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Dodgy bum

Minimallow

Minimallow

Wise Old Thumper
Does anyone have any recommendations as to what pellets to give to a bun with a runny bum. Its not lack of hay etc or too much pellets or the usual reasons. The bun had been previously malnourished so im assuming it could have something to do with the digestive system being damaged due to this.
If anyone has any advice it would be gratefully received. :wave:
 
How runny a bum? excess caecotrophs? malformed caecotrophs? or the runs as in diarrhoea? Diarrhoea would warrant a trip to the vet as dehydration would be a concern.
Could be a symptom of caecal dysbiosis if it has been going on for sometime? Dietary changes to improve this take time to reestablish the balance of bacteria in caecum so if you've increased hay and decreased pellets recently then you may have to wait several weeks for improvement.
But if sudden it could be infectious or just a sudden upset from something eaten in the last 24 -48 hrs, veg that had gone yellow? too much grass too suddenly?
If it's causing concern then I would have a vet check bunny over. In the meantime i'd remove all pellets and feed bunny just hay for a couple of days, dependent on how bad the dodgy bum is until it clears up (and leave off veg too as well)? If bunny is malnourished then obviously this won't be sufficient long-term but it's important to get her caecum back into balance first.
 
I would go with trying SS mature as a first port of call and see how that works. I have seen plenty of buns with runny bums that have been swapped to SS mature and that has solved the problem. I also agree with prettylupin that removing pellets completely until it has cleared up is a good idea and a trip to the vet is good too if he seems a little lethargic/dehydrated.
 
Rhian33 said:
I would go with trying SS mature as a first port of call and see how that works. I have seen plenty of buns with runny bums that have been swapped to SS mature and that has solved the problem. I also agree with prettylupin that removing pellets completely until it has cleared up is a good idea and a trip to the vet is good too if he seems a little lethargic/dehydrated.
Click to expand...

I agree about SS Mature Honey was on A & P and had excess poos and now she's been perfect since I changed her over to Science Mature. :)
 
prettylupin said:
How runny a bum? excess caecotrophs? malformed caecotrophs? or the runs as in diarrhoea? Diarrhoea would warrant a trip to the vet as dehydration would be a concern.
Could be a symptom of caecal dysbiosis if it has been going on for sometime? Dietary changes to improve this take time to reestablish the balance of bacteria in caecum so if you've increased hay and decreased pellets recently then you may have to wait several weeks for improvement.
But if sudden it could be infectious or just a sudden upset from something eaten in the last 24 -48 hrs, veg that had gone yellow? too much grass too suddenly?
If it's causing concern then I would have a vet check bunny over. In the meantime i'd remove all pellets and feed bunny just hay for a couple of days, dependent on how bad the dodgy bum is until it clears up (and leave off veg too as well)? If bunny is malnourished then obviously this won't be sufficient long-term but it's important to get her caecum back into balance first.
Click to expand...

Hi thanks for your response. He's always had really soft poops but seems to be more. its more just unformed poo - sorry for description but like mini cow pats. Im taking him to the vets on Monday anyway to get him checked over as hes not putting weight on as well as i think he should. The problem is he doesnt eat huge amounts of hay and id be reluctant to take him off pellets and veg etc with him still being fairly thin :? He hasnt had anything different eating wise - no more grass than usual.
What is caecal dysbiosis? I havent heard of that before.
 
Rhian33 said:
I would go with trying SS mature as a first port of call and see how that works. I have seen plenty of buns with runny bums that have been swapped to SS mature and that has solved the problem. I also agree with prettylupin that removing pellets completely until it has cleared up is a good idea and a trip to the vet is good too if he seems a little lethargic/dehydrated.
Click to expand...

Hi he drinks a lot and isnt really lethargic or dehydrated. I think i'll give the ss mature a go then. Hes in with 3 other buns so is that ok for them too?
Its not really a case of it clearing up as hes always been like that.
Thanks for the advice :wave:
 
Dysbiosis just means an inbalance of bacteria

Cowpat poos can be indicative of an inflammatory bowel disease.
Sometimes dietary correction is not enough and the Rabbit may require treatment with either Salazopyrin or Steroids.
Personally I'd opt for the Salazopyrin due to the potential for adverse side-effects from the use of steroids.

Obviously IBD is only one of many possibilities.

I agree re the SS Mature
 
Ok thanks i'll ask the vet about that on Monday.
Is there a reason this may be the case or could it just be due to his past problems of neglect etc
 
Hi, they sound like malformed caecotrophs to me, does he do normal droppings as well? Malformed caecotrophs do tend to look like mini cowpats I must admit! We should call them bunny pats:D

It tends to indicate quite bad caecal dysbiosis, which although not immediately dangerous, can lead to health problems as firstly bunny should be consuming these caectrophs - which may explain the weight loss (as they get a lot of nutrition from them) and if they smell wrong and are full of too much of one sort of bacteria bunny will discard them, which is why you are finding them instead of them being eaten. If they are coming out malformed then the caecum really isn't doing it's job properly. The other problem is that long-term caecal dysbiosis can predispose your bun to stasis as when the bacteria are out of control this can trigger an episode of ileus and stasis as there is a lot of interdependency throughout a rabbit's gut.
Caecal dysbiosis basically means 'the bacteria in the caecum are out of balance'. I'm not very good at explaining it but the caecum is a very important part of a rabbit's digestion as a hind-gut digestor and it contains beneficial and not so beneficial bacteria that act on the smaller food particles in a rabbit's diet. When things go wrong the bad bacteria outweigh the good and you get dysbiosis. It's all dependent on the amount of starch (sugar) bunny is ingesting and gut motility affects how well the caecum works which is why a high fibre diet (lots of hay) is so important, not only for motility of the intestines, but for balance of the caecum as well.
This is a great article that explains it better than me!
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=670&S=5
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

A vet check up is definitely a good idea, sometimes discarded caecotrophs can be a sign of dental issues.
 
prettylupin said:
Hi, they sound like malformed caecotrophs to me, does he do normal droppings as well? Malformed caecotrophs do tend to look like mini cowpats I must admit! We should call them bunny pats:D

It tends to indicate quite bad caecal dysbiosis, which although not immediately dangerous, can lead to health problems as firstly bunny should be consuming these caectrophs - which may explain the weight loss (as they get a lot of nutrition from them) and if they smell wrong and are full of too much of one sort of bacteria bunny will discard them, which is why you are finding them instead of them being eaten. If they are coming out malformed then the caecum really isn't doing it's job properly. The other problem is that long-term caecal dysbiosis can predispose your bun to stasis as when the bacteria are out of control this can trigger an episode of ileus and stasis as there is a lot of interdependency throughout a rabbit's gut.
Caecal dysbiosis basically means 'the bacteria in the caecum are out of balance'. I'm not very good at explaining it but the caecum is a very important part of a rabbit's digestion as a hind-gut digestor and it contains beneficial and not so beneficial bacteria that act on the smaller food particles in a rabbit's diet. When things go wrong the bad bacteria outweigh the good and you get dysbiosis. It's all dependent on the amount of starch (sugar) bunny is ingesting and gut motility affects how well the caecum works which is why a high fibre diet (lots of hay) is so important, not only for motility of the intestines, but for balance of the caecum as well.
This is a great article that explains it better than me!
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=670&S=5
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

A vet check up is definitely a good idea, sometimes discarded caecotrophs can be a sign of dental issues.
Click to expand...

Hi thanks that does make sense. His teeth arent a problem as they were checked out by the rescue's vet before we got him - surprisingly his teeth are really good!
 
Just from a personal experience, one of our rescue buns came with this conditon and after great perserverence with many different pellets we decided that she simply could not tolerate any due to their high starch and protein concentrations and we moved her over to a fully hay and veg diet which was convenient as her bonded partner was on the same for other health issues. Of course for a bun not too keen on hay this would not be appropriate as may trigger further weight loss so you might need to find a happy balance.
On this purely hay and veg diet it took 3 months for her excess caecotrophs to clear up, firstly the malformed ones became well formed but just extra, and eventually they stopped being discarded but it took a long time. To start with we excluded everything but a good quality hay and then reintroduced the veg slowly, she is still sensitive to certain veg but we have found her tolerance leves.
If you can increase more hay into his diet gradually this would be great, I would hope you would achieve some weight gain as the symptoms improve and he is reingesting his caecotrophs as he should be. Maybe try some new hays or provide some variety to encourage him to eat it. We found the tougher timothy hay more beneficial than the meadow for these symptoms but actually provide both. Hopefully just with a different pellet and more hay in the diet your bunny's symptoms will clear up:)
 
He gets lots of hay - he does eat it as ive seen him but probably not enough.
We get farm hay which any bun i have known gobbles up like mad. All our other buns stuff it down them :lol: He does get grass which he absolutely loves but again i have to be careful with that. I do think he needs something from the vet to try and help then we can see what to do from there. Thats the problem with having 4 buns in together - to try and limit what he takes etc. All the other buns in with him have perfect poo's so its a difficult situation :?
 
Minimallow said:
Hi he drinks a lot and isnt really lethargic or dehydrated. I think i'll give the ss mature a go then. Hes in with 3 other buns so is that ok for them too?
Its not really a case of it clearing up as hes always been like that.
Thanks for the advice :wave:
Click to expand...

Yes, it's fine for the others too. My male has been on mature since he was 10 months and is fine. You may want to try Burns organic mountain hay from simplyk9, my buns always ate an ok amount of hay but since giving them this their intake has about doubled. The naturals hay cookies are good too and they go down well with my lot.

Good luck with sorting out his tum, I know how frustrting it can be as 2 of mine have had similar issues hence the ss mature.
 
Thanks for that will order some of that hay to try. He wont touch the hay cookies unfortunately :roll:
 
Yep definitely agree with the Burns organic mountain hay - mine love it too! But even more the Burns Green Oat hay - they really love this stuff. I'd also recommend the timothy rich hay from West Wale Willows, it's great stuff with a good variety of grasses and content of timothy.
And yeah, I definitely think he needs to see your vet for a thorough check over and discuss it, completely:)
 
I am a fan of Oxbow Bunny Basics T (hay based pellets). Also if there are incidents when there as squishy poops, I give the bun some Fibreplex to try to sort things out for a couple of days - it normally works.

Good luck, I know how frustrating this can be.
 
bunny babe said:
I am a fan of Oxbow Bunny Basics T (hay based pellets). Also if there are incidents when there as squishy poops, I give the bun some Fibreplex to try to sort things out for a couple of days - it normally works.

Good luck, I know how frustrating this can be.
Click to expand...

Hiya - i was thinking of trying the oxbow if the SS mature doesnt work. Fibreplex i tried but it didnt help at all unfortunately :(

Just peered out of the window and here he is happily chomping away on some yummy hay :roll::lol:
 
Last edited:
Oxbow bunny basics T for mine!!

He has been prone to a squidgy bum most of his life with regular clean ups.

Had a clean up at the vets a few months ago and changed him to oxbow at the same time and he's been squeaky clean since!!
 
How about a firm diagnosis from the vets & coming back to us then? All the best for tomorrow, & please keep us posted.
 
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