department the last few days, it is even more important. You know him better than anyone and must trust your instinct.
However, I do know that my buns droppings (and they are on a fully hay and veg diet only) do change throughout the day at varying times of the day and dependent on what they have been eating. They're often smaller overnight or first thing and perhaps darker, then throughout the morning if they're having just hay they get really huge and golden by the afternoon. If they've been out on the grass they are much more 'triangular' in appearance, darker, smaller and with a stronger smell, and after veggies and hay they tend to be largeish but darker. Colour is dependent on the quantities of indigestible fibre consumed earlier. So grass and veg has less waste material and hence less bulky droppings are passed, being richer in sugars and proteins and wetter, droppings are naturally darker. Nino often does a couple of the teeniest tiniest dry droppings (just a two or three) amongst his normal morning droppings - something slows overnight with him, but within half an hour they are completely back to normal once he's vigourously encouraged gut motility by stuffing his face with some really yummy hay, I always focus on refreshing hay first thing, late afternoon and at nightime to stimulate appetite post-sleepiness!

Gut motility can also take up to two weeks to return to complete normal after an episode of ileus or stasis as ileus and insufficient neuro and smooth muscular control for gut motility is persistent, so I would say, as long as he is eating and passing droppings he is on the road to recovery, and may just need time to restablish gut motility adequately, of course it's a good idea to stay vigilant and encourage a good appetite over these two weeks to make sure you really are out of the woods. :)

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 02:03 PM
I'm not suggesting for a minute that you are paranoid of overly concerned as staying 'vigilant' on bunny 'motions' is the best way to be and seeing as Bisc has been not quite right in the tummy department the last few days, it is even more important. You know him better than anyone and must trust your instinct.
However, I do know that my buns droppings (and they are on a fully hay and veg diet only) do change throughout the day at varying times of the day and dependent on what they have been eating. They're often smaller overnight or first thing and perhaps darker, then throughout the morning if they're having just hay they get really huge and golden by the afternoon. If they've been out on the grass they are much more 'triangular' in appearance, darker, smaller and with a stronger smell, and after veggies and hay they tend to be largeish but darker. Colour is dependent on the quantities of indigestible fibre consumed earlier. So grass and veg has less waste material and hence less bulky droppings are passed, being richer in sugars and proteins and wetter, droppings are naturally darker. Nino often does a couple of the teeniest tiniest dry droppings (just a two or three) amongst his normal morning droppings - something slows overnight with him, but within half an hour they are completely back to normal once he's vigourously encouraged gut motility by stuffing his face with some really yummy hay, I always focus on refreshing hay first thing, late afternoon and at nightime to stimulate appetite post-sleepiness!

Gut motility can also take up to two weeks to return to complete normal after an episode of ileus or stasis as ileus and insufficient neuro and smooth muscular control for gut motility is persistent, so I would say, as long as he is eating and passing droppings he is on the road to recovery, and may just need time to restablish gut motility adequately, of course it's a good idea to stay vigilant and encourage a good appetite over these two weeks to make sure you really are out of the woods. :)

brilliant, thank you for this. :)

he is now passing poops that are 3/4 of the normal size still, but they are now a golden colour again. :)

i know what you mean, the droppings are slightly different at different times, but i think now all the hay is coming through and they are golden again which is mainly what biscs are, 99% of the time, so i am pleased.

i can be very paranoid, but i've never been wrong yet so i must be doing something right. i go with my gut instinct and it has paid off so far.

i'm speaking to the vet in a bit anyway so will update them but i think i will be carrying on with the metacam and infacol a while longer, at least until after the poops are back to normal, and then probably 24 hours after they are aswell.

i am having trouble with biscs diet though as he doesn't try much and the things he likes are the things he shouldn't have alot of. :? and then when i try something new i don't know if it will set his tum off, like the basil leaf he had. he had one the next day aswell.

i will post a new thread later and see what people suggest. :)

prettylupin
01-09-2009, 02:09 PM
I must say I have never had any problems with basil so am surprised, even with our sensitive tum bunny, they eat tons of the stuff :? I have had problems with unwashed herbs from the large chain T supermarket though....causing an acute dysbiosis :roll: Luckily our local store is Waitrose! Spoilt rabbits :roll::lol:
In my own 'bunny tummy' experience I find stress of some sort, whether it be pain related or emotional stress is often the more likely causative factor for episodes of bloat and stasis, but that's not to say that certain veggies can't cause it....Trying to find the cause is always the frustrating bit. He sounds much better so here's to a continued recovery. :D

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 02:25 PM
I must say I have never had any problems with basil so am surprised, even with our sensitive tum bunny, they eat tons of the stuff :? I have had problems with unwashed herbs from the large chain T supermarket though....causing an acute dysbiosis :roll: Luckily our local store is Waitrose! Spoilt rabbits :roll::lol:
In my own 'bunny tummy' experience I find stress of some sort, whether it be pain related or emotional stress is often the more likely causative factor for episodes of bloat and stasis, but that's not to say that certain veggies can't cause it....Trying to find the cause is always the frustrating bit. He sounds much better so here's to a continued recovery. :D

he hasn't seemed stressed or anything. although he is moulting, but never seems to get too unhappy about it. matt does!

i have had problems with certain veg/herbs before when they have tried something new. no matter how slowly i do it, it can be just one piece.

matt had problems with a few, they both got upset tums with curly kale.

i find spring greens sometimes do aswell. bisc has had these regularly, but then was having a few bits extra lately when matt goes in his nebuliser so could have been that bit too much???

i can't think why else it would have happened. could just be gas from the veggies???

nothing else has happened out of the ordinary really, apart from my bf coming home after being away 9 weeks, and the going again for a bit. he still isn't back. they miss him alot. it is mainly matt that gets upset and unsettled when he goes, although bisc isn't good with a change of routine.

i have been to the vets alot lately to do with matt so it could be the stress of all that finally getting to him???

matt has become quite snuffly again so bisc might know that?

i really don't know for sure.

i really want them to have a more natural diet, but like i said, he won't try hardly anything, and i'm scared of anything upsetting there tums. also now, his veg has been limited even more, as i have to be careful with calcium now after his cystitis type recent infections. so i'm a bit stuck really.

all he will eat is -

savoy cabbage
spring greens
carrots
parsley
broccoli
and sometimes thyme, depends if he is in the mood. :roll:

also, grass sometimes

hay obviously

he likes willow branches.

i also got different things from the hayexperts like the mixed herbs and things, but he didn't eat that much of them really.

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 05:12 PM
HE'S DONE IT!!!

his tum feels normal now, and his poops are big and golden!

PHEW!!!

:D

prettylupin
01-09-2009, 05:39 PM
HE'S DONE IT!!!

his tum feels normal now, and his poops are big and golden!

PHEW!!!

:D

:thumb:

thumps_
01-09-2009, 07:40 PM
Fantastic news - well done all round!

biscandmatt1
01-09-2009, 09:39 PM
you know when you realise they aren't quite right? well it isn't until they are obviously feeling well again that you realise just how not right they were. he is so energetic now and happy.

soooooooooooooooooo glad he is ok. so proud of him aswell. love him soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. :love:

poppymoon
01-09-2009, 10:55 PM
well done bisc - and well done you:wave: gut instincts do pay off:D

biscandmatt1
02-09-2009, 01:05 AM
yeh, always go with gut instinct!

thank you everyone for supporting bisc and me. :D

hannah
02-09-2009, 08:16 AM
well done! Bisc should be so proud of you! (and himself too)

biscandmatt1
02-09-2009, 05:55 PM
well done! Bisc should be so proud of you! (and himself too)

aww, :) he was so good so made it easier. :)

just given him one last infacol and metacam and he was more defiant, like 'er mum, i don't need it anymore, unhand me at once!' :lol:

biscandmatt1
03-09-2009, 09:07 AM
poops are dodgy again - they are normal size, but some 'pear' shape ones aswell, and they are quite soft. i don't know why.

thumps_
03-09-2009, 07:04 PM
With Thumper it means that the lower gut has slightly slowed down or he's not eating enough fiber for the amount of "nutient". I'm over cautious but as Bisc had bloat last w/e, recovered & has now started this - I'd be inclined to have a vet check him over. Take a sample of his poops with you.

biscandmatt1
03-09-2009, 07:58 PM
With Thumper it means that the lower gut has slightly slowed down or he's not eating enough fiber for the amount of "nutient". I'm over cautious but as Bisc had bloat last w/e, recovered & has now started this - I'd be inclined to have a vet check him over. Take a sample of his poops with you.

he has been admitted. :( i have another thread about him - 'bisc seems thinner' if you want to read about what has happened. :(