help bunny not eating and has pus on tongue..

Our rabbit, Luna hasn't been eating and pooping much so we took her to vet for checkup as we suspect that it might be due to her teeth, when he opened Luna's mouth it turn out that her rear teeth are fine but she has a pus on her tongue that might be the cause of her discomfort in eating, here's the pic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8300753@N05/3610656278/

Uhm,anyone who have handled or experienced the same condition, Please, please give us advise or suggestions on how to handle this? Does the pus will be totally eliminated if we inject antibiotic like Penicillin for instance? or do we need to remove it? which we think is quite impossible as the pus is located to her tongue? this is totally knew to us and unfortunately new to our vet also(his the only vet we found after searching and visiting all veterinary clinics within our city)


We also have another problem, Luna isn't eating much so we've been feeding her through syringe(mixture of water and pellets). she's drinking on her own regularly though. Since Monday, shes been producing one or two poops that looks like grapes and has bad smell, she also let out this poop:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8300753@N05/3616070019/
which made us worry even more.. we massage her and she allow us for a while, we noted that her tummy feels kinda hard and when i "flick" it sounds like i was flicking a drum or something, does that mean she's boated? is it okay for us to massage her even when she's bloated?


I'm only new here and I'm already asking so many questions, i deeply apologize for being persistent.. and thank you in advance

I havent got a clue but you need to see a RABBIT savvy vet ASAP It doesnt sound good at all and the pic looks horrible Poor bunny sending loads of vibes x

ETA: Yes your rabbit sounds bloated if their tummies hard and is the rabbits teeth got spurs? They could have cut the tounge causing the pus?

It would be helpful if you told us where you are, I take it you are not in the UK? and someone may be able to direct you to a vet more experienced with rabbits.

I think you may be dealing with two problems.

It sounds as though she has an abscess on her tongue. This may well require surgical intervention aswell as systemic antibiotics and PAIN RELIEF

The fact that her guts have been very empty due to not eating has now caused her GI tract to stop working- GI stasis.
The mucus covered soft faeces could possibly indicate that she now has an overgrowth of 'bad' gut bacteria and this is extremely serious. The 'drum sound' when you flick her abdomen is also something that can occur in cases of mucoid enteritis caused by gut dysbiosis (overgrowth of bad bacteria as previously mentioned). The Rabbit's abdomen may also sound to be full of fluid, rather like a hot water bottle when shaken.

What country are you in ?

Your Rabbit really does need Veterinary treatment ASAP.

as i've said above we have visited all the veterinary clinics that we could find in our area, suddenly most of then doesn't handle rabbit and our vet is the only one who have handled rabbits before, but unfortunately he said that he haven't encountered this kind of condition before, so we need every bits of information regarding this. we live here in Davao City, Philippines.

uhm, is it okay to treat both; not eating pooping and the pus on her tongue together? or is it more preferable to cure one before the other?

Has your bunny been given pain relief? If your bunny is in pain she will not eat.

I would think that both need to be treated together...it sounds like the stasis is caused by her poorly mouth.

This article has lots of info on stasis:
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

This article has info on antibiotics:
http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html

Have you been trying to tempt her with all her favourite foods? Fresh herbs can sometimes tempt bunny to eat. You could also syringe feed her probiotics to encourage healthy bacteria in her tummy. She may also be dehydrated and will need subcutaneous fluids to help with this.

I really hope Luna will be ok

xxx

ETA... Would your vet be able to consult with another vet that has more experience of rabbits?

You need to get your vet to treat BOTH of these problems at the same time as they are related to each other most likely. A sore mouth will be very painful for your bunny and make them not want to eat properly, and with rabbits it is very important that they keep eating regularly.

Can you get back to your vet now without too much stress to your rabbit?

If your vet is not familiar with rabbits can he look them up in a veterinary textbook? The article links posted above might also help your vet.
It is possible the sore mouth/tonuge is related to poor dental health and 'molar spurs' at the back of the mouth you can't see on the molar teeth which might have cut your bunny's tongue. Your vet would have to use a special scope to view your bunny's back teeth.

If your bunny is not eating the most important thing first of all is painkillers and hydration. Hydrating a sick rabbit is like hydrating any mammal so if your vet knows how to give sub-cutaneous fluids then this would be very helpful. Meanwhile you will need to continue to feed your bunny by syringe if you can (mushed pellets and water if this is all you have) as it's really important that you keep food passing through your bunny's tummy. If your vet has any suitable painkiller's for a rabbit it would be helpful for him to give these as well. It is likely he will need to find a suitable antibiotic as well to treat the infection on your rabbit's tongue/mouth. Penicillin type antibiotics must be used with caution and only by injection, not orally, but there are other oral antibiotics that are fine. The link given should explain it all.

Try and keep your bunny comfortable, warm and calm inbetween syringing water and food every (2-4 hrs) You need to keep feeding your bunny until they feel like eating themselves and so, as suggested, keep tempting them with their favourite foods! Gently massaging the tummy before every feed is a good idea. Good luck

i have already given one of the links above to him(the miami edu one) we sure hope that he look at it..

no, we haven't give Luna any painkillers i suggested metacam via oral but our vet said he doesn't advice any oral meds to rabbits as it may kill the good bacteria in tummy and he doesn't have metacam anyway..

any suggestion on painkiller that could be given via injection?..

i have already given one of the links above to him(the miami edu one) we sure hope that he look at it..

no, we haven't give Luna any painkillers i suggested metacam via oral but our vet said he doesn't advice any oral meds to rabbits as it may kill the good bacteria in tummy and he doesn't have metacam anyway..

any suggestion on painkiller that could be given via injection?..

PS. thankfully she drinks lots of water on her own so we think dehydration isn't one of the problems..

Has she drunk any water today? Sick buns get dehydrated very quickly!! So even if she may not seem dehydrated, rehdyration is one of the methods used to stimulate gut motility. Ask the vet to do a sort of 'pinch test' not very accurate, but might give an idea if she is dehydrated.
Infection on the tongue will be very painful and so will a bloated tummy - it is agony for rabbits. Rabbits ALWAYS eat unless there is something wrong and they would have to have a LOT of pain not to eat. Do not underestimate the pain a rabbit can have, they just won't show it as they are prey animals.
Metacam/Meloxicam oral would be helpful. If not your vet should have an appropriate injectable NSAID for small animals or an injectable opiate - over here they use one called Vetergesic. Your bunny NEEDS a painkiller and it is up to your vet to find one suitable from his textbooks or looking it up online. Without pain relief your bunny will find it very hard to eat and if a rabbit doesn't eat for more than 12 hours then they are at risk of hepatic lipidosis and acute renal failure (fatty liver and kidney failure) - this is not to scare you but for you to pass on to encourage your vet to take this seriously and find some appropriate medicines for your rabbit! Today! Bloat and stasis is extremely serious in rabbits and your bunny needs treatment right now!
I hope you can persuade your vet for some help today, good luck

thank you so much for the link with list of antibiotics, just visited it and its so informative, well definitely give this to our vet, hopefully he'll look it up..

By the way, the painkillers do not kill the bacteria in the tummy, that is usually a complication of antibiotics. Yes NSAID's like Metacam can make the tummy sore but only orally. Injectable painkillers won't have this complication as long as he is able to correctly dose a rabbit with a suitable drug.
Antibiotics do kill off the good bacteria in the caecum but when a rabbit has pus and this sort of infection then they are essential. You would have to give a probiotic medicine at the same time to help put good bacteria back in the tummy. Have a look online for avipro, biolapis or protexin-fibreplex for rabbits if your vet has nothing in his surgery suitable.

seiya87 said:

i have already given one of the links above to him(the miami edu one) we sure hope that he look at it..

no, we haven't give Luna any painkillers i suggested metacam via oral but our vet said he doesn't advice any oral meds to rabbits as it may kill the good bacteria in tummy and he doesn't have metacam anyway..

any suggestion on painkiller that could be given via injection?..

PS. thankfully she drinks lots of water on her own so we think dehydration isn't one of the problems..

Click to expand...

The drug names may be different in your country, I can't find much info on the net for types of pain relief used in rabbits. I have found this, which may be helpful:

http://www.rabbit.org/health/pain.html

According to my book 'rabbit health in the 21st century'':

Metacam is also called Meloxicam...and it can be injected

Other NSAIDs safe for buns are:

Rimadyl..also know as carprofen

and Banamine (flunixin meglumine)

Narcotics can be given to bunnies...they are stronger but these will make them sleepy though. Examples are Buprenex (buprenorphine) and Torbugesic (butorphanol).

I would go back to the vet asap and ask for pain relief, fluids and antibiotics to treat the infection in her tongue. (ORAL penicillen should never be given to a rabbit).

Keep syringe feeding her and tempting her with foods in the meantime.

prettylupin, yes she have drink lots of water, we'll ask our vet to do the flinch test and hopefully he knows whether she's dehydrated or not, we trully hope she's not dehydrated though.. unfortunately, it takes 3 more hours before they'll open and we have to wait until then..

we are currently feeding Luna mixture of pellets and water through syringe.. we truly hope for more normal poop to come out soon..

marleyandme, this we're given to me in the other rabbit site as painkillers:

1) Non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drugs (NSAIDS) (painkillers).
These are generally well tolerated by rabbits
Doses:
Carprofen = 2-4mg/kg via sub cutaneous injection once every 24 hours.
Meloxicam (metacam) = 0.1 - 0.2mg/kg via oral syrup or sub cut injection once every 24hours.
Ketoprofen 1-3mg/kg orally once every 12 hours.

we we're hoping to find ones that could be injected as our vet is really reluctant to give oral meds and unfortunately the ones above via injection is not available .. :C

Jack's-Jane said:

I think you may be dealing with two problems.

It sounds as though she has an abscess on her tongue. This may well require surgical intervention aswell as systemic antibiotics and PAIN RELIEF

Click to expand...

uhmn, we were wondering where the antibiotic is injected? is it injected directly on the infected area? or is it injected on other part of her body? what comes first; is it to inject her with antibiotic then surgery or surgery first before administering antibiotics? does the infected area needed to be completely remove? or there are chances that it would gradually disappear on its own with the help of antibiotics?

the infected area in located on her tongue so it worries us so much that it would affect her way of eating, if its removed..

seiya87 said:

marleyandme, this we're given to me in the other rabbit site as painkillers:

1) Non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drugs (NSAIDS) (painkillers).
These are generally well tolerated by rabbits
Doses:
Carprofen = 2-4mg/kg via sub cutaneous injection once every 24 hours.
Meloxicam (metacam) = 0.1 - 0.2mg/kg via oral syrup or sub cut injection once every 24hours.
Ketoprofen 1-3mg/kg orally once every 12 hours.

we we're hoping to find ones that could be injected as our vet is really reluctant to give oral meds and unfortunately the ones above via injection is not available .. :C

Click to expand...

\what you have above seems correct to me, here in the UK the normal route is Metacam/Meloxicam orally or injectable or the Vetergesic injected opiate which is the Buprenorphine that Marley and Me suggests from her book. Hopefully from all this info above your vet can find something suitable.
I'd have though the most important things for your vet to do in the morning is administer painkiller, antibiotic and fluids for now, and think about what sort if any surgery can be done for the infection? Jack'sJane can probably advise you on this better. I expect the ideal would be to try the antibiotics for a course first and see if they clear up the infection without surgery, but it may not be possible.

In the meantime, before your vet opens, just keep going with the syringe feeding, if you make the pellets a little more watery it might get some extra fluids into Luna, but generally sick buns are more likely to syringe well if the mixture is slightly crunchy. If she will take a little watery then give it a go just to keep her hydrated as well, but do it very slowly. Just keep going! you're doing really well
It may be a few hours until anyone else on here replies - it is the middle of the night here in the UK! so don't panic, i'm sure some people will be back in the morning to help you. Good luck with your vet.

oh.. we apologize for disturbing so late, you guyz are so good replying even if it late already.. we truly thank you for that..

we'll still update regularly though just in case someone is already up..

hello guyz just talk with the vet through phone and he said he'll administer Oxytetraclycline via injection for antibiotics.

we've read from this site: http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html

that Oxytetraclycline isn't good when taken orally, don't know if its okay if it's injected. he said that his open for suggestions though.

guyz, what you think?..

PS. for the pain med he said he'd give Flugesic..

Bump