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Molly's Sore Hocks

L

LionheadLuver

Warren Veteran
They are not improving. They are not too red right now, and we are putting salt water on them at the minute. At the moment, they are on grass, which is not growing due to no rain, and the ground is like concrete cos of lack of rain, so her hocks are getting cut up and splitting. She still has her injury wound, which is healing well.

A bit of infection has started in one of the hocks (not the one with the injury). There is no broken skin at all in the infected hock. There is a tiny circle (about 2mm in diameter) of white under the skin, which I know is infection. But she's had a course of Baytril before, which got rid of the infection, but it has now returned about a month later. We are going to try pencilin next, and then flammazine cream. If this can't keep infection away, we may have to think about PTS, as it's no sort of life to keep having medication every few months. :cry: She hasn't had any fur growing on the hock since she started having it a year ago. Can it ever return?
 
Im not sure what to suggest, maybe bandages? Dont think about pts.. just think about my Jazz and other buns on here, My Jazz is going through so much right now but I wouldnt consider pts right now because he doesnt seem in pain. He will tell me when he wants to go :(
 
Jazzy B Bunny said:
Im not sure what to suggest, maybe bandages? Dont think about pts.. just think about my Jazz and other buns on here, My Jazz is going through so much right now but I wouldnt consider pts right now because he doesnt seem in pain. He will tell me when he wants to go :(
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply. Obviously, pts will be the FINAL option, but if she's really depressed, stressed or in pain almost constantly, we may have to think about it, as we have to think about her quality of life. We will try EVERYTHING else we can before thinking about it.

We don't mind giving Baytril to her every month if needed, but it's obviously not good for her to have antibiotics regularly, and may make it ineffective later in her life. So pencilin may be the answer (hopefully) as it's stronger, and may last longer.
 
Sorry to hear they have returned.

We water our grass late every night to keep it soft for Imogens sore hocks :)

Moses also suffers from sore hocks and we bandage his feet everyday with 2 different bandages nd soft baby socks. After several months they are now starting to regrow their fur and one foot doesn't need any treatment at all, although I still check it daily.

What has Guy said about the infection returning?

We are not that far from you so if there is anything we can do to help just shout :wave:
 
*Spider* said:
How about you water the lawn to soften it up a little?
Click to expand...

We actually did that tonight. :lol: We are still learning about how to manage it successfully. And we are forecast rain soon, so hopefully this won't last too long.

Hugo's There said:
Sorry to hear they have returned.

We water our grass late every night to keep it soft for Imogens sore hocks :)

Moses also suffers from sore hocks and we bandage his feet everyday with 2 different bandages nd soft baby socks. After several months they are now starting to regrow their fur and one foot doesn't need any treatment at all, although I still check it daily.

What has Guy said about the infection returning?

We are not that far from you so if there is anything we can do to help just shout :wave:
Click to expand...

Looks like we should water the grass too during dry times. :) Guy said that if they return, to take back to him and try pencilin, so will do. Hasn't said anything about bandaging yet. She reacts to sudocrem and vaseline, and only salt water keeps it pink, although found out tonight not to put it on open cuts. Molly had a little cut (where she must have cut it on dry ground :roll:), and put saltwater on it, and it exploded with blood. Got a blooming shock, and cleaned it up. :shock:

Thank you for the invitation of help. :)
 
LionheadLuver said:
We actually did that tonight. :lol: We are still learning about how to manage it successfully. And we are forecast rain soon, so hopefully this won't last too long.



Looks like we should water the grass too during dry times. :) Guy said that if they return, to take back to him and try pencilin, so will do. Hasn't said anything about bandaging yet. She reacts to sudocrem and vaseline, and only salt water keeps it pink, although found out tonight not to put it on open cuts. Molly had a little cut (where she must have cut it on dry ground :roll:), and put saltwater on it, and it exploded with blood. Got a blooming shock, and cleaned it up. :shock:

Thank you for the invitation of help. :)
Click to expand...

No problems :wave:

Hope your have more success with the penicilin.

I can imagine salt on a cut would REALLY sting, ouch :shock:

I know Jane has good results with aloe vera gel. I've not used it myself as have found Sudocrem to work well on my buns :)
 
Hugo's There said:
No problems :wave:

Hope your have more success with the penicilin.

I can imagine salt on a cut would REALLY sting, ouch :shock:

I know Jane has good results with aloe vera gel. I've not used it myself as have found Sudocrem to work well on my buns :)
Click to expand...

Thanks. May try aloe vera gel and see what happens. Thanks.:)
 
I don't know if it is of any help but I wrote an answer to a similar post just further down the health forum about sore hocks based on our experience with a bunny we fostered who had terrible sore hocks. His original owner's vet suggest pts also, but when we took him on we took him to our own vet who I feel did a great treatment regime.
I can honestly say that aside from the obvious antibiotics to prevent osteomyelitis whether that be Baytril or depocillin (we used the former but I have heard of people having success with the penicillin) the CRUCIAL thing we found helpful was a combination of a long-term course of Metacam oral - not only does it help with the pain incredibly well it is also an anti-inflammatory which can really help the sores, combined with the use of vet beds. I can't rave enough about how good vet beds are for this condition. They spread the weight evenly under the feet and relieve the pain and pressure when bunny is resting on them. Our foster bun had them so bad he couldn't sit still at all, or barely stand and hop. We made his entire pen vet beds with towels underneath several layers thick for extra cushioning. Put most importantly had the vet bed on top for him to sink into. It gave him almost immediate relief we found. He also found using a litter tray at this time too painful as any sort of litter e.g. megazorb/carefresh was just too unforgiving under his feet, so he kept weeing on the vet beds in the corner. We eventually figured out to cut a vet bed up into strips big enough to fill half a litter tray and lay it on top of a layer of megazorb - worked perfectly! He was able to use the litter tray then which of course lessened the risk of urine scald on top of his sore hocks. The strips of vet bed we just put in the washing machine.

Of course you must do whatever you feel is best, but we honestly found it was better not to put anything on the wound at all but let the air get to it and prevent any further squashing of surrounding fur. Creams are very difficult to apply without flattening the fur around the edge of the sore and this fur is in fact acting as a cushion, albeit a small one when their feet are this bad. I'd seriously consider just trying it for say two days and see if you notice any improvement? can't help to try? not putting anything on the sores at all, don't bathe them, cream them, bandage them or anything just leave them and see what happens. It worked for our bun! I really hope he gets better soon, I know how awful this condition is and how it breaks the heart to see a bun in such discomfort. I really do suggest a course of Metacam - normal dose for a couple of days and then reduced to a maintenance dose when things improve, and finally weaned off it again slowly when better - obviously with vet approval - it was our vet's suggestion and it really helped. Exercise on the lawn was also beneficial as a healthy heart and exercise increases venous return and gets the blood to these extremeties where it is needed to help it all heal up. I think the idea of wetting the lawn at night is a great one:)
 
prettylupin said:
I don't know if it is of any help but I wrote an answer to a similar post just further down the health forum about sore hocks based on our experience with a bunny we fostered who had terrible sore hocks. His original owner's vet suggest pts also, but when we took him on we took him to our own vet who I feel did a great treatment regime.
I can honestly say that aside from the obvious antibiotics to prevent osteomyelitis whether that be Baytril or depocillin (we used the former but I have heard of people having success with the penicillin) the CRUCIAL thing we found helpful was a combination of a long-term course of Metacam oral - not only does it help with the pain incredibly well it is also an anti-inflammatory which can really help the sores, combined with the use of vet beds. I can't rave enough about how good vet beds are for this condition. They spread the weight evenly under the feet and relieve the pain and pressure when bunny is resting on them. Our foster bun had them so bad he couldn't sit still at all, or barely stand and hop. We made his entire pen vet beds with towels underneath several layers thick for extra cushioning. Put most importantly had the vet bed on top for him to sink into. It gave him almost immediate relief we found. He also found using a litter tray at this time too painful as any sort of litter e.g. megazorb/carefresh was just too unforgiving under his feet, so he kept weeing on the vet beds in the corner. We eventually figured out to cut a vet bed up into strips big enough to fill half a litter tray and lay it on top of a layer of megazorb - worked perfectly! He was able to use the litter tray then which of course lessened the risk of urine scald on top of his sore hocks. The strips of vet bed we just put in the washing machine.

Of course you must do whatever you feel is best, but we honestly found it was better not to put anything on the wound at all but let the air get to it and prevent any further squashing of surrounding fur. Creams are very difficult to apply without flattening the fur around the edge of the sore and this fur is in fact acting as a cushion, albeit a small one when their feet are this bad. I'd seriously consider just trying it for say two days and see if you notice any improvement? can't help to try? not putting anything on the sores at all, don't bathe them, cream them, bandage them or anything just leave them and see what happens. It worked for our bun! I really hope he gets better soon, I know how awful this condition is and how it breaks the heart to see a bun in such discomfort. I really do suggest a course of Metacam - normal dose for a couple of days and then reduced to a maintenance dose when things improve, and finally weaned off it again slowly when better - obviously with vet approval - it was our vet's suggestion and it really helped. Exercise on the lawn was also beneficial as a healthy heart and exercise increases venous return and gets the blood to these extremeties where it is needed to help it all heal up. I think the idea of wetting the lawn at night is a great one:)
Click to expand...

Thank you for this reply. I'll see if I can get some vetbed for their hutch. At the moment, they are on soft litter (megazorb) with thick hay on top. Would the vetbed make much difference to hay?
 
Well i obviously can't give you a cast-iron guarantee but I'm certain it will make a HUGE difference. Our sore-hock foster bun was kept by his orig owners on sawdust and like I said when he came to us we used megazorb in his litter tray and he just couldn't even stand in it, let alone sit in it. I know it sounds wierd as you'd think that megazorb would be great for cushioning and hay too but they're not for this condition. The megazorb just doesn't give enough and spread the load and pressure on the foot and hay is just too abrasive. The ONLY bedding I would recommend you use to get on top of this problem is veterinary bedding. If your bun is litter trained then I would literally take out all the megazorb and hay and just line the hutch with some old towels (use as many as you can find/spare) and then cover the entire surface with vet beds except maybe where his bowl or hayrack is, but make sure he can sit on the vet bed to use them. I know it sounds expensive and it is, but it does really make a huge difference, well it did for us, and when he went to Bobtails to be rehomed they carried on with the same thing, I actually think it was them that suggested it to me when we were looking after him, or maybe it was the RWAF article on sore hocks, but our vet also recommended it. We even put a vet bed out in his run on the lawn and he would make a bee-line for it and sit on it all day. We did encourage him to exercise each day as well though as too much cage-rest means sitting on their hocks for longer. Exercise is important for circulation to get the foot tissue repaired and to prevent them sitting around too much which they do when they feel poorly and in pain. I personally think the two things that made the biggest difference were the vet beds and course of metacam.
In our house he had a pen in my OH's office as his presence upset my bonded pair and we just put down loads of towels, fleeces and vet beds. Fleece is ok but vet bed is better without a doubt. I hope that helps a bit:)
 
Meant to say, put in a litter tray with a strip of vet bed on top of the megazorb and wash it daily. If not litter trained then maybe leave the corner he uses megazorb but still put a square of vet bed on top if he finds standing on the megazorb too difficult to pee. The weather is good so you can wash and hang things on the line:D it is a nightmare all the washing but if he uses the same corner it shouldn't be too much. Some garden centres/SCATS stores do vet bed on a roll so you could cut it to size. They are 20 quid each for a large one otherwise - costs a fortune i know!!
 
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I personally disagree with this, the fibres of vet beds are incredibly soft and far less abrasive than any other sort of bedding, but much more importantly they spread the weight of the foot and relieve pressure, which is exactly what sore hocks are. In hospitals a similar product is used to relieve bed sores.
We found them to be extremely effective and their use in this condition was also confirmed by our rabbit specialist vet, Bobtails rescue in Surrey and the RWAF experts. The bun we looked after showed immediate relief in his demeanour when he first sat on one and we achieved 50% fur regrowth on a rex bunny who was severely disabled by his sore hocks on all four feet pads within around 6-8 wks by use of these alone alongside NSAID's and preventative antibiotics.

It sounds to me that this owner has been extremely attentive to her bunny and has tried everthing and done everything they can so far without an awful lot of success if this problem is recurrent and becoming chronic. In my mind making some long term changes, or atleast experimenting with them, to bunny's living environment (albeit rather expensive changes) seems to be the only thing not yet tried. Personally if it's getting to the point where bunny's long-term quality of life is being considered and the option of pts in desperation as a last resort then i'm wondering what does the owner have to lose by trying this method out? It worked for us!

Vet beds are expensive but so are repeated trips to the vet and constant ongoing medication. With sore hocks the medication is just treating the problem, you need to solve the cause and one of the most important solutions in my mind is dealing with the surface that bunny is living on. Clearly deep bedded hay as is already being used is not working long-term, in this case.
Chronic inflammation leads to skin thickening across the whole pad surface and it can take time for this to heal, which is why long-term changes to surfaces bunny is resting on are important.
 
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Sorry my mistake, obviously I don't know what I'm doing here.

Lionheadluver, my offer of help still stands, although I doubt you want it now I haven't a clue what I'm talking about :(
 
Hi Lionheadluver - I've just found this article for you that describes a type of bandaging using real rabbit fur....how cute! (fur that's been shed of course!)
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sorehocks.html perhaps this is something else you could try as an alternative? Personally i'd give the vet beds a go first and no bandaging but this special bandage seems like quite a good idea if things get really bad and your vet feels bandaging would be better in this case. Anyway, whatever you try I hope you get it sorted and bun feels better soon :)
 
There's no mistake and there's no right or wrong answers! I was simply giving lionheadluver my opinion and thought it would be a shame if they didn't atleast try it out, try something new to see if it helped? It has clearly got pretty bad and I thought it would be a shame not to atleast try if the current environment isn't working in the long-term. Apologies if I caused any offence, this was purely from my own experience. I doubt there is any right or wrong way to treat this it's just maybe finding what works for this particular bunny and trying new things?:)
 
That was meant to be an apology, but on re-reading it it doesn't really sound very good. I do apologise if I have caused any offence, it was not meant as a personal attack I just thought it was worth trying to see if it helped as the situation sounded desperate and it worked for us, I can only go from our experience and of course there are lots of other ways to treat things with equal success. My apolgies:)
 
I have never had any success with keeping a Rex on Vetbed. Their lack of guard hairs on the plantar region of their feet makes any surface that gives constant friction unhelpful.
I have found the only substrate that is beneficial is deep soft hay. If I did use Vetbed I would still completely cover it with deep soft hay.
I base my findings on what I have learned in caring for over 25 Rexes.

I guess its all a case of trial and error. I tried just Vetbed and it did not help. Infact it made matters worse. I dont know if this would necessarily be the case with a 'normal' coated Rabbit but as mentioned Rexes have no guard hairs on the plantar region of ther feet and once the fur goes it may never grow back. Constant friction on Vetbed/Carpet/Concrete just leads to the skin breaking down then you risk ulcerative pododermatitis and abscesses.

Keeping the toenails short is also important in the management of chronic sore hocks.
 
It's very interesting to hear your experiences with vet beds Jack's Jane, and especially with Rexes, the bun we cared for was not pure Rex and so it is likely he had more guard hairs than a normal Rex.
All I can say re vet beds and this condition is that it was effective in our case, BUT our experience is clearly extremely limited in comparison to Jack's Jane and therefore, I would go with this advice over my own and keep the deep hay you are currently using and perhaps try a different sort of bandaging for your bunny instead.
Holistically I expect there were other thing we were doing that increased our bun's recovery so from this point of view I'd recommend plenty of exercise according to how debilitated your bunny is and a good diet to keep the immune system in tip top condition to fight any infection.
I totally agree with the nail trimming to keep the angle of the foot as it should be and the risks of osteomyelitis, which is why whatever you do you need to get on top of this condition if you can. It must be extremely frustrating having it go on so long and so I hope you can find something that works well for your bunny.
I still say that if you really have tried everything and give new bandaging a go and lots of deep hay, and still no improvement after another 3 months atleast, that perhaps you might as well give the vet beds a go as a last resort. We really did find them the key in our case. If you do I recommend padding them from underneath as much as possible to make the whole surface more flexible. Good luck:)
 
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