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Snowberry
25-06-2009, 05:55 PM
My vet has spoken to a specialist about Snowdrop who has advised us to keep a close eye on her and then take her straight down there if any of her symptoms flare up again. She has not passed any fluid with her faeces since the weekend and her poos are becoming more solid and normal shaped. She she passes some that are rugby ball shaped and slightly moist but the specialist doesnt think its an immediate concern. They do not think an xray would highlight anything important and the minute and said opening her up would be the best way to find out whats going on but I have said no to that.

Anyways I need to keep her on a really high fibre diet so does anyone know of any foods that have a high fibre content and are interesting for bunnies to eat? She already loves farm hay so I dont want to spend loads on different hays, especially as I work full time so ordering off the internet is difficult.

Lucy
25-06-2009, 05:58 PM
I asked the fosterer about the spay and she said one of the girls did need to go back in and have the wound resealed, but that shouldn't have had any long term effects. It may not even have been Snowdrop but she can't remember which one of the 3 it was. There was nothing that she could bring to mind that should have made any difference. I will call the vets tomorrow to get the neuter date, sorry been sooo busy.

hurricanhoney
25-06-2009, 05:58 PM
Hoping she continues to improve. What pellets is she on or have they advised to cut them out? Just wondering if you could get a higher fibre pellet.

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 05:59 PM
Hoping she continues to improve. What pellets is she on or have they advised to cut them out? Just wondering if you could get a higher fibre pellet.

She is on A&P- is there one with a higher fibre than that? She hardly gets any pellets anyways and eats loads of hay.

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 06:00 PM
I asked the fosterer about the spay and she said one of the girls did need to go back in and have the wound resealed, but that shouldn't have had any long term effects. It may not even have been Snowdrop but she can't remember which one of the 3 it was. There was nothing that she could bring to mind that should have made any difference. I will call the vets tomorrow to get the neuter date, sorry been sooo busy.

Thats ok Lucy dont worry. The vet mentioned something that could have come about after surgery but I cant remember what the word was! lol Something where the gut gets compressed slightly.

Lucy
25-06-2009, 06:01 PM
Thats ok Lucy dont worry. The vet mentioned something that could have come about after surgery but I cant remember what the word was! lol Something where the gut gets compressed slightly.

I think thats going to be guess work as there is nothing significant I can tell you really that could back that theory up :(

hurricanhoney
25-06-2009, 06:02 PM
She is on A&P- is there one with a higher fibre than that? She hardly gets any pellets anyways and eats loads of hay.

A & P are probably one of the higher fibre ones.

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 06:04 PM
I think thats going to be guess work as there is nothing significant I can tell you really that could back that theory up :(

Dont worry, it sounds as though she got through her spay ok so if she does need a GA in the future I will at least be slightly more confident about it.
For the minute we are leaving her be and keeping our fingers crossed she doesnt have another fluidy poo flare up.

biscuitblossom
25-06-2009, 06:04 PM
I think oxbow pellets are higher fibre than A&P....23% if i remember rightly

charlie82
25-06-2009, 06:08 PM
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1178

I use that to supplement feed if they need extra fibre :)

ETA The vets will sell it but they charge about 25 (well mine do!)

hurricanhoney
25-06-2009, 06:09 PM
http://www.galensgarden.co.uk/herbivores/rabbit/diet.php

Here's a link from Galens Garden. Perhaps pick some grass for her daily to add extra fibre.

Becky86
25-06-2009, 06:09 PM
Glad Snowdrop seems to be a little brighter :) Hope things keep looking up for her.

You ought to buy Readigrass as thats high in fibre :) Though it can only be fed in small amounts. Try your local pet shops for it, if you ask they may order it in. I pay 2.55 a bag and it lasts me a fair while :) Im guessing you pick normal grass anyway but its just something you could try xXx

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 06:13 PM
I do usually give them some fresh grass but I havent been doing while her tummy has been icky. Do you think its ok to start introducing grass again?

I will go to the farm shop on Saturday and see if they stock readigrass.

Lspacehopper
25-06-2009, 06:28 PM
I do usually give them some fresh grass but I havent been doing while her tummy has been icky. Do you think its ok to start introducing hay again?

I will go to the farm shop on Saturday and see if they stock readigrass.

I get readigrass at 2.10 per bag at Martins Farm at Calverton in case you're struggling to get hold of some x

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 06:49 PM
I get readigrass at 2.10 per bag at Martins Farm at Calverton in case you're struggling to get hold of some x

Thanks! I am going to do a little trip there on Saturday!

fionaw
25-06-2009, 07:08 PM
If you have several bunnies you can buy Readigrass by the bale for about 11, works out much cheaper than buying by the bag, as long as you can store it somewhere dry. Most horse feed suppliers stock it.

ecudc
25-06-2009, 07:38 PM
Hi hun, do you mean "is it ok to start introducing hay again" or do you mean grass? Even if she is feeling a little dodgy she should still be on hay all the time. If you typo'd and meant grass I would probably wait a little longer but a small handful of fresh parsley/strawberry leaves/blackberry leaves/trea leaves (not cherry, plum, laburnum, conifers or oak) would be good high fibre things to start her off on.

Jack's-Jane
25-06-2009, 07:42 PM
Personally I dont feed my Buns Readigrass. I have had too many cases of bloat as a result of it.

I'd opt for a variety of hays. The Hay Experts have a great selection

http://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/


I wonder if Snowdrop's problem is related to post surgical adhesions :?

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 07:44 PM
Hi hun, do you mean "is it ok to start introducing hay again" or do you mean grass? Even if she is feeling a little dodgy she should still be on hay all the time. If you typo'd and meant grass I would probably wait a little longer but a small handful of fresh parsley/strawberry leaves/blackberry leaves/trea leaves (not cherry, plum, laburnum, conifers or oak) would be good high fibre things to start her off on.

I meant grass sorry. She has been on loads of hay with a tablespoon of pellets for 2 weeks now.

I have a blackberry bush in the garden so will go get her some leaves later. Can they have the twigs from this?

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 07:46 PM
Personally I dont feed my Buns Readigrass. I have had too many cases of bloat as a result of it.

I'd opt for a variety of hays. The Hay Experts have a great selection

http://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/


I wonder if Snowdrop's problem is related to post surgical adhesions :?

That was the word she used that I couldnt remember!

The specialist things that could be it so she is on strict poo watch, a very careful diet and if she has another stasis/diahoreoa episode she has to go straight down there and they wil run tests.

Jack's-Jane
25-06-2009, 07:59 PM
That was the word she used that I couldnt remember!

The specialist things that could be it so she is on strict poo watch, a very careful diet and if she has another stasis/diahoreoa episode she has to go straight down there and they wil run tests.

Well if that is the problem the very last thing she needs is opening up again as that will just cause more adhesions to form.
Hopefully with careful dietary management Snowdrop will cope OK

xx

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 08:01 PM
Well if that is the problem the very last thing she needs is opening up again as that will just cause more adhesions to form.
Hopefully with careful dietary management Snowdrop will cope OK

xx

Thanks. Is there anything in particular I need to look out for?

Just had to go bring them in as my neighbour has thrown some carrot over the fence to them and I dont want her to have any!

clutterydrawer
25-06-2009, 08:06 PM
Nothign as such high fibre content as hay, as far as I know...but if you order some fancy hay from the hay experts they will dispatch it to arrive on a specific day if you ask them, i always used to ask for stuff to be delivered on my day off from work :)

Jack's-Jane
25-06-2009, 08:06 PM
Thanks. Is there anything in particular I need to look out for?

Just had to go bring them in as my neighbour has thrown some carrot over the fence to them and I dont want her to have any!

Just poo watch really. Get to know what is her 'normal'
Also, try to familiarise yourself of what her abdomen feels like. Maybe get your Vet to help you identify the various parts of the GI tract. Then you will be able to tell if things feel 'wrong' even if Snowdrop appears OK within herself.

I'd also make sure she has a good water intake.
Grooming her and Strawbs will help reduce the amount of fur she ingests.

xx

Snowberry
25-06-2009, 08:09 PM
Thanks. They both drink alot of water, they can get through one of the big bottles a day between them.

I will ask the vet to show me how to feel her abdomen next time I go in. I try to brush them but she moults soooo much. Will make sure I do it every day if its going to help.

thumps_
25-06-2009, 11:55 PM
Thumper needs a very high fiber diet indeed to keep his guts moving.

Moulting - need to brush both buns cos they'll groom each other. If they're getting fed up of brushing & moulting heavily I very gently ease fur out between index & mid finger where it's moulting alot, or damp my hands & stroke (you can use wet cotton gloves).

Deciduous tree leaves mentioned by educ are very high fiber. There is a dried mix of strawberry raspberry & bramble (very expensive). Raspberry leaves are said to improve gut motility in buns & guineas. Our mainstay are hawthorn (remove buds/flowers/& berries), Sloe (Blackthorn) - current years growth doesn't have thorns, bramble,& Raspberry when the PYO prune after fruiting, apple/pear twig bark in winter (find out when local orchard is being pruned/pub/ neighbour's fruit trees etc)

Bramble twigs are fine - I just "dethorn" them with stout gardening gloves.

As your buns drink water well, I suggest a probiotic in it - to keep gut bacteria healthy. It doesn't matter if both drink it.

Thumper can't have any sugar/starch - no fruit, red carrot, & spring greens/kale etc but he does have, parsley, corriander, chervil/cowparsley, marjoram, lavender, plantain, chickweed, dandelion, carrot leaves etc. instead.

I think that the aim of the high fiber diet is to get the hind gut back to normal size (am I right that your vet thought that it was a bit dilated?) It will work more efficiently then, & be less inclined to slow down.

If I were in your position, I would not want to give any gut motility drugs before a vet had examined Snowdrop, in case the bowel had twisted round an adhesion & blocked completely. (An adhesion is a strand of fibrous scar tissue in the abdominal cavity, because of a previous operation).
A dose of pain relief - metacam as soon as you think the gut is playing up helps a lot, & can't do harm.
Trying to get rid of gas also helps a lot - infacol or (gripe water Jack'-Jane)
Your vet may show you how to lift the hind legs to help Snowdrop pass wind.
There are many other techniques - massage - it's a case of what suits you both the best.

Now I know the problem I feel it's safer to make suggestions. They may not be possible where you live, but give you ideas to work on.

Reckon you're heading to be a consultant in bunny poops soon. :shock:
All the best. I'm keeping everything crossed for you. xxJudy & Thumperxx

Snowberry
27-06-2009, 08:48 AM
Well after a week of no fluid/diarrheoa we have gone backwards again.

Last night and this morning she has had two bouts of fluid/diarrhoea so I have had to clean her bum which she isnt impressed with.

Have called my vet but its not my usual one on so I am not going to take her in this morning as I doubt there is anything they would do to help.

I will make sure she is drinking plenty of fluids and keeps eating her hay. She is still eating fine and bright.

thumps_
27-06-2009, 02:42 PM
I'm just so sorry to hear this. :cry: A lot of people out here care! Everything crossed.

Lspacehopper
28-06-2009, 09:33 PM
How has she been today? x

Snowberry
28-06-2009, 09:36 PM
How has she been today? x

She is back to normal again today, been eating hay, blackberry leaves and a tablespoon of pellets. There seems to be no food trigger that is causing it.

I rang the vets on Saturday and made an appointment for tomorrow but if she stays the same I will cancel it.

Thanks for asking about her.

xxx

Lspacehopper
28-06-2009, 10:02 PM
She is back to normal again today, been eating hay, blackberry leaves and a tablespoon of pellets. There seems to be no food trigger that is causing it.

I rang the vets on Saturday and made an appointment for tomorrow but if she stays the same I will cancel it.

Thanks for asking about her.

xxx

Let's hope she gets back onto an even, consistent keel! x

Snowberry
28-06-2009, 10:05 PM
Let's hope she gets back onto an even, consistent keel! x

Yeh I hope so. She had been all week with proper solid poos but then went backwards yesterday morning.

Snowberry
29-06-2009, 05:36 PM
Had Snowdrop in the vets tonight for a check up and she has lost alot of weight. She was 2.2kg when last weighed and is now only 1.9kg. She is still eating well and bright.

My vet wants her off pellets and just on hay and recovery feed to see if we can get the pooing pattern to settle down but I am worried about her losing more weight if I take her pellets away. She does eat the hay.

I have to take a faecal sample in on Wednesday and take her back Friday to be re-weighed. She also had a temperature so had a shot of metacam to lower it. If the faecal sample doesnt bring anything up I am going to have to take her to a specialist.

giantbunnymummy
29-06-2009, 06:16 PM
Sorry to hear Snowdrop's losing weight :(

Hope the fecal sample test provides some answers and your vet can help her.

Jack's-Jane
29-06-2009, 06:19 PM
Could the weightloss be stress related :? You mentioned Strawberry chases her every morning :?

Snowberry
29-06-2009, 06:21 PM
Could the weightloss be stress related :? You mentioned Strawberry chases her every morning :?

I guess it could be I suppose. She is eating well.

Do you think I should separate them?

angeleyes
29-06-2009, 06:23 PM
Poor Snowdrop sending vibes for her x

Jack's-Jane
29-06-2009, 06:27 PM
I guess it could be I suppose. She is eating well.

Do you think I should separate them?

That would be a big step really :?
Are they alone unsupervised all day ? If so there may be alot more chasing going on than you actually witness.

I have two here who I am having to keep a very close eye on (Enya and Patrick) as Enya is such a moo and really bullies Patrick given half a chance. I *think* his recent episode of bloat may have been stress induced. They are not a closely bonded pair despite the fact that they are littermates. They seldom sit/sleep together and mostly keep out of each others way. I may eventually have to seperate them but I would only do so as a last resort.

Snowberry
29-06-2009, 06:32 PM
I work full time so they are alone all day. I have them free ranging all evening when I am home and never see any chasing, nor do I over night or at weekends. It just seems to be about 5.30-6 in the morning.

I would hate to have to split them but they have never been particularly close. They do lie together sometimes but spent alot of time apart too- especially when free ranging.

SarahP
29-06-2009, 06:45 PM
Personally I would try to take the vet's advice on hay only for a while, but to move there very gradually, so you can check that more hay is being eaten as the pellets are gradually withdrawn.

Is the chasing around feeding time? If so, I'm no expert but wouldn't think that was too much to worry about although, as you say, you're not around to watch them all day.

Snowberry
29-06-2009, 06:48 PM
We did a week of hay only a while ago and it made little difference. My vet wants me to do it again just some recovery food twice a day too while we wait for the results of a fecal sample to come back.

She is also starting on antibiotics after i have collected a decent sample incase it is bacteria related.

She is going back to the vets on Friday to be reweighed.

SarahP
29-06-2009, 06:52 PM
Have you tried Fibreplex? Apologies if this is going over very old ground!

Snowberry
29-06-2009, 06:56 PM
Have you tried Fibreplex? Apologies if this is going over very old ground!

Yeh we did a week of that and it made little difference. She hates being syringed so am trying not to have to do too much.

Dont worry, all suggestions are great as both me and my vet are baffled by it!

SarahP
29-06-2009, 06:59 PM
Doesn't sound like it's worth trying the hay only diet and risking the weight loss if you've already tried it. I guess the vet is just trying to minimise the risk.

Hopefully the test results will come back with something.

If you did want to try a further probiotic at some stage, a good one I've used is Entrodex. Here is a link:
http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/entrodex-probiotic_1_18900.html

Snowberry
29-06-2009, 07:03 PM
The vet just wants her on hay only while we get a fecal sample- she is eating lots of hay so shouldnt be losing weight on it.

Thanks for the link- will get some to keep in stock!

Becky86
29-06-2009, 07:29 PM
Poor girly :( I do hope the sample shows something, its very worrying :( Nose rubs to both the buns xXx