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At Wit's end, Rabbit becomes UN Litter trained in bedroom

LexLuv101

New Kit
I have had Kirby for about a year now and overall its been a wonderful experience. I've had a lot of buns in my past and this is my first one again for years for me and my son. I have to say Kirby is so affectionate, sweet, and amazing and we love the little monster to death.

Here lies the issue. Finally, after months, we have Kirby litter trained. The rabbit has a strange attraction to fabric. Every since he was a baby he would choose to drop his pellets and urine on anything with fabric (at first carpet, rugs, clothes, the couch, and my bed) Yuck, I know. I figured out to place a litter box where he was used to going, and then placing an old towel in there. I have to wash it every other day as you can imagine but he uses it for about six months now and it works well. If the litter box is not in the room then he will just go on the floor of course, but overall he is litter trained with the inevitable droppings around the litter box.

Here's the issue though. Because of changes in the house right now Kirby cannot be let roam much in the main house and so I was keeping him in our bedroom, where its safe for the little monster to play about. It worked out really well for two days with him coming to visit in bed and cuddling, having his spots to lay and play...but he WONT use his litter box AT ALL in the room. I figured out he was going under the bed for some reason. Then, it happened. The rabbit went on the bed!!:oops: Of course this is disgusting and I can't have that so I put him back in the cage, wondering why he didnt do that for two days and then, blach.

Well, last night tried it again and this time he went for half a day and a night, but went in this morning and there is rabbit droppings and urine all over the bed. :oops: I threw the stuff in the washer, scrubbed down the mattress with bleach and water, and back in the cage Kirby went.

I just dont understand why he refuses to use his litter box in the bedroom. This is an important thing, though, because I cant stand leaving the poor thing in his cage all the time :( We LOVE having him free to play and cuddle with us, and being such an affectionate rabbit he craves this and loves it too, but... :(

Oh, and for your cute Kirby reference:

10i5h7k.jpg
 
Hi:)

He is a very cute bunny :) Is he neutered?

xx

Thanks :) No sadly he is not yet neutered. Actually I am not sure if it is a he or she lol. I keep thinking male but my boyfriend thinks female. Kirby has always been so finicky when trying to flip around.

I know that territorial stuff and hormones can interfere with litter training, but would this affect only the bedroom? He is litter trained otherwise and doesn't show any other signs of needing neutered, like aggression or nipping, etc.

I know rabbits should be neutered anyway, but there's absolutely no way its possible for at least months, maybe more. I've been unemployed for awhile now and have a son to take care of and there's NO money left over at all! We are living at the mercy of some family right now as it is.
 
unfortunately restricting him to one room has changed his normal habbits so he's probably a bit upset and is remarking his/her space. Even small upsets like chaning you laundry detergent can cause this. It might settle down but neutering will certainly reduce this problem and make him easier to litter train. Some charities like the RSPC offer free neutering for those on benefits. You could look at the PDSA too.
 
unfortunately restricting him to one room has changed his normal habbits so he's probably a bit upset and is remarking his/her space. Even small upsets like chaning you laundry detergent can cause this. It might settle down but neutering will certainly reduce this problem and make him easier to litter train. Some charities like the RSPC offer free neutering for those on benefits. You could look at the PDSA too.


He is not restricted to the room. He still gets out at the rest of the house, but I was just wanting to begin having him in the bedroom more and less cage time in general. When I said restricted I just mean we've had to keep in the cage more often and he cannot always run freely through the house all the time (like I planned for him to do in the bedroom) When he is in the bedroom the door is closed, which he's not used to, but I am not sure if that would be enough to make him so strange with the litter stuff.

Changing the detergent hasn't done anything, because he still uses his litter box in other rooms (just not the bedroom)

I am not on benefits and the local SPCAs here do not have anything to do with rabbits, even to adopt, they only deal with cats and dogs. I am not sure what the PDSA is, Ive never heard of that around here.

I do want to get him neutered for health reasons, and perhaps it would help, I just had a sneaking suspicion it wouldn't with this case. I just can't figure it out, it makes no sense why he won't use the litter box in the one room. He uses it in the spare room, he uses it if its in the living room, he uses it if it's in the den...grrrrrr, tear hair out time lol
 
I've had a similar experience. Before Nermal was neutered i couldn't let him on any soft surface - beds and couches were no-go areas - and i think that particularly with the bed it was him trying to mark his territory and cover my smell with his. My bed would obviously be the one place in the house that has my "scent" on it, so he was quite firm with his demand that his pee be on my duvet!
Since neutering it's stopped completely, and i know you can't do it just at the moment but i honestly think this will make the biggest difference. I know it's kind of learned behaviour now, but after neutering the desire to scent will disappear (after a week-two weeks anyway), so he just won't be bothered peeing on the bed any more.
Until then unfortunately you'll just have to be vigilant and keep a tray nearby!
 
I too have this problem with my bunny weeing on the bed. She was neutered about 2 months ago (or is it spayed for a girl?) - how long does it take to kick in and not pee on the bed?

I think her weeing and pooing on the bed has actually got a bit worse since her being spayed. The other night I was sleeping on my back, with my hand behind my head and she was snuggled on my arm pit and she bloody weed on me - on my arm pit! - I was NOT impressed waking up to that!

Her name is Ultra Pee Pee - I suppose it my own fault for calling her that, self fulfilling prophecy!
 
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I too have this problem with my bunny weeing on the bed. She was neutered about 2 months ago (or is it spayed for a girl?) - how long does it take to kick in and not pee on the bed?

Her name is Ultra Pee Pee - I suppose it my own fault for calling her that, self fulfilling prophecy!

Female hormones post-spay can take up to 9 months to drop off completely. But it may not be hormone related any more, it is more likely to be an entrenched behaviour that your rabbit has learned to achieve a particular response and the more the behaviour is repeated and the response given, the more it is reinforced.
My first question would be does your girl have her own territory that you don't invade when she is in it? Or does she share your bedroom all the time without a pen/cage? It's likely it is territorial marking (they will still do this regardless of a spay if they feel it is needed) or purely as a means of communication with you about something. How do you respond when you see her doing it?

We used to call our rescue girl Pissy Poppy! After two years of studying closely her behaviour, our responses and adjusting the environment that she was in so she didn't feel the need to use her destructive or frustrated behaviours, particularly the peeing to communicate things she was unhappy about, we finally achieved a result and she is as good as gold now.

The problem is that rabbits are very intelligent but we often miss their subtle signals especially in a house-rabbit environment where they are sharing their territory with us, they can therefore get very frustrated and are quick to learn behaviours to communiate this with us....which we automatically respond to as we would with a small child, but with animals this can often reinforce the behaviour.
I would look at your set up - does she have her own territory which you don't invade when she is in it e.g. clean it out? can she access it as and when she wants? Does she have a routine? Does her routine mimick the natural routine of a crepuscular animal? Do you respond to her negative behaviours? Does she have her litter tray in a place she feels safe to use it? Being on the latrine is naturally a vulnerable time for a rabbit - why wild buns use a communal latrine from a vantage point. Sometimes we misread our rabbits behaviours, think they are being aggressive when in fact they are showing fear. Or think they are being stroppy/difficult or naughty when in fact they are displaying frustration and trying to tell us something. Not always of course...I know that when Poppy is on her tiptoes trying to reach my peas that she is not trying to tell me anything...she's being naughty, illustrated by fact when I say 'Poppy' she jumps away and does a little binky;-) Buns are clever things:D
 
I do want to get him neutered for health reasons, and perhaps it would help, I just had a sneaking suspicion it wouldn't with this case. I just can't figure it out, it makes no sense why he won't use the litter box in the one room. He uses it in the spare room, he uses it if its in the living room, he uses it if it's in the den...grrrrrr, tear hair out time lol

Neutering is the only way to acheive reliable litter training - there is too much hormonal control in territory marking. Once neutered you can work on the training. It sounds to me like he knows exactly how to use a litter tray. The marking on your bed is purely for your benefit you lucky thing:lol: He's trying to tell you something.....I expect that any response you give here will simply reinforce the behaviour. He is probably struggling sharing what he considers his territory with you. If he is using the trays eslewhere can you not house him in these areas instead? Buns need lots of exercise as you know but I would supervise it to start with and reward good litter habits with greater freedom gradually. I'm afraid until neutered this is unlikely to be resolved. Meanwhile you could try blocking off the bed by putting something on it around edge (large cushions?) to stop him jumping on to it.
 
I agree with the above. I would think the behaviour started due to change in routine/setup/free time.. and the fact the bun is entire meaning they naturally want to mark your territory with their scent. This being the place that has the strongest whiff of your scent - your bed!

Your bun needs a space which is theirs - which you only clean / go into when they are not around. This should be their bolt hole where they feel safe to run to if scared. This area like I say should be a no go zone for humans unless the bun is off around the house playing... otherwise they view it as an invasion of their territory. Some buns are not this sensitive but others are.

The behaviour will now be a habbit until it is broken by changing the access the rabbit has to the crime scene. :lol:
 
Female hormones post-spay can take up to 9 months to drop off completely. But it may not be hormone related any more, it is more likely to be an entrenched behaviour that your rabbit has learned to achieve a particular response and the more the behaviour is repeated and the response given, the more it is reinforced.

My first question would be does your girl have her own territory that you don't invade when she is in it? Or does she share your bedroom all the time without a pen/cage? It's likely it is territorial marking (they will still do this regardless of a spay if they feel it is needed) or purely as a means of communication with you about something. How do you respond when you see her doing it?

We used to call our rescue girl Pissy Poppy! After two years of studying closely her behaviour, our responses and adjusting the environment that she was in so she didn't feel the need to use her destructive or frustrated behaviours, particularly the peeing to communicate things she was unhappy about, we finally achieved a result and she is as good as gold now.

The problem is that rabbits are very intelligent but we often miss their subtle signals especially in a house-rabbit environment where they are sharing their territory with us, they can therefore get very frustrated and are quick to learn behaviours to communiate this with us....which we automatically respond to as we would with a small child, but with animals this can often reinforce the behaviour.


Well when the bun is put in the bedroom he is alone under the bed as his space, and when through the house I generally just don't bother him, letting him run around freely. We do keep some of the bedroom doors closed that we don't want him in but that's it. The different spots around the house he lounges at, we won't disturb him.

With the bedroom, he didn't go in it for several months because he used to go in the bed. After trying again and he going on the bed again, I posted here, and he hasn't been in there since. So it's not that he's in there often and used to it. As for my response...I just get annoyed but not sure how to react. I know with dogs you can show them no but I've always been under the impressions rabbits dont get that. As soon as I notice he did it I do put him back in his cage, which is not in the bedroom.

I would look at your set up - does she have her own territory which you don't invade when she is in it e.g. clean it out?

When I clean the cage Kirby isn't in it, I read a few times not to clean it when they are in there. He comes and is nosy when I do it of course but otherwise it's his own cage.

can she access it as and when she wants?

Yes. When he's in the room with us the cage is in there too but he never bothers going in his cage once he's let out. The same with when he is in the rest of the house.

Does she have a routine? Does her routine mimick the natural routine of a crepuscular animal?

The only routine I can think of is when he is let out of his cage into the rest of the house he does come almost right away to use the litter box. When in the bedroom he doesnt touch the litter box so no routine really there that I can think of.

Do you respond to her negative behaviours? Does she have her litter tray in a place she feels safe to use it?

When Kirby chews and gets into things I shoo him away and he gets the hint he's not supposed to bother something. If he keeps going back I keep getting up until he stops and clap my hands loudly. The litter box isnt an issue. He uses it fine outside the room and is safe using it. In the room it's there but he just doesnt touch it, no idea why, it's in the middle of the room and I'm not sure why he ignores it then. :/

Or think they are being stroppy/difficult or naughty when in fact they are displaying frustration and trying to tell us something.


Yeah I wish I could figure it out :(
 
Neutering is the only way to acheive reliable litter training - there is too much hormonal control in territory marking. Once neutered you can work on the training. It sounds to me like he knows exactly how to use a litter tray. The marking on your bed is purely for your benefit you lucky thing:lol: He's trying to tell you something.....I expect that any response you give here will simply reinforce the behaviour. He is probably struggling sharing what he considers his territory with you. If he is using the trays eslewhere can you not house him in these areas instead? Buns need lots of exercise as you know but I would supervise it to start with and reward good litter habits with greater freedom gradually. I'm afraid until neutered this is unlikely to be resolved. Meanwhile you could try blocking off the bed by putting something on it around edge (large cushions?) to stop him jumping on to it.


Sigh yeah I was kind of fearing this.
As for blocking the bed off, not sure how, but that's something to think about. Rabbits are great jumpers unfortunately lol.

Your bun needs a space which is theirs - which you only clean / go into when they are not around. This should be their bolt hole where they feel safe to run to if scared. This area like I say should be a no go zone for humans unless the bun is off around the house playing... otherwise they view it as an invasion of their territory. Some buns are not this sensitive but others are.

Well really he is giving free reign when out, Kirby has his favorite spots and isn't disturbed there. In the room he loves under the bed and various areas and I leave him alone there.
 
Well when the bun is put in the bedroom he is alone under the bed as his space, and when through the house I generally just don't bother him, letting him run around freely. We do keep some of the bedroom doors closed that we don't want him in but that's it. The different spots around the house he lounges at, we won't disturb him.

With the bedroom, he didn't go in it for several months because he used to go in the bed. After trying again and he going on the bed again, I posted here, and he hasn't been in there since. So it's not that he's in there often and used to it. As for my response...I just get annoyed but not sure how to react. I know with dogs you can show them no but I've always been under the impressions rabbits dont get that. As soon as I notice he did it I do put him back in his cage, which is not in the bedroom.

I would look at your set up - does she have her own territory which you don't invade when she is in it e.g. clean it out?

When I clean the cage Kirby isn't in it, I read a few times not to clean it when they are in there. He comes and is nosy when I do it of course but otherwise it's his own cage.

can she access it as and when she wants?

Yes. When he's in the room with us the cage is in there too but he never bothers going in his cage once he's let out. The same with when he is in the rest of the house.

Does she have a routine? Does her routine mimick the natural routine of a crepuscular animal?

The only routine I can think of is when he is let out of his cage into the rest of the house he does come almost right away to use the litter box. When in the bedroom he doesnt touch the litter box so no routine really there that I can think of.

Do you respond to her negative behaviours? Does she have her litter tray in a place she feels safe to use it?

When Kirby chews and gets into things I shoo him away and he gets the hint he's not supposed to bother something. If he keeps going back I keep getting up until he stops and clap my hands loudly. The litter box isnt an issue. He uses it fine outside the room and is safe using it. In the room it's there but he just doesnt touch it, no idea why, it's in the middle of the room and I'm not sure why he ignores it then. :/

Or think they are being stroppy/difficult or naughty when in fact they are displaying frustration and trying to tell us something.


Yeah I wish I could figure it out :(

Yeah unfortunately my questions above only really apply directly to BunnBunns post about her spayed doe.
In your case, it sounds like you are doing everything right environment wise but it is likely to simply be the lack of castration that is causing this inappropriate toileting behaviour in your unneutered buck. The problem is with unneutered buns that the hormones confuse the issue so there's no point banging your head against the wall trying to figure out behavioural stuff until you have him done i'm afraid, it just won't be a clear enough picture. I'm afraid your only solution is castration, and then when hormones are largely ruled out, you can tackle behavioural issues. :)
 
We currently have the same issue with our bun, however ours has been spayed.

She use to have a play pen around her cage up untill she had decided to jump it ( was only 16" so really our falt) in which time we made the fence taller (32") And she jumped that too, so we rabbit proofed our bedroom and now let her have free roam over the room.
She has always been fine in her play pen never pooing or peeing in it, our floors are also doing fine. however she decides to pee and poo on our bed, if we are on the bed and she is on the opposite side of the room from her cage she will still run to her cage to use her litter box. Also she has to jump pretty high up to get to the bed but she feels fine jumping down from it (Some mornings it's quite the show of jumping up and down waking us up) ((On a side note our alarm goes off 1h prior to the time we actually have to wake up and we let Honeybunny out for exersize)) We think this is a issue with marking her territory but we are'nt 100% sure, she is our first bunny and we've only had her afew months.

We just dont know what to do either o_O

On a side note if we bring her to the couch to watch tv with us she poo's on it aswell -_- figure it's the same issue but might be differant. We actually have to pick her up and bring her to the couch so that might be a issue with picking her up, she dos'nt overly like that.

Questions from prior:

I would look at your set up - does she have her own territory which you don't invade when she is in it e.g. clean it out?

Yes, we never invade her cage, we do invade her playpen area (which is now the room) however, but never her actual cage.


can she access it as and when she wants?

Yes, we leave the gate open for her she comes and goes as she pleases



Does she have a routine? Does her routine mimick the natural routine of a crepuscular animal?

Yes.


Do you respond to her negative behaviours?
Yes, normally with a tap of the finger against her, or a snap of the fingers, loud clap.

Does she have her litter tray in a place she feels safe to use it?

Yes, in her cage in the corner, where it's always been since she's been with us and never had a problem with her.
 
We currently have the same issue with our bun, however ours has been spayed.

She use to have a play pen around her cage up untill she had decided to jump it ( was only 16" so really our falt) in which time we made the fence taller (32") And she jumped that too, so we rabbit proofed our bedroom and now let her have free roam over the room.
She has always been fine in her play pen never pooing or peeing in it, our floors are also doing fine. however she decides to pee and poo on our bed, if we are on the bed and she is on the opposite side of the room from her cage she will still run to her cage to use her litter box. Also she has to jump pretty high up to get to the bed but she feels fine jumping down from it (Some mornings it's quite the show of jumping up and down waking us up) ((On a side note our alarm goes off 1h prior to the time we actually have to wake up and we let Honeybunny out for exersize)) We think this is a issue with marking her territory but we are'nt 100% sure, she is our first bunny and we've only had her afew months.

We just dont know what to do either o_O

On a side note if we bring her to the couch to watch tv with us she poo's on it aswell -_- figure it's the same issue but might be differant. We actually have to pick her up and bring her to the couch so that might be a issue with picking her up, she dos'nt overly like that.

Questions from prior:

I would look at your set up - does she have her own territory which you don't invade when she is in it e.g. clean it out?

Yes, we never invade her cage, we do invade her playpen area (which is now the room) however, but never her actual cage.


can she access it as and when she wants?

Yes, we leave the gate open for her she comes and goes as she pleases



Does she have a routine? Does her routine mimick the natural routine of a crepuscular animal?

Yes.


Do you respond to her negative behaviours?
Yes, normally with a tap of the finger against her, or a snap of the fingers, loud clap.

Does she have her litter tray in a place she feels safe to use it?

Yes, in her cage in the corner, where it's always been since she's been with us and never had a problem with her.


If she's been spayed and there are no underlying health issues then you can assume it's behavioural, it certainly sounds like it. I would say that if it happens as soon as you let her out of her cage in the morning she hops up on to the bed and pees - then she's marking the bed as hers, and letting you know about it, and it's probably related to not being impressed about being penned in to an environment that she considers her territory also. If you give any response - negative or positive in this circumstance you will be reinforcing the behaviour - she's trying to show you her displeasure and claim to territory by marking the bed - she can't tell you with a voice - so you respond - and she thinks 'great' they noticed!!
If however, she has fully free reign and is never penned up then the problem is probably you sharing your bedroom with her, you are effectively living insider her territory and she's marking the bed again to let you know this is her territory too. The problem occurs when the behaviour is repeated - it becomes an entrenched behaviour.
You have to change the triggers and break the pattern - whether this be block off the bed to her, stop reacting, and possible move her out of your bedroom to a room you don't spend so much time in, and maybe even some time penned up as part of her routine (with enough space to play) so that she learns where the territorial boundaries are. I would personally tackle all of these contributing factors at the same time. Good luck:)
 
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