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What is EC?

L

LionheadLuver

Warren Veteran
Hiya

I want to learn more about EC, where it comes from, the symptoms etc. Whose most at risk, is it very common, is it common in some areas but not others?

Also, does preventative Panacur treatment stop or prevent it? Ie, if your rabbit has had EC, did you use preventative panacur?
 
So if a rabbit lives on its own, without coming into contact with any other rabbit's urine, it won't be able to contract it?
 
It could have contracted it from its mother, sometimes these things can lie dormant and get triggered off at a later point - a bit like cold sores randomely come and go through a dormant virus that flares up from time to time.
 
From what (little) i know, its zoonotic so can pass to humans as a carrier (we dont get sick but can pass it on) and can be transmitted on clothes etc because it is spread via spores. so even if your buns never meet another bun, they can get it via contamination. unfortunately its one of those complicated, indistinct diseases that are hard to treat and control
 
:wave: does that mean if I'm in contact with a bun who has EC, then I have contact with my buns, my buns could get EC? So, if I went to a pet shop (example) and didn't actually touch them could the spores still be on my clothes?
 
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fionabisset said:
:wave: does that mean if I'm in contact with a bun who has EC, then I have contact with my buns, my buns could get EC? So, if I went to a pet shop (example) and didn't actually touch them could the spores still be on my clothes?
Click to expand...

Yes and yes! (potentially)
 
Oh god i work in a pet shop :shock::shock::shock:
Does giving panacur help as i am starting my buns panacur on monday???
 
My bun got EC & associated head tilt, he was under 6 months old, he lived alone in my house and i was in no contact with any other buns. The vet said it was most likely from his mothers urine and then he got symptoms.

He was treated with 6weeks panacur once he got it, i never knew about panacur prior to this or i would have treated him with it.

He still has head tilt, rolls about 5-10 times a day and has minor bad spells. But he is back to as normal as he was apart from those items *if that makes sense! i.e. running about, eating loads, litter trained.

So some dont make it, some can make a full recovery and some can make a slight recovery, its a bit of a lottery really which isnt great!!
 
I knew they could get it from pee pee but I didn't know it was "airborne" :shock: All the more reason for me to stay away from pet shops selling bunnies.
 
its not really airborne but easily transmitted by contact with bunnies with active infections. but most bunnies dont have it so dont panic! just be hygienic and cautious!
 
There is speculation that it can be inhaled from the environment but as with many aspects of EC, no proof as yet. Not quite the same as it being airborne though, because I believe this theory relates to the immediate area.
 
With regards to Panacur treatment I was always under the impression that a 28 day course of Panacur is needed to prevent and treat EC. That the 9 day course will have no effect on EC whatsoever. So why do so many places advertise 9 day course to treat EC.

Is it that if a bunny has an ACTIVE infection of EC they will need at LEAST one 28 day dose of panacur to recover from current bought of illness?

And that a bunny who just CARRIES EC but is NOT active can have a preventative course of 9 days?

Also the 9 day course 3/4 times per year would prevent any non carrying bun from ever being a carrier?

Or do you frequently need to give a preventative 28 day course to ANY non Active or active bun, regardless?

Sorry if it's confusing, just feel it needs clearing up :lol:
 
vicki267 said:
With regards to Panacur treatment I was always under the impression that a 28 day course of Panacur is needed to prevent and treat EC. That the 9 day course will have no effect on EC whatsoever. So why do so many places advertise 9 day course to treat EC.

Is it that if a bunny has an ACTIVE infection of EC they will need at LEAST one 28 day dose of panacur to recover from current bought of illness?

And that a bunny who just CARRIES EC but is NOT active can have a preventative course of 9 days?

Also the 9 day course 3/4 times per year would prevent any non carrying bun from ever being a carrier?

Or do you frequently need to give a preventative 28 day course to ANY non Active or active bun, regardless?

Sorry if it's confusing, just feel it needs clearing up :lol:
Click to expand...


I believe that 9 days can be useful in lowering the spore count in a carrier thus keeping at a manageable level that the rabbits own antibodies can control and prevent from becoming an active symptomatic infestation.

I also believe that treating too frequently with a longer course can be detrimental in a rabbit that isn't fighting an active infection because it can lower the spore count and thus the rabbits antibody response will decline. Should the antibody count decline then the rabbit will have no defence should the course finish and the spore count begin to increase. There is also the risk that overtreating may cause the protooa to mutate and develop an immunity to Fenbendaole, as has been seen in some horse wormers.

In my suspected carriers they have a 9 day course of Panacur twice a year and at times of risk. Any I consider to have an active infection will have a 6 week course as will their cohabiting partners to protect them during the cyclical shedding cycles.

According to the binary sheets for Panacur rabbits who were treated with Panacur whilst being exposed to EC spores still tested negative for exposure after the experiment (http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=110797&highlight=panacur+binary). However timing Panacuring to coincide with the release of spores in a domestic environment would be near on impossible to determine.

My vets agrees with what I have written above as I have discussed it with her, however ask any other vet and I guarantee they will have a different opinion. Apparently even if you pin down FHB you won't get the same response everytime. :lol:
 
Sooz said:
I believe that 9 days can be useful in lowering the spore count in a carrier thus keeping at a manageable level that the rabbits own antibodies can control and prevent from becoming an active symptomatic infestation.

I also believe that treating too frequently with a longer course can be detrimental in a rabbit that isn't fighting an active infection because it can lower the spore count and thus the rabbits antibody response will decline. Should the antibody count decline then the rabbit will have no defence should the course finish and the spore count begin to increase. There is also the risk that overtreating may cause the protooa to mutate and develop an immunity to Fenbendaole, as has been seen in some horse wormers.

In my suspected carriers they have a 9 day course of Panacur twice a year and at times of risk. Any I consider to have an active infection will have a 6 week course as will their cohabiting partners to protect them during the cyclical shedding cycles.

According to the binary sheets for Panacur rabbits who were treated with Panacur whilst being exposed to EC spores still tested negative for exposure after the experiment (http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=110797&highlight=panacur+binary). However timing Panacuring to coincide with the release of spores in a domestic environment would be near on impossible to determine.

My vets agrees with what I have written above as I have discussed it with her, however ask any other vet and I guarantee they will have a different opinion. Apparently even if you pin down FHB you won't get the same response everytime. :lol:
Click to expand...

yeah thats pretty much it as i understand it. EC is one of those variable diseases where treatment, transmission, outcome etc varies massively by case. So the idea that regularly treating with panacur can suppress the immune system is very debatable, but may be true. Certainly if you have carriers amoung your gang regular treatment can reduce residual spore numbers and may prevent full-blown disease. i dont know where the 28 days thing comes from, as preventative courses are usually 9 days and treatments are 6 weeks + and 28 days falls into neither! I would always treat longer to be on the safe side. But as Sooz says, vets often dont agree! what can you do......
 
So if i were to treat My buns longer by how many days!
I could do it 18 days so then i would buy a tube per bun and do it twice a year?
I get so confused by these things :?
 
VikkiVet said:
i dont know where the 28 days thing comes from, as preventative courses are usually 9 days and treatments are 6 weeks + and 28 days falls into neither! I would always treat longer to be on the safe side. But as Sooz says, vets often dont agree! what can you do......
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why they started out with the 28 day recommendation as if you call them they now say 6 weeks, which is also what my own vets recommend too.

FudgeMallow if your bunnies have never had a suspected case of active EC I would recommend you worm them every 6 months for 9 days and during or after boarding and bonding.

I'm also bginning to debate the benefits of Panacuring post-operatively in convalesing rabbits, having heard many seem to start with EC symptoms after a surgical procedure :?.
 
Sooz said:
I believe that 9 days can be useful in lowering the spore count in a carrier thus keeping at a manageable level that the rabbits own antibodies can control and prevent from becoming an active symptomatic infestation.

I also believe that treating too frequently with a longer course can be detrimental in a rabbit that isn't fighting an active infection because it can lower the spore count and thus the rabbits antibody response will decline. Should the antibody count decline then the rabbit will have no defence should the course finish and the spore count begin to increase. There is also the risk that overtreating may cause the protooa to mutate and develop an immunity to Fenbendaole, as has been seen in some horse wormers.

In my suspected carriers they have a 9 day course of Panacur twice a year and at times of risk. Any I consider to have an active infection will have a 6 week course as will their cohabiting partners to protect them during the cyclical shedding cycles.

According to the binary sheets for Panacur rabbits who were treated with Panacur whilst being exposed to EC spores still tested negative for exposure after the experiment (http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=110797&highlight=panacur+binary). However timing Panacuring to coincide with the release of spores in a domestic environment would be near on impossible to determine.

My vets agrees with what I have written above as I have discussed it with her, however ask any other vet and I guarantee they will have a different opinion. Apparently even if you pin down FHB you won't get the same response everytime. :lol:
Click to expand...

So would you assume the safest option for a multiple bunny owner is to treat each rabbit with a 9 day preventative course twice a year and then if ANY rabbit in their care shows symptoms to treat that rabbit and their immediate cohabitant a 6 week course. Also at the time of treating the bun with symptoms other rabbits owned by this person that DO NOT live alongside the rabbits showing syptoms should be treated with a further 9 day course to build their immune system against recently released spores or that their twice yearly 9 days would be enough to (hopefully) cover their non direct risk?

Haha, sorry to make things seem so complicated, unfortunately I dont know where the 28 days have come from. I picked it up on here and reading a few other websites. The 9 days seem to be 100% though, although I feel it is often given out as incorrect advice to dose an active bun with a 9 day course as opposed to the longer. As mentioned though the extra 2 weeks couldn't hurt if treating an active bun though so 6 weeks is probably a more solid answer :D

Thanks so far:lol:
 
Sooz said:
I'm not sure why they started out with the 28 day recommendation as if you call them they now say 6 weeks, which is also what my own vets recommend too.

FudgeMallow if your bunnies have never had a suspected case of active EC I would recommend you worm them every 6 months for 9 days and during or after boarding and bonding.

I'm also bginning to debate the benefits of Panacuring post-operatively in convalesing rabbits, having heard many seem to start with EC symptoms after a surgical procedure :?.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for the info, this thread is getting confusing! Not had any suspected EC so just a 9 day course (Thanks goodness:lol: ) Starting it monday! Also is it 6months from the first day or the last day of the course!
Sorry to ask more Q's :D
 
My previous vet was under the impression that the 28 days figure was plucked out of the air to carry out the testing against active EC. The testers then concluded that 28 days was good enough, but that no-one really knows how long a course is necessary to really dampen down the numbers of spores enough.

From my experience, the spore numbers keep on increasing, and regular Panacur/Lapizole courses are necessary once a bun has had active EC.

I truly hope that one day a better treatment is found for EC, as I don't personally believe Panacur/Lapizole are good enough. It is also such a prevalent disease that it actually puts me off from having more bunnies at the moment.
 
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