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HELP! Head tilt U/D "all better" video

VikkiVet

Mama Doe
i've just been out to give the rabbits their veg and hay and Indi seems to have a head tilt. She was in her bed with Phoenix looking sleepy and didnt get all excited when i arrived, like she usually does. i stroked her and she startled a little, but her head remained tilted over. i put the veg in - Phoenix was and is acting normally and dived right into. Indi got up and is eating happily but definately with her head to one side. she has startled very slightly twice when i have touched her left cheek (head is tilted clockwise) and when chewing kept her head tilted. she doesnt seem in pain and has no other symptoms. last panacur was May.

help! now what? (uploading pics at the mo, will post soon). Do i take it that this is likely to be EC? could it be anything else? trapped nerve, sore muscle etc? (clutching at straws!)

If it is EC does she need the vet now? in the morning? can it wait til monday (being the weekend?)

Should i bring them both inside? (i dont have anywhere secure to keep them but they have been inside before and i can dismantle the NIC cube door barrier and make it into some form of cage

What else do i need to do?

aaaah! totally shaking and freaking out
 
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I am sorry I cannot give you any advice. I know how scary it is as I lost a bunny to EC several years ago. Please take the bunny to the vets ASAP.
Sending loads of vibes and praying it is not EC.
 
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Oh dear....

Could be a middle ear infection or EC

I'd start her on Panacur tonight if you have some. She really needs to see a Vet ASAP as she also needs a NSAID and abx too.

I'd treat Phoenix with Panacur too

I would bring them inside

Sending vibes

xx
 
From what I learnt from one of the guys who has done a huge amount of research over in the US (and works with a very prominent vet school), head tilt in itself is normally not caused by EC. EC lowers the immune system, therefore making the rabbits more prone to infections, so the chances are that this is more likely an infection (or possibly mites?). The infection will occur in the ear that is downward. You can get it cultured and that can tell you which anti biotic is best to use. I have a bun with head tilt and with the right antibiotic she came a huge way. I don't particularly want to advertise this guy, but if you want to know what forum I met him on so you can post a general post, feel free to PM me.
 
I have just PMed you back Vikki, but that was before i saw this :cry:

I really hope its just an ear infection, if you can get her to the vets before monday i would do

Please keep us posted xXx
 
Patch had head tilt and i worried like anything when i first saw him, i would definatly panacur both buns and see a vet who will prob put him on baytril incase of infection etc, i would also make sure he gets an anti - inflammitary as when patch had it i got told inflamation could be the cause of the head tilt ??
Hope he will be alright, is he managing to walk? eat etc? make sure their is nowhere for him to fall down, hurt himself on as he may be a bit unsteady

Just to let you know Patch responded to medication very well and his head was pretty straight within a week... this is very quick though as normally takes a few weeks/months and sometimes the headtilt never disapears, but if the rabbit can live with it its ok :) xx

EDIT--- Sorry i called her a he.... would correct myself but i said it a few times so im sorrrrryyy xx

Edit again.. here is the link to when Patch had it, it may help a bit :) http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=157878
 
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It could either be EC or an ear infection. Not all ear infections can be seen on examination. My Daisy has tilt from a a lower ear infection which was only discovered by x-ray. Both can be treated.
 
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Hi, well i took them both to the vet asap (queen mother hospital at the royal vet college, where i am a student). The tilt is fairly minor and she can still turn her head both ways. it actually went away when she was running around and trying to get away from the vet, but returned when she sat still and quiet for a while. otherwise bright and lively in herself.

They are now both on baytril for 7 days (0.5ml) and panacur for 6 weeks (2ml) - they said 3-4 but i've been looking it up and discussing it on RU recently and it seems rabbit savvy vets recommend 6 so i asked for 6 for both of them. Just dosed them up (struggled a lot so not feeling too poorly) and they are both eating hay. decided to put them out in their shed as its very warm in the house (heating on high because of housemates grr!) and i dont have anywhere really to keep them contained.

i wasnt given any NSAIDs and forgot to ask (too busy being a wuss and flapping/crying - never looks good when ur a vet student!) - do you think i should ask for some?

as i said she is eating and otherwise acting normally. bounded up into her bed in the shed in 2 strides so doesnt seem unsteady, but i might put the bed on the ground if she seems wobbly tomorrow.

being a student i got the out-of-hours consult for free and half price drugs so there are some benefits! will keep you posted on how she is. thanks for all the help and support - you were my first port of call when i realised she wasnt well and now i realise what a huge benefit being part of RU is.
 
I am glad you took the bunny to see a vet. I hope she is better tomorrow. My thoughts and prayers are with you x x x
 
thanks. just been out to check them again before i go to bed, she's snuggled up with her sister in bed munching hay. looks kinda tired but seems happy enough and her head is only very slightly tilted at the moment. will see how she goes in the morning, hope i get some sleep!
 
I'd def' ask for a NSAID.

Marie (Kubiak) posted this on another thread yesterday :

The clinical signs are due to both direct damage - where the parasite deprives the cell it lives in of essential nutrients by removing them for its own use, and indirect where the foreign proteins of the parasite stimulate the immune system to attack and destroy the infected cell, particularly when the spore causes the host cell to break open and release all the new spores and damaged cell contents. If the immune system mounts a very aggressive attack (dependent on infected cell levels, foreign protein reactivity, immune system function, concurrent disease, white blood cell type proportions and many other factors) then the protective response becomes damaging as surrounding normal cells are damaged by the reactive molecules released in response to an infected/damaged cell. These molecules cause further cell damage, further inflammation and delay healing so can actually prolong and exacerbate the disease process.
This is why metacam and other anti-inflammatories are really important in stopping progression. They don't treat the parasite but control the body's response to it. Steroids would act in a similar way but have a more widespread suppressive effect on the immune system and with an infectious disease it is better to try and keep the majority of immune function intact to stop the infectious organism being allowed to multiply unchecked.
Does that make sense (and was that even an answer to the question asked?), it's the kind of simplified explanation but there are still a massive amount of unknowns in the e.cuniculi disease process (am trying to get several research projects off the ground at the moment so hopefully more answers will be provided over the next few years).
__________________
Marie Kubiak
ECAMS Resident in Avian and Exotic Medicine

Great Western Exotic Vets
Great Western Referrals
Swindon
01793 603 800
 
It's very common for a bun to hold their head better whilst running around, and then to be worse when sitting (or stressed, or disorientated). I would also think that Baytrill won't do anything to help an infection. There are better, stronger anti biotics that work better with ear infections, so that might be something to bare in mind.
 
hi all,
thanks Jane for the info - makes a lot of sense. This morning when i fed them both she was quiet bit still hungry and went straight for the food bowl and has perfect coordination and balance. Still pooing and weeing normally and munching on hay. the head tilt seems only very minor now and she is able to move her head in all directions without any obvious discomfort. I've just checked on them again (trying not to be obsessive and do it too often!). She is still a bit quieter than normal but no head tilt noticed in the 5 minutes i was out there, and she's fiesty enough to steal carrot from Phoenix.

So now i am curious as to whats really going on - with so much improvement so quickly is it really likely to be EC? or is it that because it was caught so early the signs are going to remain mild? If its pasteurella or ear infection thats more likely to clear up quickly with medication right? I am still going to do the full course with both drugs anyway, but now debating whether to get painkillers as well - if she is fairly bright and happy and getting better or at least stable does she need them? i've no objection to giving them to her, just want to know why rather than doing it blindly!

i might bring them inside for a run around a bit later to see how she is acting, as currently she is just in bed eating hay (as normal) but then its hard to tell what her behaviour etc is like.

Will keep you posted
 
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