1 week old orphans - photos added

The latest addition to FF's is four one week old baby buns whose mum was pts yesterday Two of them are big and bouncy, one a little smaller and one tiny. They arrived at Abi's at 18:00 yesterday and I brought them home in the hope that our mummy bunny Pinot might be able to help with them.

We did present them to her and she was fantastic and allowed them to suckle her for a while but her kits were born on the 1st July - does anyone know how long mums produce milk for? They still seemed hungry after she had had enough so we went to the vets and got some additional milk.

I thought bottle feeding would be easy, that they'd just latch on and suck but it is a nightmare and getting any sort of volume into them is really difficult and a long drawn out process!! I put two pin ****** in the teet and squeezed a little onto their lips and gradually got a bit in them that way.

Anyway, all four are still here this am but if anyone has any tips - all welcome! Thanks - tired surrogate bunny mummy!

Aww bless...thinking about you all. Becky the vet nurse at the animal house has been handrearing some a bit older then these guys. Will ask when I am there this afternoon.

I am not sure but I would have thought that the Doe will continue to produce milk as long as kits are suckling :?

It might help to put a bottle of full fat goats milk up for Mum and the older kits, I know that is what ARC have done when in a similar situation.

I have very limited experience with this sort of thing but I am sending you all lots of vibes

So sorry about the Doe who was PTS

Awwww I saw the pics on Abis facebook so cute. No advice but just wanted to say good luck with them

I would agree with Jane that the doe should be able to continue to produce milk as long as they are suckling. Thats certainly how it works for humans anyway.

Wishing you and the babies the very best of luck. Its so sad about their mummy bunny.

Hand rearing is so tough, so do try to avoid that if possible.

If you do decide to go down that route, make sure that your hygiene standards are really strict...don't re-use milk and sterilize or throw away feeding equipment after every feed. Most kitten milk replacer is suitable (cimicat, lactol gold kitten, esbilac)

Thanks guys - I know it's tough, that's why Pinot was my first choice as at least then they'd be getting the right milk. We have the esbilac as a back up / addition and I was hoping that maybe them suckling would stimulate the milk production again. Thing is I know so little about baby buns, I was expecting them to roll under mummy for a bit and then emerge with round full bellies .... not so! All the ones we have had through here the mums have just got on with it and I've left them to it.

The thing is their mummy died through neglect - they shouldn't be in this position.

Jack's-Jane said:

It might help to put a bottle of full fat goats milk up for Mum and the older kits, I know that is what ARC have done when in a similar situation.

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Sorry to sound thick but why? I was thinking that the reason mum wasn't producing much is because her kits were no longer asking for much?

No advice but loads of vibes, hope little buns will all make it.

So sorry about their mum

chloaster said:

Sorry to sound thick but why? I was thinking that the reason mum wasn't producing much is because her kits were no longer asking for much?

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I did not realise that the older kits were no longer suckling much. AFAIK when ARC had a Doe with 4 week old kits and then a second litter of newborns they gave both Mum and older Kits the Goats Milk.

I have next to no knowledge about it all so I cant really give a more detailed explanation, sorry

How awful that the deceased Doe was neglected

Oh Chloe I'm so sorry to hear this,poor mummy bun!! I think as long as mum is producing some milk,then by getting the new babies to feed will encourage and keep her milk production going. The more they feed the more she will produce.I think the idea of the goats milk is somehow to keep her milk production up.

Jack's-Jane said:

I did not realise that the older kits were no longer suckling much. AFAIK when ARC had a Doe with 4 week old kits and then a second litter of newborns they gave both Mum and older Kits the Goats Milk.

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Oh I see - I do occassionally see the kits having a quick attempt but they seem to prefer the hay and baby food now - I could be wrong and just expecting too much too soon :?

Daisylop said:

Oh Chloe I'm so sorry to hear this,poor mummy bun!! I think as long as mum is producing some milk,then by getting the new babies to feed will encourage and keep her milk production going. The more they feed the more she will produce.I think the idea of the goats milk is somehow to keep her milk production up.

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That's what I was hoping - will definately try this goats milk idea - visit to Tescos on the way home!

Think about humans, they can breast feed for months or years, it dries up whenever they stop. Hopefully with babies suckling still, her milk production should continue. You can hold mum in a sitting position then hold a baby to her to feed. The babies will be a bit more active at chasing mum down for feed once their eyes open and they are that little bit older.

The bottle feeding should get easier after a couple of feeds, takes awhile for them to get the knack. You might find waiting an hour after feeding from mum makes them more keen as they'll be more hungry.

Hope the little ones will be ok. The poor, poor mummy bun

By about day 5 of their lives they should be able to suckle. Try using a syringe if you can get a teeny one from your vet...
Why don't you try giving them each a little goats' milk/Kitten milk as well as the Doe's milk. If the doe knows and trusts you she won't mind you borrowing them...
What feeding set do you have? I have had the Lactol one before, but I really don't think it was suitable. Catac do a great foster feeding kit, the kittens one is especially good. Also, a rabbit-savvy vet may be able to show you how to tube feed a foster kit, which is easier for you as it minimises the risk of causing pneumonia (caused by feeding to fast, feeding the kit while it's on it's back, etc) but it is a very delicate thing to do.
I have a little teat that is attacked to a syringe, which can encourage suckling - I just can't remember where I bought it - again, as a vet about it
Also, if you can get hold of another - healthy - rabbits' caecotrophs (good luck) try and mix it in with the kitten milk as this helps to stimulate the gut flora. And Avipro plus I believe...The bacteria or something helps them, it all just makes the substitute milk more like the mother's.
If you can persuade your doe to feed them, let her carry on.. You just need to keep her food dosages high, plent of fibre, and plenty of fresh veggies.
Good luck!

By the way, don't forget you'll probably still need to help them to pee and poo after meals...Use a warm, wet cotton bud and tap or rub their bits, it feels likemum licking them :roll:

MedicatedFluffball said:

I have a little teat that is attacked to a syringe, which can encourage suckling - I just can't remember where I bought it - again, as a vet about it :

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The teat you refer to is probably a Catac ST1, which fits onto a 1ml syringe. see link:

http://www.catac.co.uk/html/productlist.asp?id=2

MedicatedFluffball said:

By the way, don't forget you'll probably still need to help them to pee and poo after meals...Use a warm, wet cotton bud and tap or rub their bits, it feels likemum licking them :roll:

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Baby rabbits can toilet themselves after about day 5, so this shouldn't be necessary (you should see evidence of yellow brown poops) in the bed

Just wanted to mention that whilst I'm here my new bunny didn't give birth to Bobbi but has looked after her as her own since she was born (with her own litter) as Bobbi's mum died.

Hope everything goes well

Thanks guys - I've been using the feeding kit I have at home with the milk the vet gave me last night, the teet is very small and I just pin pricked it twice but I am having to squeeze the milk out rather than them suckling it. They are toileting themselves, I checked that. I'm going to try them on Pinot again tonight, she was great last night and the vet did recommend letting her mother them if she would but already living with her husbun and seven 5week old kits I think the others would pose more of a problem to them than Pinot herself.

abbymarysmokey said:

The teat you refer to is probably a Catac ST1, which fits onto a 1ml syringe. see link:

http://www.catac.co.uk/html/productlist.asp?id=2




Baby rabbits can toilet themselves after about day 5, so this shouldn't be necessary (you should see evidence of yellow brown poops) in the bed

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I don't know what age they can pee/poo by themselves from, thankfully I've never been in the situation of needing to do so. I've only ever had to do this with rabbits with their eyes just about open :roll:

And as for the teat I have, I don't know, I bought it aggeeeeeessss ago

chloaster said:

The thing is their mummy died through neglect - they shouldn't be in this position.

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Poor mum and poor little ones. It just beggars belief it really does. Fingers crossed for babies, good luck Chloe. X