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Types of Fighting

sidereus7

Mama Doe
I was researching about bonding, and some people have said to let little scuffles happen unless it gets serious. I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between scuffling and seriously trying to hurt one another.

My bunnies fight kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybVb3t560oY

(Sorry, the video is funny too, but it shows the fighting I mean!)

Is this a scuffle or a serious fight? Also, can anyone explain to me what the other type of fighting will look like and how I can tell the difference?
 
:lol::lol::lol: Sorry, but this video is hilarious! As far as your question is concerned, I suppose serious fighting results to injury. I really hope that the rebonding works. :)

What kind of injury? My buns have blood drawn, but they look much like surface wounds. There has always been a big patch of fur missing where the wound is, so I wonder if they aren't just bleeding from fur being torn out.

And if only I had those chickens to keep my buns in line! :lol:
 
Well... wouldn't it be great if we could all have chickens like that to keep the peace :lol:

On a serious not, I did not like the way those rabbits were fighting, it did not end in blood shed as they were in a large space and had room to back away from each other, I don't know what would have happened had the chickens not intervened!

Personally, I think anything more than a little chasing and fur pulling I would not put up with. I don't think it's fair on the rabbits, and once blood has been shed I would not risk keeping the rabbits together unsupervised. That's just my opinion, but I can't keep count of the number of times people on here have left rabbits together overnight and come down to torn ears etc..
 
Personally, I think anything more than a little chasing and fur pulling I would not put up with. I don't think it's fair on the rabbits, and once blood has been shed I would not risk keeping the rabbits together unsupervised.

I agree with the above. Keep an eye on them, just in case.
 
I agree with the above. Keep an eye on them, just in case.

Yeah, right now I have them in cages next to each other when I'm not around. Otherwise they have supervised play time. There's been chasing, and hopping around each other like in the video, but no boxing or biting. I always stop it as soon as it starts, and they start grooming each other right after, then lay out next to one another.

I'm just trying to figure out what kind of fighting, if any, is "okay" in a bunny relationship. They just confuse me every day. :roll:
 
Yeah, right now I have them in cages next to each other when I'm not around. Otherwise they have supervised play time. There's been chasing, and hopping around each other like in the video, but no boxing or biting. I always stop it as soon as it starts, and they start grooming each other right after, then lay out next to one another.

I'm just trying to figure out what kind of fighting, if any, is "okay" in a bunny relationship. They just confuse me every day. :roll:

I think if bunny's are properly bonded you will not see that sort of behaviour. The only thing I think is relatively normal is a little bit of chasing around spring time.

You could try and rebond, but you may find that they never completely click together. When they start this 'fighting' behaviour you could deter them by spraying them with a water bottle. Keep on with the supervised sessions and perhaps one day they will stop this behaviour and bond properly.

While it is true that this sort of bonding will take longer, I think it is actually what suits some rabbits. You may find that a few months down the line they will be perfect with each other, or they could continue this behaviour, in which case I would call it a day! It's no good trying to get them together if you can't completely trust them.
 
I'm inclined to agree that without the chicken intervention that fight could have turned nasty. They were starting to try to lock on to each other - that's what I'd define as serious fighting. Captain Carrot plays the role of the chickens in my garden - bless him - but the fights we have are less serious, more like a couple of jumps and then one rabbit backs down/runs off. So like the start of the video but not getting as serious as this fight was pre-chicken intervention. I think that's because the hierarchy here is well established, so if a bun puts a foot wrong s/he knows it's doing it, and backs down quickly (especially when the long-eared orange bulk that is Captain Carrot starts looming over him/her!!).

If your two could decide once and for all who was boss they'd be okay... :? Meanwhile, if they flop next to each other, I'd keep trying, as long as it's safe to do so. I tend not to worry about tiny/surface scratches - my vet said with the number of rabbits I have it's inevitable (as it would be in the wild)but not a problem, as long as it never escalates. In fact maybe those minor nips are a necessary part of establishing the hierarchy and once they're through that stage they'll settle. I guess you keep interevening (understandably!) before they get through that stage, so they have to keep starting from scratch again. But judging it is a scary business because obviously you don't want either bun to suffer serious or near-serious injury. I'd let them do what they need to as long as there's no latching on (ie close, sustained contact). A few nips/jumps/running away is part of the hierarchy establishment process, IMO. But yes you'll need to be extremely vigilant. Two of mine were on the point of permanent separation but that skirmish turned out to be the decisive one, and they've never fought (touch wood) since - though they've certainly never been friendly like your two at other times, which makes me think there is hope for your two to bond...
 
:wave:

Haven't read the other posts so sorry if i am repeating!

When rabbits seriously fight, they will fight until death there is a big difference between a scuffle and a full on fight! A fighting rabbit will lock onto the neck of the other rabbit. Always ends in a death! :shock:

A scuffle, makes them look like they are chasing each other in circles! No blood should be drawn!

And everyone thinks bunnies are soft delicate creatures! :lol:
 
Minor fur pulling and the odd pounce is ok. As soon as I see tails up, head to bum sniffing, ears back/or lifting in lops or any sign of mounting within the first couple of days I intervene. No chasing or locking on at all. Perhaps interupting the natural process, but I have come to the conclusion that after finding me to be the unpredictable top bunny - and having any negative behaviour interupted, bonding goes better. I think that the sooner mounting/chasing etc happens the harder the bond will be as resentment / fear builds up quickly. If the buns can spend time together without any negative behaviour escalating - they get used to how to behave around eachother. Then if mounting or chasing happens after the first couple of days - the "victim" has built up a level of trust with the "aggressor" and doesn't find it quite so terrifying - as they do when meeting a new bun and being mounted/sniff examined etc all in the space of a couple of hours! The need to retaliate seems less, or if they do it's not quite as violently.

This is my experience/conclusion after trial and error - including 3 weeks of bonding my outdoor group who were real hard work!! The outdoor buns kicked out a member of the group after 5 weeks.. ripping his lip open and tearing his ear. Needless to say after 5 weeks they were trusted and not being supervised all day/night BUT it was the start of spring time.

I now think back to the bonding and there were signs of the head doe disliking this buck from the beginning. So after this I have always nipped any negativity in the bud especially in the first couple of days - until they settle down a bit. Allowing chasing/fur pulling etc to be a natural part of bonding - In my opinion - was what set up the bad vibes between my head doe and the buck she picked on/kicked out. So I try to interupt and not allow this behaviour with any buns I bond. It seems to work well.

Unfortunately being there to intervene at all times means the buns being supervised 24/7, sleepless nights and cat napping on the floor!
 
After reading all this and I agree with what people have said, it really depends on the buns. Wilm and my bridge bunny fought terribly on day 1 of bonding, locked on and everything, it was awful then overnight in a smaller space they fell head over hocks for each other and never even chased each other again!

Good luck with your rebond. I have to admit if it was me I would separate them. I think unless they have a really strong bond there's always going to be that risk :(
 
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:wave:

Haven't read the other posts so sorry if i am repeating!

When rabbits seriously fight, they will fight until death there is a big difference between a scuffle and a full on fight! A fighting rabbit will lock onto the neck of the other rabbit. Always ends in a death! :shock:

A scuffle, makes them look like they are chasing each other in circles! No blood should be drawn!

And everyone thinks bunnies are soft delicate creatures! :lol:

Thank you for reminding us of this. It is so difficult to understand that our lovely friends still have most of their "wildie" rabbit behaviour intact.

Am I right that Milo was 8 weeks when introduced to Eddison & is now about 2 yrs, & that aggression keeps breaking out?
I'm concerned that neither bun seems to have accepted the other as "top bun" or is prepared to submit to the other after a considerable period of time. I suspect that the grooming could just be saying "OK we'll call it quits for today & resume combat another day" i.e. a temporary truce rather than a true friendship bond.
IF I'm right I'm concerned that this could easily degenerate into fighting with serious injury.
Dare I say that it would not surprise me if rabbit "personality clash" could be the basic issue here.
 
The only "fighting" I would find acceptable in a bonded pair would be when the same rabbit occassionally chases the other bunny and the other bunny always runs away and never turns head on, and possibly a bit of fur nipped from the bum. But even then I would be very wary :?

Expecting bunnies to live with the relationship they have in that video clip is completely unacceptable. The stress they must be under must be terrible :cry:


Obviously you would expect more scuffles during the bonding process but definately not once they are considered to be bonded
 
I guess one huge difference is that my bonded pairs never fight, even a little; the scuffles are between group members, and never end in latching on. I just want it to work for your two though; they're both so gorgeous :(
 
usually a little chasing & humping is ok and occassionally one bun may turn around and give someone's bum a nip. This can continue for up to about a month in a very difficult bond but should gradually get better and better. Usually it will stop after the 1st few days.

That fight looked more serious as you could tell that one was about to turn and lock on. Basically if it starts to look like something out of the matrix you need to step in. I wouldn't leave a bun unsupervised if their interaction was anything like that. If you were still having that sort of interaction after a 24/48 hours I would either accept defeat or turn to a rescue and completely neutral space to have a go.
 
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