Bonding - my buns are weirdos! Help!

Also in Bonding & Behaviour but thought I'd add some pics.

Overview:
Started bonding Coco and Angel (house buns) 9am yesterday (sat), first 10mins were fine, then all hell let loose! They had a proper fight, rolling over not letting go and they even bust the NIC setup we had built - had no choice but to separate!

They have both previously been all over the house and Coco up at my mums too, so had to neutralise everywhere with vinegar rather than find somewhere new.

So, after half an hour of calming nerves and debating if to carry on we set up a more sturdy pen and started again, another few scuffles and fur pulling for a couple of hours but none since about mid afternoon.

Had a sleepless night for no reason - they didn't even chase and there has been zero humping, but here's the odd thing - maybe I've read wrong but don't they usually fight until they sort out dominance? Mine both seem to want to be submissive, both bow heads for each other and try and get affection but neither are giving it. They are sat with each other but no snuggling or grooming.

How do I progress now, they are going stir-crazy and giving me sad-eyes - they are currently in the hall, do I need to increase the space there or can I now put them in the dining room where they'll live?

Thanks and sorry for the detailed post. Pics below...

Before round 1..


and after!!


Both seem submissive...


Getting a bit closer yesterday...


and this is where we are at now...

bonding tends to take 3-5 days, and I wouldn't move them within that time frame.

How much space to they have? I normally start off with about 4ftx2ft, or maybe a bit smaller. There is no litter tray, toys or bowls, everything is on the floor to ensure both rabbits can have access to food if one gets dominant, I also have one water bottle per rabbit.

Both are neutered, yes?

Saying that, they seem to be at the right point for how long they have been together. To encourage grooming try a bit of mashed banana on each bun. they will want to lick it off!

Thanks lottielouise.
Yep both neutered, have waited about a month since Angel was done.

After the first attempt I removed the litter tray but then added it when I saw where they were mainly going to the loo and both have been using it to wee in, should I remove?

Space is about 4.5ft x 3ft and they have a bowl of water and I have been sprinkling food about for both to share.

Will try the banana thing thanks, was hoping to move them today whilst OH is at home incase of fighting but will wait another day or so as I've booked the week off just incase.

how about taking them for a drive together in the car for 10 mins? Then bring them back in & put them in the run / bonding area?

drpengie said:

how about taking them for a drive together in the car for 10 mins? Then bring them back in & put them in the run / bonding area?

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They've both been out in the car a few times though and it doesn't bother Angel at all - and she seems to be the stubborn one at the mo, Coco has keeps nudging her and doing happy flops next to her but she ain't interested!
Would it still be worth doing if it doesn't frighten them?

They look content to me! The final pic looks very promising. Don't expect too much too soon....not all buns groom and snuggle immediately after bonding. I would look at that pic and think success so far so just give them time, all relationships take time to grow - including us humans!
I agree about not rushing any new territory just yet - but have answered in other thread. Good luck with it all

Thanks for the advice Prettylupin, will just be more patient - I just thought that they sorted out straight away the heirarchy and then grooming etc would take any amount of time from then on. My 2 just both seem happy not to be dominant and haven't progressed for almost 24 hours.

No offence taken at all but can I just check why you think from my duplicate thread "The fact they aren't fighting now indicates that the initial upset has calmed and they are infact bonding but it would seem to me, without any offence meant, that you have rushed the bonding a little."

I read through tons of advice and experiences of various methods - do you mean after the initial fight or the method of keeping them together and not bonding for a short amount of time each day and increasing gradually?

Many thanks.

gkf9 said:

Thanks for the advice Prettylupin, will just be more patient - I just thought that they sorted out straight away the heirarchy and then grooming etc would take any amount of time from then on. My 2 just both seem happy not to be dominant and haven't progressed for almost 24 hours.

No offence taken at all but can I just check why you think from my duplicate thread "The fact they aren't fighting now indicates that the initial upset has calmed and they are infact bonding but it would seem to me, without any offence meant, that you have rushed the bonding a little."

I read through tons of advice and experiences of various methods - do you mean after the initial fight or the method of keeping them together and not bonding for a short amount of time each day and increasing gradually?

Many thanks.

Click to expand...

I think that perhaps I would have waited post-fight a little longer before reintroducing and then done it slowly from there because of the intial aggression you experienced, but that's just my personal opinion, I am just very aware of the impact of stress on bunny digestive systems. I also don't advocate car rides for bonding but this is just MY opinion. Anyway, what you have done seems to have worked now anyway...I hadn't seen your pics when I wrote this....and therefore my comment was irrelevant.
I'm pleased all has worked out now. They look like a lovely couple

Aww thanks, fingers crossed it does work out - seems an age since we got Angel 4 months ago and pictured them together, glad we are finally on with it.

PS - the banana thing didn't work, they had a sniff but then spent ages cleaning it off themselves and what was left has now gone brown and they are sat back to back. Awkward little buns. :lol:

Took me four weeks to bond my four!! Have to say i had an easy time with them as pairs though. Dont be tempted to increase the space too soon. If they like banana try abit of it on their heads to encourage grooming. Kepp going with the car rides or you could put them near the washing machine when its spinning/doing a cycle. Have you checked them over properly after the fight? That does set things back abit because they will both be defensive.

Putting their heads down is dominant behaviour, not submissive. Both your buns want to be top rabbit!

The stalemate will only end when one decides to groom the other...smear something tasty like banana or apple sauce on their heads if you have trouble again

abbymarysmokey said:

Putting their heads down is dominant behaviour, not submissive. Both your buns want to be top rabbit!

The stalemate will only end when one decides to groom the other...smear something tasty like banana or apple sauce on their heads if you have trouble again

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Oops, so much for doing my research I thought it meant they were bowing down to the other!

Tried the banana twice now - first time they just sat and cleaned it off themselves and second time Coco had a lick at Angel and then tried taking a bite - with fur (not aggressively).

Thanks NurseCroft, yes they were both fine after the initial fight. When I said they have been in the car, I meant on their own before bonding, didn't want to do it until a last resort as heard a lot of people disagree with it, but may give it a go tomorrow if it's still stalemate. :roll:

Putting your head to the floor is submissive in some circumstances and dominant in others, it depends on the circumstances. Submissive rabbits will lower their head to the floor in a bid to appear smaller and less threatening to an opponent or predator! Likewise a dominant rabbit may request to be groomed by lowering it's head. Out of context it is hard to tell which it is.