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Any idea what could cause this?

NLENG2000

Mama Doe
I have been looking after a foster bunny (4 years old) for a week. In that time he has been under treatment with the vet for a blocked tear duct. He has been on 1.4ml of Baytril per day, and 0.5ml of Loxicam twice a day plus Maxitrol eye drops twice a day. He has no front teeth and his back ones are rotting and wonky and it is only a matter of time before they fall out. Because of this (i suspect)he is not eating hay (tried several different types) or readigrass. On the advice of the vet I have increased his pellets (SS) as he was constantly hungry. He is getting a mixture of veg - Gem lettuce, grated carrot, cabbage, and very small amounts of baby sweetcorn/strawberry/grapes/apple. It has to be soft and cut up small in order for him to be able to eat it!

Last night he had an "accident" on his blanket and this is what it looked like :-

Any idea's what it is and what causes it? Am I feeding the wrong type of veg? Any help would be much appreciated.

Rabbit002.jpg
 
Hmm im not sure but is this wee or poop as it may be the carrot juices.
If your worried I would get checked esp if hes not yours to put mind at rest.

As for his? eye Angel has similar problem she used to get it flushed all time but after deciding to make drain for her vet discovered her tear duct was shutting down and the next flush would have pooped it and killed her!
Vet couldnt make drain for her as its her teeth which is pressing onto her tear duct causing eye problems she said she would have removed teeth but they are too far into her skull. She has mouth disease! She has no front teeth and her teeth arestill growing under her gums but dont push out shes also 4ish unfortuantelt there isnt anything else we can do for angel her mouth disease will prob kill her although she does have eye drops everyday and denatls every couple of month which helps her. She is gorgeous. She cant eat hay either so we get her hay cubes from hay experts and crush them up for her otherwise just chop all veg small. ANGEL lost a lot of weight so she is allowed as many pellets as she can eat.
 
I can't tell if that is a normal dark orange urine stain or a spot of diarrhoea or malformed caecotroph stain? Wee or poo???! Sorry :?

I realise that with extreme dental issues it is hard to get him to eat anything, but without adequate fibre in his diet he is already going to be at risk of ileus and caecal dysbiosis, and as you say, further dental issues.
The veg he does eat...which I understand must be soft, is however all high in sugars and starch, with the exception of cabbage, and therefore likely to compound any gut issues. I would have thought that he would need a probiotic paste with added fibre such as Fibreplex - and the vets do have a long-term fibre prep for rabbits I understand. In addition to this I would try and find some 'leafier' veggies that he is able to eat instead of the ones currently offered. If he can manage cabbage then he can manage things like fresh herbs - parsley, basil, coriander, thyme, mint, watercres, carrot tops, celery tops, pea tops - these are less starchy veggies and have a better fibrous content.
Has the vet done a head Xray to assess his tooth roots? Does he have any abcesses or tear duct obstruction? He sounds like a very poorly bunny :( Is he on adequate pain relief? I think someone more experienced with disabled and elderly buns like Liz (Hugo's there) will be able to advise better on suitable diet to maintain his fibre levels. Good luck with this little bun :)
 
To me that looks like sludgy wee :? Is it sort of like a grainy or toothpast consistency in the middle?

If it is I can't imagine it has anything to do with his dental issues.

he is already on baytril so that would cover any urinary infection but if it happens again it would be worth popping him back to the vets to see if they can get a urine sample and take it from there. Try to get his to take in as much fluid as possible, offer a bowl and bottle and lots of wet veg :)


If it is poo then as others have said it could be due to his dental problems :)
 
I can't tell if that is a normal dark orange urine stain or a spot of diarrhoea or malformed caecotroph stain? Wee or poo???! Sorry :?

I realise that with extreme dental issues it is hard to get him to eat anything, but without adequate fibre in his diet he is already going to be at risk of ileus and caecal dysbiosis, and as you say, further dental issues.
The veg he does eat...which I understand must be soft, is however all high in sugars and starch, with the exception of cabbage, and therefore likely to compound any gut issues. I would have thought that he would need a probiotic paste with added fibre such as Fibreplex - and the vets do have a long-term fibre prep for rabbits I understand. In addition to this I would try and find some 'leafier' veggies that he is able to eat instead of the ones currently offered. If he can manage cabbage then he can manage things like fresh herbs - parsley, basil, coriander, thyme, mint, watercres, carrot tops, celery tops, pea tops - these are less starchy veggies and have a better fibrous content.
Has the vet done a head Xray to assess his tooth roots? Does he have any abcesses or tear duct obstruction? He sounds like a very poorly bunny :( Is he on adequate pain relief? I think someone more experienced with disabled and elderly buns like Liz (Hugo's there) will be able to advise better on suitable diet to maintain his fibre levels. Good luck with this little bun :)


What was on the blanket was a wee stain (normal) and like a paste sitting on top of the blanket. All his poos are normal, round and well formed so I do think this is wee not poo. I am seeing the vet again on friday as they think they will need to flush his tear duct now he has his eye drops and antibiotics, although the eye itself is looking a lot better but I will ask about the Fibreplex. He is on Loxicom for pain relief (alternative to Metacam) and is having 0.5ml twice a day. I will try the other herbs etc you mentioned and see how he gets on with those. Thanks.
 
The paste could be an indication of the beginings of bladder sludge and a sign of too much calcium in his diet? I missed the bit with loxicom in it sorry, was reading in a hurry! :oops: I hope he feels better soon. :)
 
To me that looks like sludgy wee :? Is it sort of like a grainy or toothpast consistency in the middle?

If it is I can't imagine it has anything to do with his dental issues.

he is already on baytril so that would cover any urinary infection but if it happens again it would be worth popping him back to the vets to see if they can get a urine sample and take it from there. Try to get his to take in as much fluid as possible, offer a bowl and bottle and lots of wet veg :)


If it is poo then as others have said it could be due to his dental problems :)

Yes it is exactly like a toothpaste consistency in the middle. He is drinking quite a lot of water - he has a bowl next to his food all the time, and he quite often goes for a drink. I just wanted to make sure there were was nothing urgent going on that couldn't wait till I see the vet again on friday.
 
Hmm im not sure but is this wee or poop as it may be the carrot juices.
If your worried I would get checked esp if hes not yours to put mind at rest.

As for his? eye Angel has similar problem she used to get it flushed all time but after deciding to make drain for her vet discovered her tear duct was shutting down and the next flush would have pooped it and killed her!
Vet couldnt make drain for her as its her teeth which is pressing onto her tear duct causing eye problems she said she would have removed teeth but they are too far into her skull. She has mouth disease! She has no front teeth and her teeth arestill growing under her gums but dont push out shes also 4ish unfortuantelt there isnt anything else we can do for angel her mouth disease will prob kill her although she does have eye drops everyday and denatls every couple of month which helps her. She is gorgeous. She cant eat hay either so we get her hay cubes from hay experts and crush them up for her otherwise just chop all veg small. ANGEL lost a lot of weight so she is allowed as many pellets as she can eat.

ooh the hay cubes crushed are a good idea. I will try to see if he will eat some of those! Thanks
 
Yes it is exactly like a toothpaste consistency in the middle. He is drinking quite a lot of water - he has a bowl next to his food all the time, and he quite often goes for a drink. I just wanted to make sure there were was nothing urgent going on that couldn't wait till I see the vet again on friday.

Excess calcium and urinary sludge....can be a symptom of a diet too high in calcium - pelleted food - however he needs this to maintan weight - another pellet may have lower levels. I would avoid veggies high in calcium also - kale, parsley, spinach, dandelions (a few are fine). The trick for this is to simultaneously increase water consumption....as Liz says - wet the veggies before feeding and offer bowl and bottle. He may prefer water at a certain temperature as does Thumper (Thumps's rabbits).
 
Has the vet done a head Xray to assess his tooth roots?

I fully agree with this :thumb:

The blocked tear ducts are probably caused by the tooth roots growing upwards into the eye/nasal area.

The dental issues are probably caused by lack of calcium in his diet whilst he was growing. Although eating hay could be good for his digestion, it's not going to help with his teeth now...the damage has been done long ago.

I have a bunny with virtually no molars and 2 abscesses on his jaw. He won't eat any hay or veg, so atm is having soaked burgess junior pellets with grated apple on top.

I think half the battle with buns with severe dental problems is getting ANY food into them, never mind about the right food!
 
I fully agree with this :thumb:

The blocked tear ducts are probably caused by the tooth roots growing upwards into the eye/nasal area.

The dental issues are probably caused by lack of calcium in his diet whilst he was growing. Although eating hay could be good for his digestion, it's not going to help with his teeth now...the damage has been done long ago.

I have a bunny with virtually no molars and 2 abscesses on his jaw. He won't eat any hay or veg, so atm is having soaked burgess junior pellets with grated apple on top.

I think half the battle with buns with severe dental problems is getting ANY food into them, never mind about the right food!

He had a full dental under GA when he was being neutered 2-3 weeks ago, so his teeth have been fully investigated and the best that can be done with these has been done.

I am breaking SS Pellets into 2-3 pieces and he is managing to consume these pretty well, plus he wolfs any veg I put in front of him so he is eating well. I want to make sure he gets the best food for his condition. Is the SS high in calcium? Are there other pellets that would be better? I know SS is high in fibre and so I felt it would be best for him given he is having no hay. Any suggestions for something better?
 
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