Dried grass question

I despirately need to clear the top half of my garden and am planning to go out soon and do it. The grass up there is as tall as me in some places (5 foot 8) and it has flowered on the top. I have been feeding some of this to ruby (which i hope is OK with the flowering, she seems to like it but does prefer the nice grass out the front garden more), and i was wondering rather than it all going to waste at the tip, whehter if i dried it in the sun i could still feed it to her, it would be like hay wouldn't it? (sorry if this is a bit thick, but hay is dried grass, right?)

Just wanted to check it wouldn't do her any harm. I have figured i would have enough to keep her going for about a month if it is OK to use!

beki said:

I despirately need to clear the top half of my garden and am planning to go out soon and do it. The grass up there is as tall as me in some places (5 foot 8) and it has flowered on the top. I have been feeding some of this to ruby (which i hope is OK with the flowering, she seems to like it but does prefer the nice grass out the front garden more), and i was wondering rather than it all going to waste at the tip, whehter if i dried it in the sun i could still feed it to her, it would be like hay wouldn't it? (sorry if this is a bit thick, but hay is dried grass, right?)

Just wanted to check it wouldn't do her any harm. I have figured i would have enough to keep her going for about a month if it is OK to use!

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She will love it. Just check there's no toxic weeds like ragwort mixed in with the grass. You need to make sure it's thoroughly dried though. Probably be easier to dry it upright, rather than flat on the ground, as its so long. Lucky Ruby.

thanks for the quick reply! i will be very careful about the weeds, i know we have brambles, knotweed, ivy and rubarb in there but i will make sure i separate them all. Its so long i was planning on grabbing the grass from about half way up and pulling it, the other weeds are not that high so it should come out mainly as grass and when that is gone i should be able to clear the other weeds.

Hopefully before long i can put some grass seed down and she can play on there rather than the patio slabs.

ack! i didn't know what ragwort was, but i have just checked online and it looks suspiciously like this stuff growing out of the concrete by my outhouses and on the site of my old greenhouse, i had better get this out as soon as possible i think!

beki said:

thanks for the quick reply! i will be very careful about the weeds, i know we have brambles, knotweed, ivy and rubarb in there but i will make sure i separate them all. Its so long i was planning on grabbing the grass from about half way up and pulling it, the other weeds are not that high so it should come out mainly as grass and when that is gone i should be able to clear the other weeds.

Hopefully before long i can put some grass seed down and she can play on there rather than the patio slabs.

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Knotgrass is fine (rabbits usually like it) as are buttercups, but ONLY when totally dried. Ivy and rhubarb are toxic. You probably have a type of plantain growing near the greenhouse. Both types are fine in small amounts, or it might be a plant called nipplewort, which is also fine.
http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/nipplewort.htm

You will also need a large tube of Ralgex for your back.

lol about the ralgex! i only cleared about a meter square of the grass and i have a sore shoulder, but already a big bunch of grass that i have tied togehter and propped up against the fence, hope it dries like that.

The whole garden is riddled with ragwort! big ones too! nothing pretty like buttercups or dasies like out the front of the house. I think a bit of heavy duty weed killer is in order, and no critter contact with the area for a long long time! it will hopefully be a wasteland when i have finished and wouldn't be much fun to play on anyway.

all i wanted was a nice garden, but without all of the work

beki said:

lol about the ralgex! i only cleared about a meter square of the grass and i have a sore shoulder, but already a big bunch of grass that i have tied togehter and propped up against the fence, hope it dries like that.

The whole garden is riddled with ragwort! big ones too! nothing pretty like buttercups or dasies like out the front of the house. I think a bit of heavy duty weed killer is in order, and no critter contact with the area for a long long time! it will hopefully be a wasteland when i have finished and wouldn't be much fun to play on anyway.

all i wanted was a nice garden, but without all of the work

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Its a real shame you have so much ragwort. Make sure you wear strong gloves and cover arms and legs, as it's toxic to us aswell. I'm not sure weedkiller will help.Any root fragments that are left behind after pulling will regenerate, so you will need to spray any new growth, or carry on pulling for a year or four until it's all removed.
Your hay will dry ok, as long as it isn't tied too tightly in the middle, and you keep turning it.
Look on the brightside. It will take a lot of work, but you will end up with a lovely garden, and a free pair of very impressive biceps.

coming from a paranoid horse owner, ragwort is best pulled up by hand with gloves etc on, making sure you get every last bit including roots. it seeds everywhere so you'll be pulling it up for years, but its not nice stuff. weedkillers can kill it, but animals will readily eat the dead plant and dried seeds can then grow even if they were covered in poison. i tend to remove it (patrols of 4 acres of horses fields every day gets a few) put it in a metal barrel and burn it in a place where nothing can get to the ashes. its not something i would put on a compost heap or anything.

Ragwort that is not dried should be no problem for rabbits.
One of the signs of a site that is heavily grazed by wild rabbits is that the ragwort grows well because they will not touch it.

There is an urban myth that you can be poisoned by touching ragwort.
It isn't true. A tiny amount of the alkaloids that are in ragwort can be absorbed but they are harmless. The toxins have to be activated in the gut before they become dangerous.

There are a lot of exaggerations about this plant

See the following sites:-

Ragwort is it as bad as you think!
Ragwort the myths and the hoaxes debunked.
Ragwort, myths and facts
Buglife | Ragwort | Ragwort: Yellow Peril or Precious Flower?

The top of a (mesh) rabbit run is a good place to dry grass. The air can get all around so you don't get a damp patch underneath and it doesn't matter if they pull a bit through to nibble.

A well-meaning friend gave a my guinea pig ragwort (she mistook it for grounsel) The guinea pig died

cwningen said:

Ragwort that is not dried should be no problem for rabbits.
One of the signs of a site that is heavily grazed by wild rabbits is that the ragwort grows well because they will not touch it.

There is an urban myth that you can be poisoned by touching ragwort.
It isn't true. A tiny amount of the alkaloids that are in ragwort can be absorbed but they are harmless. The toxins have to be activated in the gut before they become dangerous.

There are a lot of exaggerations about this plant

See the following sites:-

Ragwort is it as bad as you think!
Ragwort the myths and the hoaxes debunked.
Ragwort, myths and facts
Buglife | Ragwort | Ragwort: Yellow Peril or Precious Flower?

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DEFRA, and the W.H.O. disagree with you. Both organisations say that strong gloves should be worn, arms and legs must be covered, and face masks should be worn, to prevent inhalation of pollen. Why would two scientific bodies produce papers about ragworts control, toxicity, and human safety precautions during removal, based on myth?
One of the sites you linked to states, " Eating large quantities of ragwort in the order of several kilograms of weight might well do harm to someone." Stupid, flippant, and very dangerous comments :evil:

Mudgy: I agree used to work at a riding stables and ragwort brought me out in a rash and made me feel as if I had sunstroke.

There is a lot of debate about rabbits and ragwort but having researched what it can do to horses for an exam I would pull it out with gloves on and get rid of it!!!

Mudgy said:

DEFRA, and the W.H.O. disagree with you. Both organisations say that strong gloves should be worn, arms and legs must be covered, and face masks should be worn, to prevent inhalation of pollen. Why would two scientific bodies produce papers about ragworts control, toxicity, and human safety precautions during removal, based on myth?
One of the sites you linked to states, " Eating large quantities of ragwort in the order of several kilograms of weight might well do harm to someone." Stupid, flippant, and very dangerous comments :evil:

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It is a myth that ragwort is seriously harmful to humans.
You say you must be right because someone in AUTHORITY says so. This is faulty logic. The facts determine things not who says them. These are not scientific organisations but governmental organisations. There is a lot of misleading info on the DEFRA site.

Take a look at this. This site is written by a horse owner in the Netherlands where the panic about ragwort has spread from the UK.
She was actually a member of a ragwort extermination group until she asked for some scientists for help. She discovered what she was told was nonsense and gathered an international group of experts to help her debunk the myths.
http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=6

Ragwort The Science. Why it doesn't harm humans.


Ragwort poisoning in humans. An Urban Myth

As for people getting rashes, these happen with a lot of members of the daisy family. They are an allergic reaction and have nothing to do with the chemicals in ragwort that damage the liver.

cwningen said:

It is a myth that ragwort is seriously harmful to humans.
You say you must be right because someone in AUTHORITY says so. This is faulty logic. The facts determine things not who says them. These are not scientific organisations but governmental organisations. There is a lot of misleading info on the DEFRA site.

Take a look at this. This site is written by a horse owner in the Netherlands where the panic about ragwort has spread from the UK.
She was actually a member of a ragwort extermination group until she asked for some scientists for help. She discovered what she was told was nonsense and gathered an international group of experts to help her debunk the myths.
http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=6

Ragwort The Science. Why it doesn't harm humans.


Ragwort poisoning in humans. An Urban Myth

As for people getting rashes, these happen with a lot of members of the daisy family. They are an allergic reaction and have nothing to do with the chemicals in ragwort that damage the liver.

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I don't think I said I must be right, and it's extremely presumptious of you to assume I'm persuaded in the least by authority. Quite the opposite. There is no fault in my logic, but you can't really expect me to take seriously, this type of comment, in one of your links? " I get this information from reading lots of scientific books and papers written by experts who have studied things and had their research checked by other experts before they were published." Actually, I'm being unfair, as that was one of the more profound pieces of wisdom.

I didn't feel much of a warm rosy glow of comfort at the closing line of your scientific link either, "Relax and enjoy your life. I'm sure you're going to be fine." I kept asking myself, how does he know I'll be fine, did he read lots of scientific books and papers written by experts who have studied things and had their research checked by other experts before they were published?

So, call me a meany if you like, and I apologise in advance, to all the Cinnabar Moths I will make homeless, and hungry tomorrow, but I prefer my liver damage to come out of a nice bottle of red.

lilbun said:

A well-meaning friend gave a my guinea pig ragwort (she mistook it for grounsel) The guinea pig died

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I'm sorry to hear about your guinea pig but are you really sure what killed it?

Groundsel contains the same kinds of alkaloids that ragwort does.
The two plants are actually quite closely related. The alkaloids occur in about 3% of the world's plants. They don't necessarily affect all animals equally.
Different animals have different metabolisms. For example Guinea Pigs like humans, apes and monkeys need vitamin C in their diet. Most animals make their own.

cwningen said:

I'm sorry to hear about your guinea pig but are you really sure what killed it?

Groundsel contains the same kinds of alkaloids that ragwort does.
The two plants are actually quite closely related. The alkaloids occur in about 3% of the world's plants. They don't necessarily affect all animals equally.
Different animals have different metabolisms. For example Guinea Pigs like humans, apes and monkeys need vitamin C in their diet. Most animals make their own.

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Having now looked at the scientific literature I am very sure of this.
There were some rather cruel experiments done but they do establish that
Guinea Pigs are resistant to ragwort.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/55/6/1411

This is why we have to be so careful about the science and not just listen to scare stories. Something killed your Guinea Pig but we know it wasn't the ragwort now unless there was an enormous amount. Another animal might die of the same unknown cause which by blaming the wrong thing we have missed.

cwningen said:

Having now looked at the scientific literature I am very sure of this.
There were some rather cruel experiments done but they do establish that
Guinea Pigs are resistant to ragwort.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/55/6/1411

This is why we have to be so careful about the science and not just listen to scare stories. Something killed your Guinea Pig but we know it wasn't the ragwort now unless there was an enormous amount. Another animal might die of the same unknown cause which by blaming the wrong thing we have missed.

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Do I know for sure that ragwort was the cause of death? No.

All I know for sure is that the guinea pig (one of 3) appeared to be in good health, was greedy, and was about 2 years old. I was given a bag of 'groundsel' to feed them, which I put in my kitchen to check through and wash later. Unfortunately my mum found it and fed some of it to the pigs. I found the pig dead some hours later, with green stuff around it's mouth. The remainer of the bag contents proved to be a mixture of ragwort and groundsel.
So it is possible, I suppose that something else killed the guinea pig.
But I will NEVER allow ragwort in my garden again as I don't wish to be the one testing the lethal dose of ragwort on my animals

cwningen said:

Having now looked at the scientific literature I am very sure of this.
There were some rather cruel experiments done but they do establish that
Guinea Pigs are resistant to ragwort.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/55/6/1411

This is why we have to be so careful about the science and not just listen to scare stories. Something killed your Guinea Pig but we know it wasn't the ragwort now unless there was an enormous amount. Another animal might die of the same unknown cause which by blaming the wrong thing we have missed.

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Good grief !! We don't "know", that lilbuns guinea pig didn't die as a result of PA toxicity, and we never will.
Next you'll be suggesting we feed Deadly Nightshade to our rabbits, because "some" rabbits have atropinesterase in their serum, and are resistant/immune to it's toxicity.

Whether you like it or not, the government of this country made it an offence, not to remove and destroy ragwort growing on your land. They did it for a very good reason.

Mudgy said:

Good grief !! We don't "know", that lilbuns guinea pig didn't die as a result of PA toxicity, and we never will.
Next you'll be suggesting we feed Deadly Nightshade to our rabbits, because "some" rabbits have atropinesterase in their serum, and are resistant/immune to it's toxicity.

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I don't think you understand science very well. Earlier on you poked fun at a simple explanation of how science is published , written for a child to understand.

The science has been done. Guinea Pigs have resistance. What is more the description of the death doesn't fit the destruction of the liver that occurs with PAs. They take some days to kill. Paracetamol damages the liver and that is why it is so dangerous in overdose. People take it. It kills their liver but it takes days for the toxic effect to show.

So what is more likely is that there is something else out there that is a danger to Lilibuns' other Guinea Pigs.

Whether you like it or not, the government of this country made it an offence, not to remove and destroy ragwort growing on your land. They did it for a very good reason.

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WRONG!!
You are arguing from authority again! It is a logical fallacy as anyone properly trained in science knows. Governments frequently get things wrong like, for example, setting up rules for MPs claiming their expenses. You should look at the facts and the evidence not what you think, incorrectly in this case, someone in authority thinks.

This is WRONG. I would suggest before you debate with someone and they provide you with a set of of links that you read them properly. It saves embarrassment. I have provided you with copies of the actual acts of parliament. You should have read them first. It is not an offence to have ragwort growing on your land. In fact the official guidance says that it should not be exterminated everywhere. Under extreme circumstances the government has the power to order you to control it but in the absence of an order it is perfectly legal to have it on your land. The power exists to implement an order to ban your kids from the street or to prevent you parking in some places but in the absence of an order, kids can congregate in the street and you can park where you want to.

Ragwort and the Law The Weeds Act 1959