Long term metacam use

Has anyone experienced problems with metacam? Hazel, who is at least 8 years old, has been on it for about 4 years due to spondylitis (back problems leading to a mucky bum). She has stopped eating 3 times in the last month and started again after some gut stimulant. I am wondering about ulcers due to the metacam - I think I read about that somewhere. I'll take ehr to the vet but suspect he may not be able to come with anythhing concrete. She's full of beans and eating normally between episodes.

bunnylover177 said:

Has anyone experienced problems with metacam? Hazel, who is at least 8 years old, has been on it for about 4 years due to spondylitis (back problems leading to a mucky bum). She has stopped eating 3 times in the last month and started again after some gut stimulant. I am wondering about ulcers due to the metacam - I think I read about that somewhere. I'll take ehr to the vet but suspect he may not be able to come with anythhing concrete. She's full of beans and eating normally between episodes.

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Gastric stasis can occur from stress alone, or as a symptom of pain....from anywhere in the body...it may not be related to the metacam, although it is possible as a NSAID it should not be taken orally on an empty stomach much like us with ibuprofen - same class of drugs.
Do you give Zantac at the same time by any chance? This can help with the gastric issues of metacam. I would have a chat to the vet. Good luck

Liz (Hugo's There) posted a thread about long term use of a medication.. I think it *may* have been Baytril though..

I have used high doses of metacam on bunnies for over a year with no problems. I have never used zantac at the same time and I have never had any problems with stasis due to the use of metacam :? But again I have never had a bunny on it for 4 years, as none of my disabled bunnies have lived that long

I hope the vets are able to shead some light on Hazels problems. Good luck

I've only used it for as long as a year.

Thanks everybody. SHe's not eating much again tonight I've got a great vet who should be back from holiday this week so I'll get her straight down there.

Good luck and let us know the outcome as I would be particularly interested if they think it is down to metacam use :wave:

Think Zantac would be worth a try.

Or, could she be having some breakthrough pain? What dose of metacam has she been on for four years.

She's been on a maximum dose for several years now (0.5mlx2 daily). We have had to gradually increase the dose to keep her bum clean - she won't clean herself otherwise or eat all her caetrophes. She's eating today but not enthusiastically. I've a vet apt. Wed evening so fingers crossed. I expect he'll want to do blood tests. He has had buns on metacam long term before without ill effects (I've chatted about side effects with him). Hopefully he'll have some ideas - he knows his stuff but is happy to admit when he doesn't and is friends with all the rabbit vets in Britian I have ever heard of so he'll discuss it with them if necessary!
Having said that, it is depressing how little vets really seem to be able to do - he can get a diagnosis hopefully but, lets face it, treatment is either pain killer (which she is on), antibiotics (which is doesn't look like) or surgery (which almost never suceeds). I'm not feeling optimistic

I don't know about bunnies but I've got a ibuprofen related ulcer from 1 month of usage (sciatica)! Zantac helps me

bunnylover177 said:

She's been on a maximum dose for several years now (0.5mlx2 daily). We have had to gradually increase the dose to keep her bum clean - she won't clean herself otherwise or eat all her caetrophes. She's eating today but not enthusiastically. I've a vet apt. Wed evening so fingers crossed. I expect he'll want to do blood tests. He has had buns on metacam long term before without ill effects (I've chatted about side effects with him). Hopefully he'll have some ideas - he knows his stuff but is happy to admit when he doesn't and is friends with all the rabbit vets in Britian I have ever heard of so he'll discuss it with them if necessary!
Having said that, it is depressing how little vets really seem to be able to do - he can get a diagnosis hopefully but, lets face it, treatment is either pain killer (which she is on), antibiotics (which is doesn't look like) or surgery (which almost never suceeds). I'm not feeling optimistic

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How much does she weigh?

My Freddy has been on 0.4ml x2 daily for 15 months with no side effects and he weighs 850g. I wouldn't recommend this dose for every bun but this was the only way he would get any quality of life. I know the time will be here soon when the pain relief will no longer work and then we will be out of options as we cannot increase the dose beyond this but at least he has had a good quality of life up until now and that is all we can really do.

Wishing you all the best with your appointment wednesday

May I comment that a rabbit's gut behaves totally differently to human gut in so many ways, that we cannot draw a comparison. eg. a rabbit's stomach is normally so acidic it would rip the lining off a human stomach in less than 24hours! Zantac is prescribed in humans to reduce stomach acidity but in rabbits mainly to stimulate movement in the lower gut. I understand that stomach ulcers are rare in rabbits but can happen. I also thought that rabbits tolerated NSAI's much better than humans.

I wonder like prettylupin whether the disease process has progressed, eg nerve entrapment, so anti inflammatory drugs are not controlling this new type of pain.

I think you need a vets assessment here. Please keep us updated, & fingers crossed for you.

thumps_ said:

May I comment that a rabbit's gut behaves totally differently to human gut in so many ways, that we cannot draw a comparison. eg. a rabbit's stomach is normally so acidic it would rip the lining off a human stomach in less than 24hours! Zantac is prescribed in humans to reduce stomach acidity but in rabbits mainly to stimulate movement in the lower gut. I understand that stomach ulcers are rare in rabbits but can happen. I also thought that rabbits tolerated NSAI's much better than humans.

I wonder like prettylupin whether the disease process has progressed, eg nerve entrapment, so anti inflammatory drugs are not controlling this new type of pain.

I think you need a vets assessment here. Please keep us updated, & fingers crossed for you.

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I agree with Thumps, however, my vet did tell me also that Zantac has a protective effect on gastric acidity alongside metacam use - i'm not sure it's something he is certain of, perhaps there have not been any studies, but he has stressed before to me that Zantac does act primarily as a hindgut motility agent, but it is also thought to provide some gastric protection.... I do therefore use it if providing metacam....although in each of my situations the bloat has been secondary to ileus/stasis/impaction - and therefore the benefits of the hind-gut motility were also the reason I was using it.

I was originally prescribed zantac for my bunnies many years ago for gastric ulcers as at that point I don't think they were aware that it actually had any gut motility affects :?

I actually thought gastric ulcers were quite common in rabbits, but not as a side effect of metacam but as a result of stasis as once such a highly acidic stomach becomes empty the acid does cause the lining to ulcerate. These ulcers can easily start to bleed and cause the rabbit to become aneamic. I have had this happen more than once

thumps_ said:

May I comment that a rabbit's gut behaves totally differently to human gut in so many ways, that we cannot draw a comparison. eg. a rabbit's stomach is normally so acidic it would rip the lining off a human stomach in less than 24hours! Zantac is prescribed in humans to reduce stomach acidity but in rabbits mainly to stimulate movement in the lower gut. I understand that stomach ulcers are rare in rabbits but can happen. I also thought that rabbits tolerated NSAI's much better than humans.

I wonder like prettylupin whether the disease process has progressed, eg nerve entrapment, so anti inflammatory drugs are not controlling this new type of pain.

I think you need a vets assessment here. Please keep us updated, & fingers crossed for you.

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Thanks _ I'll mention zantic to the vet when I see him tomorrow. Hazel was just picking at (and chinning!) her food yesterday. This morning she is back to normal and scoffing it down. William (my vet) is definitely going to enjoy the challenge of figuring her out!

The mystery deepens! Hazel's blood results came back absolutely normal. She is pooing and peeing a bit and producing little poos. The vet says there is not much in her stomach/tubes so she has a reduced apetite but we don't know why. He was pretty adament that the metacam is unlikely to be the problem and says he has several rabbits on it for longer than Hazel's 3 years.

So now I'm wondering about her mental health. She ahs had her current companion (7 yrs old Woodstock) for over a year and seems to get on fine however Woodstock has a history of aggression with other rabbits so I wonder if there is some sort of falling out. Woodie also diesn't seem quite himself these days although he is eating but I assumed this was because of Hazel. She does ask Woodstock for licks but when I said that to the vet he commented that it could be a kind of 'abused wife syndrome'. So I've seperated ehr from Woodstock, given her lots of her favourite food but after a few hours she still wasn't eating so I've syringe fed ehr 20mls of Critical Care which she tool willingly and I'll see what happens next. The vet also put her on Maxolon (2mlsx3 a day) and Septrim as well as her regular metacam just to cover all the basis.

If she is still not eating tomorrow morning I'll take her back to the vet who could x-ray her and do a CAT scan to see if that shows up anything although that cost £150 and, as far as I understand, while it might diagonise a problem it probably won't find anything he could treat e.g.cancer. So I'm not usre about spending the money for something with no practical use (or am I wrong about that??).

Any comments would be really helpful. Has anyone else come across rabbits not eating for behavioural reasons alone?

bunnylover177 said:

Any comments would be really helpful. Has anyone else come across rabbits not eating for behavioural reasons alone?

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Mine won't eat if I stay away all night. We are a bonded pair!!!

IMO Tests which will not affect management are a very personal matter.
Personally, I can't afford them.

If Hazel and her companion are not actually fighting I would not separate them....separation anxiety as Thumps says can be enough to stop bunnies eating and bring on a bout of stasis by themselves. Our single house bun used to get stasis whenever we went away for a wknd...despite a very attentive bunny sitter calling in more times than we should have asked...stress plays a very big part in rabbit health and especially digestive health.

Good luck with whatever you decide investigation wise. I hope it all works out ok and Hazel feels better soon.

I took Hazel back to the vet this morning as she was worse - her stomach had swollen up. They x-rayed her and saw that there was some sort of blockage and swelling in her caecum. I asked them to put her to sleep. The postmortum looks like cancer of the caecum wall - they've sent it away for analysis. It was a real privilege to have Hazel in our lives - she'll never be forgotten.

bunnylover177 said:

I took Hazel back to the vet this morning as she was worse - her stomach had swollen up. They x-rayed her and saw that there was some sort of blockage and swelling in her caecum. I asked them to put her to sleep. The postmortum looks like cancer of the caecum wall - they've sent it away for analysis. It was a real privilege to have Hazel in our lives - she'll never be forgotten.

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I am so sorry