Back from the new Vets....UPDATE** He's Home....

Well.. my heads back in a tizz so I hope this post doesn't come out too jumbled..

but basically after 3 weeks of absoloutley horrendous experience and incompetence with previous vets, and 24/7 intensive nursing, we managed to pull snuggles out of a 2 week stasis (no thanks to the previous vet)..

He's been pooping great and normal for the last week, but couple of nights ago he suddenly stopped drinking and started doing something with his mouth so we've been syringing him water and giving him wet shredded veggies, I had a feeling he would need another dental already.

It's only been 3 weeks since he had his last one..

so managed to get him to his new vet this morning, the vet was great, very honest and much more approachable, and had time.. seems much more knowledgeable than the others, and all in all a much better vibe..

he wanted to look in snuggles mouth but I was having a hard time holding him, so the vet said he just plays up for me.. then vet picked him up and just carried him into the room next door where the nurse held him and they said.. he was calm as anything (my gf said he just plays up for me too. soo)

Anyway he came back with a look on his face that I knew wasn't very good.

he basically said...

"your going to have a lot of problems with this bun"..

His back teeth have spurs, and one of them is misaligned, and also his molars are misaligned etc. (the last vet said they werent too bad)

He said considering the rate at which his teeth are growing too (only 3 weeks since last dental).. wer'e probably looking at dentals every 4 weeks.

He also said that we've probably missed the boat so far as getting him to eat more hay etc, and he thinks that the reason he never really ate hay in the first place is because his teeth have never really been fully aligned, which is also what I was thinking..

he said he can remove some teeth, but wouldn't really want to remove the molars etc, as it wouldn't be fair to the bun, and even then he said there is a good chance they will grow back.

He also said it's likely that that he can/may go in and out of stasis because of this..

Soo..

basically he had a dental done
went into stasis
vet did absolutely nothing except make the situation worse
we started him on fluid therapy,meds and intensive nursing at home
pulled him out of stasis
And now he has to go back in tommorrow for another GA and anothe Dental, and he's only 1 week out of stasis..

Last time he stopped eating because of his teeth
this time he stopped drinking instead..

sigh!..

so it seems we are back at a decision stage, and don't really know what to do.

all the last few weeks has cleaned us out financially (I'm a carer so only on an allowance etc)
and the re-occuring cost of dentals etc would require some (I don't know how) kind of changes in my life
also the stress and trauma of a monthly GA will take its toll on snuggles
and hes such a wriggler, and squirmer and absoloutley hates anything going near his mouth that I don't think he would be a good candidate for consious dentals, and I'm not sure what my feelings are on that anyway, (I know it's a hot topic) but I think it would absoloutely terrify him, which could lead back to stasis..

Where do we go from here?....:roll:

he's booked in for 10am tommorrow for his next dental. but it just feels were kind of right back were we started.

but at least this time, he's got a full belly and hopefully a more competent vet.

any insights, suggestions.. I'm all ears, (not sure about the state of my brain though at the moment). Theres been so much stress, vets, meds, poking and proding, nursing, and having to watch snuggles suffering, and not being himself etc and trying everything we can to help him. that it's starting to feel like were just terrorising him now and I can't remember the original snuggles..


M

Oh gawd :?

Well at least Snuggles now appears to have a Vet who knows what he is talking about. To be honest I would just take things one step at a time.
Get Snuggles through this Dental first. Also, have a chat to the Vet about setting up a Direct Debit so you pay a small amount each month toward Snuggles ongoing treatment. Many Vets really are not 'just in it for the money' and will be willing to work with a client so long as some regular payments are made. Then if you ever have a bit of extra cash you can 'show willing' and pay off some more of the account too.

I have an elderly Doe who developed Dental problems at the age of 7. Weird as she had never had any problems before and was a great hay eater. She started to need Dentals every 4-6 weeks. I do not agree with conscious Dentals and they would not be possible for this Bun anyway. The problem teeth are far too close to a blood vessel. One slip and :shock:
However, we have now got the gap between dentals up to 10 weeks. Her last Dental was on 12th December. She still wont eat hay but she will eat LOTS of grass. I think its the grass that's making a huge difference.

Sooooooo what this epistle is trying to say is dont think too far ahead for now. Talk with the new Vet about your concerns. It sounds as though he will be willing to listen. Good luck and please keep us updated about Snuggles.

Oh, if you are on any means tested benefits aswell as your Carers Allowance you would be eligible for subsidised treatment for Snuggles from the RSPCA/PDSA. I do know that these charities have different criteria for treating ongoing Dental problems in Rabbits. An RSPCA Vet I know of has said that they 'seldom treat a Dental Rabbit'. But that is just what one RSPCA Vet has said. I dont know if the criteria is different at the various RSPCA Hospitals.

As Jane says, don't think too far ahead at the moment and see how the dental goes. Sounds like you have found someone decent now (you will have to let me know who it is) who knows more about rabbits than your previous vet.

I bought Homer some of the "grow your own" from Hay experts as it grows quick and quite long and try to encourage him to eat that to get his teeth down - he loves it. He does eat grass too but still needs his regular dentals.

Good luck with the dental.

Hi Jack's Jane and Bunny Babe..

thank You.. and you know I think your right, I think I kind of panicked, it's been such an emotional rollercoaster, and sleep deprivation etc, constant state of worry etc, etc.. my mind went into overdrive..

reading your replies made a lot of sense and I calmed down a bit, and thanks for the info and advice, I copy all of this into a document.. in fact I think everyone thinks Im a bit nuts... I think all bunny owners kind of have to be..:roll:

it has been a long month that's for sure..

And well, here's the update from his dental today!

He went in at 10am (had a good feed before he went in)

Picked him up at 2.30pm

I wanted to speak to the vet to find out the full extent of what he saw today, but unfortunately he was dealing with an emergency so I had to go off what the nurse told me..

She said he had a cut on his tongue from one his spurs, so theyve treated that, and dealt with the spur.

Then she said they clipped his insicors and molars and my own jaw kind of dropped as I read some stories about clipping, I thought they were trimming them. The new vets does have a full dental suite on suite though so I'm hoping they used to right tools etc.

They also had a good look in his ears while he was asleep because I told them he's been scratching his ears a lot, but they said they couldn't see any issues in his ears.

soo..

they gave him baytril for the cut in his mouth, and they also gave him SQ fluids just to make sure everything stays hydrated properly until he drinks, though they said he wasn't dehydrated anyway when he went in..(what a difference compared the last who wouldn't even give him fluids when he was a week into stasis with an impacted gut)

they never gave him a painkiller injection, but they did give me a new bottle of metacam to take home. which the other vet wouldn't and said not to give him any until tommorrow though because I gave him some last night..

I'm not sure if maybe he peed on hiself as the bottom of his back feet are yellow and he's a bit pongy..

They also said they want us to take him back on tue for a post dental check up and just make sure everything is ok..

and well his recovery tonight seems much quicker than his last dental at the other vet.

he perked up as soon as he got home, and went exploring..(last time he went in his basket and hardly moved all night)

about half hour later I mashed a bit of veg up for him and he had a go at that, and managed to chomp through quite a bit of it..though he kept jiggling his mouth so he is obviously sore..

Then in the last hour, I came back into the room and he was at his food dish munching his way through some pellets.. then went and chilled out on his blanket, and even rolled over a bit the way they do when they wash their paws..

So all in all it seems like he has recovered supprisingly quick, especially compared to his last dental, (but that was the other vet).. so do you think this means his whole experience today was less traumatic for him? even though he had more work done..

Also he keeps sort of jiggeling his mouth is that normal? I was thinking he is probably sore and trying to get used to the new feel in his mouth..

soo.. so far so good, he seems to be recovering very well. but I am staying up witih him tonight to keep a close eye on him anyway.

just wanted to get this update in before it gets too late, and to say thank You for your replies

BBabe.. I will PM you

M

This sounds like great news so far. Just wanted to wish you all the best with his on going progress.

Thank You DeeLove..

I don't know what I would of done without this place, and everyone here..and all the good vibes!..

there is so much light here I bet you can see this forum from space...

M

All sounds to have gone well
His mouth may be a bit uncomfy for a day or so but the fact he is already eating is fantastic !!
He'll probably sleep well tonight and then be pestering you for breakfast at 6am!! :lol:

The previous vet sounds pretty useless so I'd get him checked again in 4 weeks time to see how his teeth are doing but wouldn't assume he'll necessarily need another dental then.

As you know, teeth are continually growing and because he was in stasis and not eating for so much of the time after the last dental that means little or no wear so they in effect grow faster than normal (even for a bun with bad teeth normally).

Tam

Sounds like it went very well and you have found a good vet now (thanks for the details).

I know I panicked too when I found out that Homer had problems and thought it was a death sentence, I cried and cried and didn't sleep until he went for a follow up to his dental- it is not so long as you have a good vet. My vet explained everything and how we could "control" the situation.

Did your vet take a skull X-ray, if not you may want to ask for it next time so you can see the full extent of any teeth problems.

Try to get some sleep now.

Thanks! Everyone..

He is going to have an x-ray on his next dental, but he seems to off stopped hunching and looking uncomftable since his teeth were done too.. I thought he was still having stomach issues, but maybe they hunch when theyre mouth is sore too?....

I did finally manage to get some sleep this afternoon..collapsed more like.. as I stayed up all night to keep an eye on him and keep him warm, but he was fine through the night, even got a binky out of him this morning.. he's eating small amounts of veg, pellets and done a few normal looking batches of poop..

He still seems reluctant to drink though, I don't know if he's scared of drinking as It was when he was drinking the other night that he suddenly stopped and started pawing at his mouth, then wouldn't touch his drink since.. and still won't so I'm still having to try and get water in him, but I'm hoping he will start drinking again soon once he realises he can (hopefully)

Tamsin.. Thanks for that, you know with everything I completely overlooked that, I had a DOH! moment.. but for all the right reasons.. (you should be a detective eh)

Thanks everyone for your wisdom and blessings..

I will keep ya posted.. he's chilling out on his blanket at the moment.. which sounds like a great Idea..

M

Does he like pineapple? You could put a dash of fresh pineapple juice in his water to try and tempt him. Also, if not already doing it, put it in a bowl for him to drink it - mine tend to drink a bit more from the bowl, they also like it at room temp so I add a dash of boiling.

Sounds like he is doing well, his tongue is probably still a bit sore too. If he is eating any veg he will get fluid from that too.

Glad you got some sleep too.