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Sudden acts of aggression

Graeme27Uk

Warren Scout
Can anyone explain what would cause happily bonded bunnies to lunge at each other and rip into each other????
 
What age/sex? Are there any other rabbits? You need to give a bit more info!
 
Bit more info here :)

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=191971

I think the answer in the other thread is definitely right - it's the addition of a new, unneutered boy that is causing the fights. Whether it's because of his hormones, or whether it's because there is suddenly a new intruder in their territory I can't be sure, but he is definitely the cause :)

Can we clarify - how old is the buck exactly? Has he been with them for 3 weeks already? If so, he should be older than 8 weeks now mustn't he, they don't normally leave mum until 8 weeks old. How were they originally bonded? Are they now in the enclosure formerly occupied just by the two girls?
 
Was he the offspring of one of the females and still living with them?

Adding an unneutered buck in with an existing pair is asking for trouble. Being around female rabbits seems to trigger the hormones even earlier and then obviously he's going to pester the females until they turn around and put him in his place. Once you have two rabbits fighting in an enclosed space they all get jumpy and start hitting out at each other.

If you are lucky you might get the two females back together if you keep the male well away (out of sight & smell). I wouldn't even think of trying the buck near them until 4-6 weeks after neutering and then odds are they'll remember and won't accept him and you'll have to be careful not not let them hurt each other. If your unlucky it will have broken the females bond too, depends if they got into it with each other or not.
 
Bit more info here :)
Can we clarify - how old is the buck exactly? Has he been with them for 3 weeks already? If so, he should be older than 8 weeks now mustn't he, they don't normally leave mum until 8 weeks old. How were they originally bonded? Are they now in the enclosure formerly occupied just by the two girls?

Well we got him on the 17th July and he was approx 6-8 weeks old, and we've had him 3 weeks. So i guess that makes him about 11-12 weeks at most.

Long story...

We got Smudge first of all, she is about 2, we had her neutered and then decided to get her some company and so we got Frosty (male). Bonded them on neutral territory and then had him neutered. About 6 months later we found Cookie and fell in love and so decided after lots of thought to get a third bun and again bonded them all on neutral territory and so forth, again getting Cookie neutered when she was old enough.

All was happy and lovely in bunnyland. We had three bonded loved-up bunnies all neutered and so "no" hormones etc... They all cuddled up with each other, slept together in a big bunny-ball of fluff, etc...

Unfortunately Frosty died under GA just over a month ago. The girls were obviously upset and missing him. We said we were not going to get another bunny, but we found Rufus and again fell in love. Maybe this is where we went wrong.

We let Rufus settle in to our house in a separate room away from the girls and when he seemed confident enough we introduced all three to each other on neutral ground as usual. They all seemed to get on ok after a while and were even grooming each other (Rufus hasn't quite got the idea he is supposed to groom them as well but he joins in).

We left them in neutral territory for a few more days to ensure that there were no fisticuffs and everything was good. So we moved them up to the bunny room and after some initial chasing, things settled down.

They were all ok, feeding with each other, grooming each other, laying with each other and so forth. This morning Cookie and Smudge were laying into each other big time which was really out of character, and it was Smudge (the alpha female) starting the fighting.

Completely out of the blue. One moment Smudge was grooming Cookie, next they were seriously fighting.
 
We also thoroughly cleaned the bunny-room using disinfectant and anti-odour things (vinegar I think was suggested by someone) before we introduced all three to the room. We also cleared out lots of old toys and blankets to remove as much territorial scent marking as we could.

We only have one bunnyroom. We used to have hutches outdoors until the foxes found them.... thankfully they didn't get to the bunnies but now I am paranoid about putting them outdoors.
 
Well we got him on the 17th July and he was approx 6-8 weeks old, and we've had him 3 weeks. So i guess that makes him about 11-12 weeks at most.

Long story...

We got Smudge first of all, she is about 2, we had her neutered and then decided to get her some company and so we got Frosty (male). Bonded them on neutral territory and then had him neutered. About 6 months later we found Cookie and fell in love and so decided after lots of thought to get a third bun and again bonded them all on neutral territory and so forth, again getting Cookie neutered when she was old enough.

All was happy and lovely in bunnyland. We had three bonded loved-up bunnies all neutered and so "no" hormones etc... They all cuddled up with each other, slept together in a big bunny-ball of fluff, etc...

Unfortunately Frosty died under GA just over a month ago. The girls were obviously upset and missing him. We said we were not going to get another bunny, but we found Rufus and again fell in love. Maybe this is where we went wrong.

We let Rufus settle in to our house in a separate room away from the girls and when he seemed confident enough we introduced all three to each other on neutral ground as usual. They all seemed to get on ok after a while and were even grooming each other (Rufus hasn't quite got the idea he is supposed to groom them as well but he joins in).

We left them in neutral territory for a few more days to ensure that there were no fisticuffs and everything was good. So we moved them up to the bunny room and after some initial chasing, things settled down.

They were all ok, feeding with each other, grooming each other, laying with each other and so forth. This morning Cookie and Smudge were laying into each other big time which was really out of character, and it was Smudge (the alpha female) starting the fighting.

Completely out of the blue. One moment Smudge was grooming Cookie, next they were seriously fighting.

If Rufus is 12 weeks old he will no doubt be smelling very hormonal to your Does. They may have gotten their first wiff of said smell this morning and that challenged Smudge's place as top Bunny so she attacked Cookie to try to retain her superiority. But unfortunately Cookie, being driven on by the new smell of a maturing Buck, was having none of it and fought back. Hence Smudge sustained the serious injury :cry:
 
Smudge made it out of the vets ok albeit with a rather large patch of fur shaved off and a war wound that a bare-knuckle fighter would be proud of...

We have put her in the bathroom (neutral territory) so that she can heal. She is most upset with me for abandoning her at the vets as every time I go near her she turns her back on me... sure she will get over that.

However, to make things more complicated, Cookie is still charging at Rufus. I have visions of her lunging at him and considering she is 3 times his weight (she is a hefty dwarf lop!) she could do some serious damage.

I don't know if its the right thing to do but I have had to put Rufus in with Smudge as she is more accepting at the moment and is grooming him and actually being affectionate. He isn't on edge as much either.

I told my wife I am on vigile tonight just in case anything happens, so I may well be back on here just to keep myself awake!

Cookie is now on her own for the first time in a year and a half and she looks a bit lost and depressed. I feel guilty for upsetting the status quo and part of me feels getting Rufus was a bad idea no matter how much I love him now. Someone gave me bad advice when they said getting a young male would be ok....

I am not sure what the next step is, lots of people have different opinions.

I don't want Cookie to be on her own forever as she loves snuggling with other bunnies and grooming (more than humans!), though having learnt from this next time I will get a neutered male nearer Cookie's age!

Option A:
Keep Smudge and Rufus together in the bathroom and just accept that I will now have 1 pair and 1 solo until I can get another to bond with Cookie (hopefully), though this will require more space and I don't currently have room for 2 bunny-rooms. Outdoors permanently isn't really an option. So one pair would have to stay in the bathroom (though they would have supervised access to all of downstairs for a run about) and the other in the bunnyroom.


Option B:
Wait for Smudge to heal up, remove Rufus and put him back in the bunny-room on his own. Clean out the bathroom and try to rebond Cookie and Smudge as they have been happy together for just over a year and it seems a shame to break that bond.

Keep Rufus out the way in either the bunny room or the bathroom for the next 4 months away from the girls until he has been neutered and try to bond him back in.


Option C
Somthing else I haven't thought of....


Any thoughts?
 
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