bald patch

have 2 girl rabbits libby and dolly had them spayed last month as were getting frisky,they have recovered well but one has a bald patch appeared on its nose just below the eye . is eating ,drinking,and pooing seems well and bright eyed. found hair in hutch doesnt seem painful no blood just bald 2cm by 1cm. should i go to the vet or is this normal.
new member, advice wuld be grateful
thanks

You found the fur in the hutch from the bald patch ?

the bunny girl said:

You found the fur in the hutch from the bald patch ?

Click to expand...

the hair that had fell out was in the hutch , i hope im making sense first time we have had rabbits didnt think id get this attached,but they are now a big part of family.

Hello! :wave:

Do your bunnies groom each other? Is it possible that the other bunny could have been excessively grooming that area and caused the bald patch?

does the bald patch have any flakey skin ? mabey the other bun has pulled it out ? of could she have rubbed it on something when scent marking ?

the bunny girl said:

does the bald patch have any flakey skin ? mabey the other bun has pulled it out ? of could she have rubbed it on something when scent marking ?

Click to expand...

no no flakey skin, but they do groom each other
g x

If there is no flakey skin and no redness or anything else out of the ordinary then it could just be excessive overgrooming from the companion rabbit.

Unfortunately I don't know how to stop this happening, this is as far as my experience goes on the matter

tigerangel said:

If there is no flakey skin and no redness or anything else out of the ordinary then it could just be excessive overgrooming from the companion rabbit.

Unfortunately I don't know how to stop this happening, this is as far as my experience goes on the matter

Click to expand...

thanks for yur help
gx

same situation with my buns

interestingly I am going through an overgrooming problem with my male/female pair that started after she was spayed.

I have been back and forth with my Vet as well as contacted two rescue groups for advise... here is what I have learned:

Overgrooming can be triggered by (a) boredom, (b) aniexty, (c) health issues, or by (d) hormonal inbalances.

There is no easy solution for overgrooming... but we did have to separate our rabbbits because once a bunny has a bald spot the other bunny will continue to overgroom the area because it simply looks different.

Now our female bunny overgroomed our male bunny to the point where it becomes an open sore. Because rabbits have no natural immune system, should this happen you will need to get an antibiotic/anti-fungal cream to make sure the 2nd bunny does not get infected (which again necessitates separating the rabbits so the cream does not get licked off).

Our solution has been to separate them physically - but we always keep them next to each other so they don't panic or totally unbond - let the bald spot heal and the hair regrow (it can take about two weeks). We then re-introduce them in a neutral area to make sure they are not going to fight and then keep them together until the next bald spot appears (we usually go a month or so and then we have to go through the separating process again).

Now to be wary because the first time this happened and we separated the bunnies the girl responded by overgrooming herself. We combat this by providing plenty of distractions - the bunnies have loads of toys, digging boxes, fresh hay, hay filed paper bags, timothy grass tunnels, baskets, sea grass mats (a favorite to destroy in our household), and their much loved Cottontail Cottage to keep anyone from being bored.

If, perhaps, the girl is going through some significant hormonal changes because of her spay - maybe time will solve your problem. You can always contact your Vet and ask them.

If boredom is the culprit, than our Vet and rescue groups suggested lots of toys as well as at least 2 hours of running around per day (which is difficult when you have to separate your bunnies due to overgrooming - because that is two hours per bunny per day)

Overgrooming can also be caused by an underlying health issue in the rabbit with the bald spot. Some bunnies are sensitive to health cues we cannot see and perhaps she is trying to "lick off" something from the other bunny that is internal (obviously something internally wrong cannot be licked off but it may be a cue of a larger problem)

Aniexty, on the other hand, is a bigger fish to fry. We are now talking with our vet (since it has been over 4 months since the spay and we are still dealing with repeated overgrooming of our boy's head) about putting our rabbit on medication (such as prozac). Parrots, dogs and cats all commonly go on prozac or related med for such overgrooming problems so it is a possibility that it can work for us too.

Lastly people have suggested we put bitter apple around the bald spot to discourage her licking further but we have resisted that treatment because it is too close to our bunny's eye (so we are nervous about harming him) and because we don't want to punish him for cleaning himself (which bunnies do) because of her actions.

Anyway, I think it is interesting that both of us are experiencing this after spaying our female rabbits... and I hope any of the above helps you... because we too love our bunnies and know this can be tough to deal with (especially having to separate - even briefly - a bonded pair).

Overgrooming!

I rescued 8 bunnies. They are English Spotted Rabbits mixed with Rex and dwarf. They are mostly black and white. Someone tossed them out into the woods and a fox was eating them. I rescued the ones I could. I have the mom and 7 of her offspring.

Six are bonded pairs of sister/brother.(3 pairs). All the males are neutered Two of the females have been spayed for more than two months. All three of the males are being overgroomed on the same spot on their right shoulders. Instead of separating them I bought tiny dog T-shirts and kept it on them until the spot healed and the hair grew back. I then removed the shirt and two weeks later there is a new spot in the exact same place. One of the females has not been spayed yet and the other two are over two months spayed. Two of them are out running free in a "safe" room for hours at a time. I don't know how they could be so bored but I believe they are. They stress when they are separated. What can I do to help them? Because there are so many of them it is difficult for me to let them all have 2-4 hours a day of supervised play due to time constraints. On the other hand the two that are out and running around are still exhibiting the same behavior. They are litter trained. They know their names and give me kisses when I ask for a kiss. They will kiss my face if I just put it down near them. They are all very sweet. When we visit the vet they run to me for safety. I don't know what to do to give them a happy and healthy life. I can't separate them and I can't let them live anywhere else. We are all too attached to each other. What are good toys for bunnies. They do not love the cardboard inside the toilet paper roll. What else can I do for my babies?? If anyone can help me I would appreciate it. The vet is a bunny specialist and she can't figure it out, except for boredom, either. I change 5 litter boxes every night and put fresh food and bedding down every night. They have fresh hay and water 24/7. They are fed morning and night with PLENTY of fresh greens and carrots with greens. They have fruitwood and compressed hay cubes to gnaw on constantly, at all times. I may just have to keep the boys in shirts at all times.
Any help out there?

They are living in individual pairs? Have you thought about bonding them as a bigger group so they can share the exercise space and get a longer period out? If you got them all together they could even have the exercise space full time.

It does sounds odd even that several are exhibiting the same behaviour when your feeding and exercise regime sounds quite good given the constraints with numbers. When did the overgrooming start or have they always done it?

What sort of housing do they have when not out for exercise? It's possible they could be getting bored in there and then once they have the habit of grooming they do it even when they have lots of space. A bit like biting nails it's an unconscious thing once it's become a habit.

Have you treated them for mites? With so many you could ask your vet for a bottle of ivermectin to do it yourself rather than getting 8 to the vet and back.

I agree, you are right not to seperate, the t-shirt idea is a great one. You may find that if you continue that longer it will break the cycle and stop it eventually.

The diet sounds great, how do you feed it? Instead of using food bowls, scattering the food, hanging up the veg and using a treat ball. That will occupy them for longer.

Thanks, I am still upset though.

I had them all checked by the vet. No one has mites or any other physical ailment.
They are all siblings and when they first came in the house they all lived together. As they started to edge towards puberty the biting began. One brother bit the other and it abcessed and needed very expensive surgery to save his life. He is now fine and paired off with another sister. All the boys were neutered first. As they grew they separated themselves into the pairs they are in now. So each pair has a hutch to themselves. I have tried to let them out together once and it was a disaster. There was growling and circling and fights and bites. There are too many to risk it again as I only have two hands and I want no more injuries. One little girl, my little Isabeau, came to me after being attacked. She had five holes in her and the vet was not sure she would make it long enough to have the surgery to close the largest hole in her throat which was the size of a half dollar. She only weighed 1.2 pounds at the time and was over 12 weeks old. I gave her antibiotics both internal and external and that was when I bought all the little t-shirts because she took her bandages off but left the clothes on. Isabeau is still smaller than the rest but she recoverd completely and needed no surgery. I took care of her every two hours around the clock. She has not been spayed yet. When she came in the house her brother, Simon, was already here and neutered. He immediately went to her crate and has never left her side since. She chewed a perfect circle, the size of a quarter, through his t-shirt to get to the spot she chews on. So far she has not hurt him, she just chews the hair. The other two seem to be leaving the t-shirts on. I hang carrots from the top of the hutch. I have a covered place for them each inside the hutches if they need to hide. I spread the food on the floor of the hutch. I do not use bowls. They have external water bottles. There is a littler box inside each hutch. I feel like I am failing these little guys somehow and I want them to have the best life possible. Isabeau and I are particularly bonded due to her original wounds and care. When she and Simon are out running around she follows him everywhere and does whatever he does. If he stands up she will stand up. If he runs one way she will follow. If she gets scared she runs to me. Sometimes, she particularly, does not feel safe if she is out too long. She will run to me trembling and after I pick her up and let her snuggle under my chin, once she stops trembling, I put her back in her hutch and let Simon run around a little bit longer until he runs over to the hutch and starts looking for her. Then he goes back in also. I have been so worried about the bunnies my poor dog lost too much weight,as did I, and now we are both trying to put weight on - this is easier for me than my dog who I am also worried about and do not want to let down. He is a black lab and until this past June we were all each other had from the time he was 8 weeks old, and he is afraid of the bunnies. They could not care less about him. The spot they were born in was surrounded by fenced in dogs(5) so they have been used to ignoring barks and such since birth. Any further help or advise would be greatly appreciated. I get them fresh produce very other day. As a matter of fact I am going out now to get more. I always throw out the food that has been sitting there, even if uneaten, and give them fresh every day. One of them has been pooping differently also. His pellets are smaller and dryer than they used to be. I gave him extra carrot greens but he did not eat them. He is still in his little t-shirt. But this problem began before the bald spot appeared. He will be going to the vet either Monday or Wednesday. I know I need to be less stressed because they can all feel what I am feeling but I am worried about a great deal. I have gone without a lot to make sure that everyone is fed properly. Money is tight and they all eat a lot. If you have any advice how to get my dog to gain weight I would appreciate that also. Thank you so much for helping me and my babies this way. We are all grateful.

I can't really think of much to suggest. What you are doing sounds great, they have a good diet, exercise and social companionship. It's possible that the original problem that was stressing them out has gone and the overgrooming is now just a bad habit left over.

As long as it's not causing physical injury to the skin, which it sounds like it's not with the t-shirts then I think you are doing the best you can.

Hay is the most important part of the diet - as you know. With that many rabbits it will be cheapest to buy hay by the bales as sold for horses to eat. Any good quality horse hay, timothy if you can get it, will be fine for rabbits. That will save you a lot of money over pet store hay which is the same stuff just packaged differently.

You might find that reducing the other parts of the diet (green and pellets if you feed them) will help as they will spend more time eating hay. You could try cutting everything but hay right back for a week and seeing if that makes any difference to the grooming. It should also increase the poop size. Watch the ones with the small poop carefully, if he stops eating or pooping altogether he'll need to see a vet quickly incase his stomach has stopped. The vet will also check to make sure his teeth aren't causing the problem.

Harry Simon, I don't have any help I can offer except to endorse the purchase of hay in bales if you can. It should save you quite a bit of money overall as well as providing the bunnies with the most important part of their diet. We also had a bunny who was over groomed by his partner and we followed a similar plan as yourself except with a baby's under garment. He always tried to pull it off until we hit on the idea of putting his front legs through the arm holes so it was like a cape. He used to look so funny running around with this cape blowing in the air. Eventually the over grooming stopped and we could let them be together without the cape.

I would like to say though that I believe you are a wonderful human being to do what you have done for these bunnies. Not a lot of people would have undertaken such a task so selflessly. Your dedication to them is so heart warming. You do need to look after yourself and your Labrador as well. If your health suffers you will not be able to provide them with the level of care you so apparently wish. I wish you all the best in your endeavours and hope to hear soon that you, your Labrador and all the bunnies are in the best of health.

Overgrooming!

I purchsed some new toys for eveyone tonight. Some wooden toy balls and some raffia hanging things. I haven't used the hanging things yet but only one of the pairs seems interested in the ball. The little wooden toys with the huge wheels I bought because I was told they might like to push them around seem to be more of a gnawing treat, but that is fine. It is better than gnawing on her brother! It is early yet. Also I purchased three new size XXS doggie sweaters. I stitched up the armholes a bit so they can't get their arms back out of them and I put a new sweater on each of the overgroomed boys.They really look unbelievably cute. I let everyone run around in their pairs after their sweaters were on. Two run around and play in one room and two in another. Then I switch up so everyone gets some time running and playing with each other and me. After about an hour and a half it was bedtime. I also am going to try and spice up their diet a little starting tomorrow. They have hay and water available around the clock. I feed them red leaf lettuce (I think they are bored of the red lettuce as they are still eating the carrots and greens and hay but their enthusiasm for the lettuce seems to be waning) and carrots with the greens twice a day. I do not feed pellets as my vet advised against it due to the carb content. I bought some dandelion greens and some spinach tonight and I thought I would try to mix a little in with their lettuce tomorrow. I don't like to try new things unless I will be right there if there is a reaction. Although I like your idea about stopping everything but the carrots and their greens and they hay. Maybe it is food related and not boredom. I also think you could be correct that it was a bad habit that just needs to be stopped. I think if they can just get used to the sweaters the overgrooming will stop and the sweaters are thicker to chew through than the T-shirts. I thank you for the hay bale advise. I live near a horse farm. I will see what I can find out from them.
I thank you for all of your advise. Please know how much I appreciate your support. I definitely needed the support. It is good to know you are out there. I have felt very isolated going through all of this bunny trauma alone. Most people just tell me to get rid of them or to just keep two. How does one get rid of their children? Anyway, aside from my vet, I am thankful and grateful for your understanding.
My lab had cooked ground meat and pasta and some of my chicken mixed in with his food tonight. He was thrilled! Now if I could just get everyone on a schedule where I can still clean and feed everyone, but get to bed before 3 or 4 am that would be great. That is my next challenge.
When I figure out how I will try and post everyone's photos.
Thank you again for giving me peace of mind.

Overgrooming!

It looks like -at least so far - no one tried to eat anyone else today. They all seem interested in the toys. Even just chewing on the raffia that I threaded around the hutch interests them. THey like the hanging toys also. I will have to be very conscious of keeping them mentally stimulated and opefully everyone's hair will grow back and tey will be happier little bunnies.

So far so good. I am always open to more advice or help.

Thanks so much!!

From all 8 bunnies, me and my dog also!:bunny:

I'm glad to hear the new toys are a hit

Are you in the US? There might be a chapter of the house rabbit society near you: www.rabbit.org they sometimes hold events and you might find people that understand how you feel about bunnies and can give you tips of where to get supplies locally.

Have you got a garden? If you have space then growing your own bunny food can be a big saver too. Seeds are very cheap compared to buying veg from a shop and simple greens are quite easy. Dandelions grow as weeds!

Thanks!

The House Rabbit chapter near me has become dormant for medical reasons. I would love to be able to grow my own carrots and lettuce. I did try in the summer but not much grew and what did the wild critters got to. I live in the midst of a pine forrest. There is really no garden or lawn as everything is covered in fallen pine needles. Even dandelions do not grow here. Now everything is covered in snow.
Yes, I am in the U.S. I was thinking of trying to clear a small spot in the spring and cover it with mesh wire so the vegs would grow and the bears, possums, raccoons, etc... will not get it. This time of year nothing would grow. Since Saturday (today is Monday) I have gone through 24 bunches of carrots. I will run out today and get more carrots, lettuce, and TOYS. I hope the toys keep them stimulated enough to just play and not try to eat each other.
My only current worry is the boys in the sweaters cannot groom themselves the way they would like and I do not want them to become frusrated. I was taking the sweaters on and off but then they don't get used to it. So now I am only taking it off once a day to give them a chance to run around without it. Then it goes right back on. So far they seem okay with this.
Thank you again! This site has brought me a great deal of help and peace.:wave:

Yes, it's the middle of winter here too so not much growing. I think pine needles contain something that stops other things growing so you might do better with raised beds. That's where you put a wooden frame down and then fill the middle with good soil. I grow carrots in plastic storage boxes but you'd need a lot if you get through that many carrots

Rabbit poop is great fertilizer so you might find that if you clear an area of pine needles off the surface and then dig in lots of rabbit poop it would gradually become fertile.

Are you buying fresh food from the super market? If you may it to the horse farm you might find they sell carrots by the sack for horses. they tend to be the ones that grow wonky so the human shops don't sell them but they are fine just funny looking.

Vegs

Thanks again! That above ground growing is a great idea. I was never much one for gardening but for the bunnies well being I can be convinced. The rabbit poop for fertilizer is something I never knew. However, I definitely have a great deal of rabbit poop!!
The toys seem to be doing their work for the ones in the hutches. They love the things hanging from the top, and the raffia I wove through the sides. The ones who run around free in a "safe" room for about 6-8 hours a day do not seem interested in the toys at all. Even when I tried to play with them. The little girl, Jessica, seemed afraid of them. She did, however, down over half a dozen dandelion greens in about 2 seconds. She is the one who overgroomed her brother, Arthur, the worst. Poor little Arthur is the tiniest (besides Isabeau who was the one who came in wounded) and Jessica licked him a bald spot about 3cm by 2cm. He has had the sweater on for 3 days now and when I took it off today and checked the spot, there is fuzz already beginning to grow back in.
A friend of mine suggested I teach them to play chess if they are so bored and need intellectual stimulation. :lol:
I bought dandelion greens and they also seem to be a hit. No one liked the spinach. Not one of them even nibbled on one leaf. It seems that they all pretty much like or do not like the same things. I wonder how much of that is genetic since they are all full siblings.
I will check at the horse farm about the carrots. I never even thought of that. That is another fabulous idea. Thanks. They know me in the supermarket and go in the back to bring me out a crate of carrots. I think the wonky ones will be just fine for the bunnies. They certainly will not care and it will most likely save me some money.
My birthday just passed and a friend of mine sent me 50 pounds of Timothy Hay and Orchard Grass for my birthday. It just arrived. I have to keep some of it in the trunk of my car as I have nowhere else to put it that is safe from the wild animals. That will help a great deal.
They have learned that when I come home with those large grocery bags it is good for them. I let them run around in their pairs every night while I am changing the litter and the fleece in their hutches. They like to run over to the bags and eat whatever they find right from the bag. They think they are getting away with something. It is very cute, especially my little boys in their sweaters. Their facial expressions are funny.
Thank you so much for all of your very valuable advice.
The bunnies all thank you also!:wave: