Skin problem, and nasty pics links!

Hi everybody, this is a follow on from an earlier post in the health section.
One of my work colleague somehow succeeded to get me to look after her bunnies while she is away for a rather long time (I now have 13 buns!!). Passing over the grump and the problems it causes me with my overzealously territorial house buns :roll:, I do have a rather difficult health question.
This is in no case a problem of neglect of the bunny as my colleague is always at the vet trying to get this sorted, but having seen for myself close up the skin condition of this tiny mite I am getting concerned for his well being as well as for the health of all the other buns at mine. Mostly due to the fact I have a family of rexes with 12 days old babes. We are keeping a strict control to make sure nothing will be transmitted, my oh we are both environmental microbiologist so that helps a bit...
Anyway back to the point. The bun is a tiny netherland dwarf about 0.7kg and 6-8 months old I think. He developped a bald patch on the top of his head and got treated for possible mange. He had three treatments of ivermectin. After the first shot it seemed to clear up, but then no more effect was seen. The problems are now extended as well on his chin and around his eyes as you can see from the pics underneath. If anybody has any more idea about what that could be or has seen that before please share it, as I am quite concerned. They did have a look for possible ringworm but it seems that it is not that either.
I am anyway taking him to my vet who is specialising in skin conditions this afternoon, but any recommendation is welcome.

top of the head
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/SophieM_bucket/DSC02003.jpg

eye, slightly not very happy to be held
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/SophieM_bucket/DSC02005.jpg

The poor little chin
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/SophieM_bucket/DSC02008.jpg

Thanks in advance
Sophie xx

Looks like Treponematosis (Rabbit Syphillis) to me. The genitals are not always effected

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171321.htm

SophieM said:

top of the head

eye, slightly not very happy to be held

The poor little chin

Thanks in advance
Sophie xx

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Poor bun, looks so uncomfy

Jack's-Jane said:

Looks like Treponematosis (Rabbit Syphillis) to me. The genitals are not always effected
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171321.htm

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That does look like a very possible lead. I did not know that the genitals were not always affected. I did check his "underneath" and he is ok down there.
Am I right to think that some buns can be asymptomatic carriers? That could explain why the girl does not show any symptoms. I think I will then bring them both to the vet tonight.
Thank you very much, in a way I hope it is that as it can be cleared and it is only transmissible by contact.

Sophie xx

Another little question. If it is syphillis, the treatment is some depocillin jabs is that right? I read on the link from Jane that there is a risk of diarrhea, basically nothing good too. Has anybody had any problem during the treatment of some buns? Just to know if there is something I could do to make sure nothing bad happens. Also I talked to the owner, and she is completely trusting me to take him to the vet and try to treat him ? bit worried there if anything bad happens) but she would prefer to wait and see that it clears up to possibly treat the other bonded girl. Does that mean that they will need to be treated both again in x weeks if it clears, as the girl could be a carrier and might re-infect the little boy?
I seem to be asking rather a lot of questions thank you so much for your help, this forum saves the little bit of sanity that I have left.

SophieM said:

Another little question. If it is syphillis, the treatment is some depocillin jabs is that right? I read on the link from Jane that there is a risk of diarrhea, basically nothing good too. Has anybody had any problem during the treatment of some buns? Just to know if there is something I could do to make sure nothing bad happens. Also I talked to the owner, and she is completely trusting me to take him to the vet and try to treat him ? bit worried there if anything bad happens) but she would prefer to wait and see that it clears up to possibly treat the other bonded girl. Does that mean that they will need to be treated both again in x weeks if it clears, as the girl could be a carrier and might re-infect the little boy?
I seem to be asking rather a lot of questions thank you so much for your help, this forum saves the little bit of sanity that I have left.

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Depocillin injections is the usual treatment for Treponematosis. Whilst this abx is classified as 'high risk' for causing gut dysbiosis it is usually well tolerated. A good high fibre hay based diet aswell as a probiotic such as Fibreplex will help protect the guts.
Depocillin is usually given once a week for 6 weeks to treat Treponematosis. I have never had a Bun develope a gut problem with this regime.
In some cases of severe infections, eg pneumonia, Depocillin may be required to be given much more frequently, even daily. This will increase the risk of gut dysbiosis and it would be worth considering administering QUESTRAN (Cholestyramine) simultaneously. Here is some info about why Questran may be helpful:
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/questran.html

I have never had to use Questran for a Bun on Depocillin once a week. Infact I had one Bun who was on Depocillin every 48-72hrs for a year and she never had a gut problem and I did not use Questran.

Whilst the course of Depocillin should resolve the symptoms of Treponematosis a flare up can occur at a later date. Although in the cases I have seen this did not happen and the effected Buns never had a recurance.

why is it at the 3rd photo, there looks like a piece of circular metal just above his lips?

Happy Hopping said:

why is it at the 3rd photo, there looks like a piece of circular metal just above his lips?

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Saw that weird thing on the pics and had another look for it. I think he just had a piece of dried coneflower stuck on his teeth, because everything is fine (he didn't brush his teeth before taking the pic!!)

I went to the vet this afternoon and he is fairly sure that it is syphilis too. We are starting the treatment on a weekly injection. As they are quite small I am getting some probiotic too. My vet seems to think that 4 weeks is enough to clear, maybe I should get him to continue for six weeks. But thinking of it, my colleague should be back after 4 weeks so she can sort out the end of the treatment. She will have given me a poorly little bun and hopefully get back some very healthy naughty buns, I feel used :roll:.
I think that since I started helping at the rescue I have learnt so much about every aspect of bunny health and especially this latest weeks...
Thank you for all the details. I will keep those in case anything weird happen.