Bonding - I think this was a good catch. U/D Sad News

Well started a bond last night for a pair of bunnies whose owner wanted some help with getting them together.

When they were dropped off I asked all the normal pertinent questions about health and eating etc.

I sat up all night with them, not because they they were fighting but because I wasn't happy with his eating and certainly not with his pooing. (see the attached photo for scale with the 5p). So having offered everything under the sun including plantain, apple, banana, super dooper posh hay and other delicacies, I decided to get my otoscope out and have a look. Both buns have dreadful spurs and I am actually surprised that they hadn't already lacerated their cheeks and tongues.

I needed to get the owners permission to go to the vet, so having just got back from the vets for a pre op check, we know that the wee boy will have to have all four incisors out and both will have to have full dentals.

Reason for posting this is for those who notice a slow down in their bunnies hay eating or that they become picky with their veg (this wee boy was reported to have stopped enjoying carrot) then please consider that it might be the teeth that are a problem and attend to it immediately. Both have had to have gut stimulants and are going to have to be syringe fed later (as neither want to eat soaked pellets or anything much now) in readiness for their ops tomorrow.

These guys belong to a lovely couple who really care for the buns, but just didn't spot the change in the behavior. I wonder how many other folks might have the same thing going on and not know about it.

I hate to think what might have happened if I had delayed the bonding until next weekend (which I was going to), as the folks work all day and may not have been back in time for this wee man.

Poos - a good indication that something is wrong.

Good post. I took advantage of the free national rabbit week health checks. Honey has spurs that need to be checked again in a few months.

I was going to say the same-an excellent post.

Always good to have pics showing you exactly what things to look out for.-Sue:wave:

Strawberry has stopped eating as much hay so asked the vet to check back teeth today. He has a few small spurs coming so we have to keep a close eye and take him back either in a few weeks or if he becomes picky or food.

Im really worried about him!

rachie_j said:

Strawberry has stopped eating as much hay so asked the vet to check back teeth today. He has a few small spurs coming so we have to keep a close eye and take him back either in a few weeks or if he becomes picky or food.

Im really worried about him!

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I read your other thread. I would just say try and reduce down the more accessable food - in other words the stuff that is easier to eat, as bunnies with spurs will always eat that rather than hay when they have any discomfort. Try herby hay, anything abrasive, including small amounts of grass. If it doesn't help and your buns starts to loose any weight (weigh every day on the bathroom scales if need be) then I'd say get back to the vets to have them checked again. Often a slight change in diet to more hay and less pellet is all that is required in a bunny that only has the start of a spur. Good luck.

Thanks. He used to eat loads of hay but wont touch it at the minute. Going to nip out and get some timothy hay and see if we can tempt him with that.

Sounds selfish but I really dont know how I would cope with a dental bunny! I work full time and leave my town at 7.30am in a morning so getting him into the vets for the day would be a nightmare if it needed to be on a regular basis. Plus after losing Graham after a GA last week we really dont want Strawberry to need one!

rachie_j said:

Thanks. He used to eat loads of hay but wont touch it at the minute. Going to nip out and get some timothy hay and see if we can tempt him with that.

Sounds selfish but I really dont know how I would cope with a dental bunny! I work full time and leave my town at 7.30am in a morning so getting him into the vets for the day would be a nightmare if it needed to be on a regular basis. Plus after losing Graham after a GA last week we really dont want Strawberry to need one!

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Having a dental buns doesn't necessarily mean repeated trips to the vets - just means keeping a close eye on what the bun eats, making sure that they are encouraged to eat more abrasive stuff. You never know it might not come to that. I'd try and get some herby hay like organic mountain or similar (Burns Nutrition) - have a look at the Hay Experts website and check out the mass of options. Even if you buy it locally, it will give you an idea of what's available.

The hay needs to smell lovely to encourage a bun to eat it, but it really comes down to them being hungry. If they are having enough pellet food or veg, they won't bother with the hay. Let us know how you get on.

Helen

Thanks for your help! Will keep a close eye on him and make sure he doesnt go off anything else, if he does will get him back to vets. Will cut his pellets right back and try mixing his veg in with hay to tempt him to eat more.

Sorry for hijackin the thread!

rachie_j said:

Thanks for your help! Will keep a close eye on him and make sure he doesnt go off anything else, if he does will get him back to vets. Will cut his pellets right back and try mixing his veg in with hay to tempt him to eat more.

Sorry for hijackin the thread!

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You're not hijacking it! I'm pleased you came on because you prove how important it is to notice a change in your bunny's habits. You noticed and hat was the point of the thread so good on you for adding some important info.

Hope Strawberry does well.

Very good post I can always tell when Santa needs a dental as her eating starts to slow down. She doesn't go off things but she chews more slowly and with her mouth open more widely.

Another good way to keep an eye on your buns overall health is to weigh them regularly - my vet says weigh them once a week and 3 weight drops in a row, or a more sudden drop of over 5% normal bodyweight should be checked out. Buns who need dentals may start to lose weight as they don't eat as much; also rabbits who are harbouring infections (like a bout of snuffles coming on) tend to lose weight too. It's not always the case but keeping an eye on weight is likely to be a good indication.

Great post Helen :thumb:

There has been some very useful info for me here, thank you all.

Bubbles had some molar spurs that needed burring a month ago. They'd been detected about 3 wks before that at a routine vet check so I was already keeping a close eye on her (even closer than normal) but still didn't see any changes (in eating habits or poos) until she stopped eating altogether and don't want it to get to that stage again.

golly,how could those teeth be missed?i dread jill having b in case she spots something that ive missed with her,then i would feel so ashamed.

Great post Helen.

Where did you get your Otoscope from? x

Fantastic post helen, very informative to those who haven't experienced this sort of thing, and i hope no one has to.

Bailey came to us with tooth problems for the outset. hes fantastic now and has really improved...

Sending lots of vibes for the ops x

rachie_j said:

Thanks. He used to eat loads of hay but wont touch it at the minute. Going to nip out and get some timothy hay and see if we can tempt him with that.

Sounds selfish but I really dont know how I would cope with a dental bunny! I work full time and leave my town at 7.30am in a morning so getting him into the vets for the day would be a nightmare if it needed to be on a regular basis. Plus after losing Graham after a GA last week we really dont want Strawberry to need one!

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Don't worry about coping with dental bunnies -2 of mine have had their incisors out and cope fine. Far preferable to repeat trips to burr the teeth down.

the only thing I have to do is grate the carrots and finely chop the celery. Plus I give them the shorter bits of hay that you find at the bottom onf the bag.

Helen - like others have said, excellent post and good luck at the Vets today.

I have had a bunny before that has his incisors out so im not worried about that. Its repeated trips to the vets for molar spurring that would do me. I just wouldnt be able to get time off work or go into work late to get him to a vets in the morning on a regular basis so really got my fingers crossed he doesnt become a dental bun!

Thank you all for your comments.

I have to say that I think it's harder for folks who only have one rabbit/pair/group of bunnies to spot what isn't good 'behavior'.

Having so many of my own rabbits and having fostered/bonded bunnies for a while now, I can generally spot something fairly early, even if every rabbit is very different from another when normal (different characteristics and all that), even if, as in this case, I had only seen them for an hour or so.

Most healthy rabbits can be tempted to eat something, whatever the something is. In defence of those who miss molars (maybe not incisors!), if you only have one set of rabbits, and don't have previous experience, you may just not know what a good poo should look like and how much a bunny should eat, and how a bunny should sit when comfortable.

Obviously it's much easier to see when a bunny changes in personaility from when you first became connected, but what if the bunny isn't a great hay eater when you first get them and you don't know any different? Hard to say the least. Even by reading shed loads of information on places like this, it doesn't make up for hands on experience and seeing loads of buns. I feel very lucky in this respect.

So, I won't be hard on these owners as they just need to be shown how to move forward with these lovely buns care from here on in.

The plus of this is that the problems seem to have made this bonding amazingly fast and the buns love each other massively, a benefit to them both going to the vets today.

willowholly said:

golly,how could those teeth be missed?i dread jill having b in case she spots something that ive missed with her,then i would feel so ashamed.

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I wasn't going to post.. I'm the owner of these two gorgeous buns, and believe me I do feel terrible, but I just wanted to say that in no way are these bunnies neglected. I really didn't see any signs of a problem until this week. Buttons' hasn't lost any weight, he was still managing to eat what he has always eaten and was full of beans. I am just so thankful and grateful to Helen for recognising the signs and being able to check inside their mouths. I am just hoping they both get through their ops okay.

Biscuits said:

I wasn't going to post.. I'm the owner of these two gorgeous buns, and believe me I do feel terrible, but I just wanted to say that in no way are these bunnies neglected. I really didn't see any signs of a problem until this week. Buttons' hasn't lost any weight, he was still managing to eat what he has always eaten and was full of beans. I am just so thankful and grateful to Helen for recognising the signs and being able to check inside their mouths. I am just hoping they both get through their ops okay.

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Hey Kirsty.

I know that you haven't neglected the buns and hope that this is reflected by what I have written above. It's plain to see, as they are very happy, friendly rabbits with no loss of condition.

I hope that this info will help others to see that it's easy to miss things - experienced or not, so this isn't a reflection on you at all, I think it's just valuable to help folks to realise, especially those who have just come to bunny caring for the first time, that it's not easy to care for bunnies.

Actually this is is very pertinent at the moment with Easter fast approaching as I fear that they will indeed by many people who buy bunnies with no intention of putting in as much effort as you, I and most of us lot here on the forum.

I do think that your wee boy will be a different bun from here on in, in particular because he has a lovely wife!

Speak to you later.

Helen