EC - Urine..

I know i have posted about Parsley and Pringle but i just want some hopefully possitive stories, a couple of people have wrote some on Pringle thread but not sure what symptoms their rabbits got.

As i lost Parsley last week (r.i.p baby ) and now Pringle is showing symptoms of EC i am soooo worried.
Pringle was dry for a few days but today has been covered in wee... have bathed him giving him baytril and panacur... everything i should. He has avi-pro in his water too.

Can anybody tell me possitive stories about their bunnies having EC and being ok.... with the symptoms of wee'ing on themselves.

I just can't take it anymore... i feel so draind, and im constantly worrying... i just want some possitivity... i'm sorry..

So sorry you are struggling must be awful for you. I can't really give you any positives on EC as my bunny is only just being treated with suspected EC but he does seem to be improving slightly.

I am just wondering if propalin may help as Mad Bunsters rabbit Maddie was being treated for EC and then I had mentioned about the tablet my vet gave one of mine and her vet prescribed the propalin and Maddie is great now on this. May be worth mentioning.
I had a bun with an excessive thirst that lead to being constantly wet and was diagnosed with EC by a specialist vet andshe came through it brilliantly. The specialist vet I saw also gave me milk thistle to give her alongside the panacur & baytril

Thank you,
Thanks Kayj, the problem with pringle is hes on metoclop, zantac, paraffin and prepulsid for stomach problems so im not sure what else he would be allowed with that. Do all vets store the tablet? is it for EC or what (sorry im a bit stoopid). Sy taking him to vet tomorrow for blood tests so will get him to question about it thank you...
I think he has more wee on him today than he ever has though ...

Our beloved Jerry had EC which he lived with for the last 2 years of his life. And yes, it was difficult especially the bum baths but we both got used to it. The panacur seemed to slow the disease down. There is no reversing the damage EC causes but he still had a great quality of life - I think he must ahve got used to the wet bum. He bounced about as usual bullying food out of us and insisting on sharing our dinners, lunches, breakfast, snacks... - he was only poorly in the last month of his life and then not that badly as mostly he just got very thin - he went quite suddenly. I'm sure yu can imagine the state the lounge carpet got into but we felt it was worth it (carpet cleaning man glad of the business though clearly thought we were stark staring mad).

SO, yes, it is not easy but it is not all over for them just because he contacted this nasty condition.

P.S One other positive thing is that our other 5 rabbits have never shown any signs of EC though they are all panacured - it didn't actually spread.

bunnylover177 said:

Our beloved Jerry had EC which he lived with for the last 2 years of his life. And yes, it was difficult especially the bum baths but we both got used to it. The panacur seemed to slow the disease down. There is no reversing the damage EC causes but he still had a great quality of life - I think he must ahve got used to the wet bum. He bounced about as usual bullying food out of us and insisting on sharing our dinners, lunches, breakfast, snacks... - he was only poorly in the last month of his life and then not that badly as mostly he just got very thin - he went quite suddenly. I'm sure yu can imagine the state the lounge carpet got into but we felt it was worth it (carpet cleaning man glad of the business though clearly thought we were stark staring mad).

SO, yes, it is not easy but it is not all over for them just because he contacted this nasty condition.

P.S One other positive thing is that our other 5 rabbits have never shown any signs of EC though they are all panacured - it didn't actually spread.

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Thank you, unfortunatly in the last couple of months Patch got headtilt first, that cleared up, then Parsley got the urine symptoms and sadly passed away so now Pringle has urine on him im just trying to stay possitive for him and try get him through it...... i am trying to be so careful when cleaning/feeding etc etc...

My first bunny, Oscar was diagnosed with EC when he was a baby, I treated him with panacur and he's fine now, no sign of it ever again he's lovely and healthy, you'd never know. Hope your Pringle recovers soon. xxxx

Gingypig said:

My first bunny, Oscar was diagnosed with EC when he was a baby, I treated him with panacur and he's fine now, no sign of it ever again he's lovely and healthy, you'd never know. Hope your Pringle recovers soon. xxxx

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Thank you , what were his symptoms? glad he is ok xx

hang in there

one of my bunnies got head tilt last winter, one day she was fine, the next she was all wobbly

I took her straight to the vet, but the vet didn't know whether it was EC or the result of some other infection resulting in brain damage

over a few weeks she got quite bad with losing weight, but eventually she stabilised

At one point the vet said PTS might be the better option for her due to her diminished quality of life, and with her constantly soiling herself, but I was quite adament that this wasn't an option until I could see it in her eyes. Memories of her bounding around the garden full of life wouldn't allow me to take this option

I spent a fortune in vet bills, but I had a duty of care to her

She slowly got better, and started eating properly again. Still wobbly at first but being let back into the garden seemed to give her a new lease on life.

Today she is almost as fast on her feet as she ever was, trying to catch her is just as tricky, but I got smarter rather than she got slower. She still has a head tilt, and stumbles sometimes when jumping, and is still a little underweight, but her hold on life is just as strong

Yesterday, she sniffed and licked my hand, I like to think that she appreciates the care I have given her over the years

PS, the head tilt started the week after 5th nov, I remember it well, as I brought the bunnies in to protect them from the fireworks, but feel I did more harm than good, as it is quite warm in my house, and the change in temp, cold-warm-cold, may have brought on her condition. I don't bring them in anymore, I go outside and keep them company

Thank you,Im so glad your bun is alright, its so worrying isnt it . Patch got headtilt aswell and his cleared up with 1-2 weeks which i was amazed at... im just worried about this urine, prob more because i lost wee Parsley ...

Unfortunately with urinary incontinence and EC it is normally linked to liver or renal damage and the severity of this damage (caused by leisions on the organs) determines whether the rabbit will recover or not.

In my own experience my rabbits who have represented with signs of liver failure that was accompanied by excessive urination AND drinking AND weightloss have all lost their fight within a year.

What I would recommend you pursue is a full blood profile on Pringle, which can show you how badly, if at all, his liver & kidney function is compromised and give you some idea of what to expect. It usually costs in the region of £40.

The problem with Panacur is it cannot undo any damage caused by EC to the organs and it depends on the severity of this damage as to whether the rabbit can begin to heal itself or continue to live with the damage.

I apologise if this sounds unduly pessimistic but my experiences with EC have not been good.

Sooz said:

Unfortunately with urinary incontinence and EC it is normally linked to liver or renal damage and the severity of this damage (caused by leisions on the organs) determines whether the rabbit will recover or not.

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I have to disagree with this

Yes, both the Kidneys and Liver can certainly be effected by EC but the Urinary incontinence can also be due to neurological damage-ie the innervation that controls bladder emptying and the Buns ability to feel when they have a full bladder.
In this case I have found some Buns recover fully after treatment (Fenbendazole, Baytril, Metacam,).Some may have a permanent incontinence problem which, with good nursing care, can be managed.

So incontinence is not always an indication of Kidney/Liver damage
I have known several Buns who had severe incontinence during their 'active' EC but made a full recovery. Nomad, my little Loppy lad, is a blood test confirmed EC Bun. He has had a few episodes of incontinence which always resolve after treatment. His Kidney and Liver function are fine at this stage

Hayley, this is a positive story.......this gorgeous little man is George



He was a house bunny owned by a man down south, he developed EC which wasn't picked up straight away by his vet and so developed urinary incontinence, he also got flystrike, the owner had to give him up because he was weeing everywhere at home and they couldn't cope with it, thanks to brilliant veterinary care he made a full recovery and in June 2007 was taken in by a friend of mine who continued his care, last year he and his partner came to live with us and he has been fine ever since, obviously I check him all the time but there have been no repeats of the EC and his lives a full and very active life.

This is him with his partner


So EC bunnies can make a full recovery and go on to live 'normal' lives, please keep going with Pringles treatment and I hope that Georges story gives you some confort

As I posted on the other thread incontinence in bunnies with EC is caused by damage to the CNS rather than the kidneys. EC can cause chronic kidney faliure but this doesn't generally cause the urinary incontinence seen more commonly as an earlier symptom of EC

Been thinking about this a bit more ( I found a working brain cell !! :thumb

As I understand it the clinical symptoms of EC are due to the inflammatory response caused when an EC spore erupts into tissue of, for example the CNS. So I am guessing (not a Vet, just a frustrated with lack of definitive EC info Bunny Mummy!!) that if the inflammatory response is treated (with Metacam) the effected tissue might be able to repair itself :? Hence the clinical symptom resolves :?
So perhaps how much an 'active EC' Bun's clinical symptoms resolve depends not only on the treatment (Fenbendazole, Metacam and possibly Baytril) they receive but also on their own body's ability to repair the damage done :? This will obviously vary from Bunny to Bunny and what part of the Bun is effected :? Perhaps certain organs/body systems have differing abilities of repair :?

All of the above may be a load of tosh, I am just 'thinking out loud' :?

RodneyVet or Marie where are you !! :wave:

So you are basically saying some bunnies will respond to treatment better than others :?

From what I understand EC damages the cells it enters and these cannot be fixed, however when they cause the damage it also causes inflammation to the cell. It is the inflammation that can be improved therefore reducing symptoms and possibly letting the bunny carry on to lead a normal life. This is why I suggested anti inflammatory medication in the other thread.

If the EC can be kept under control for the rest of the rabbits life and therefore doesn't invade any more cells then there is no reason why the bunny can't carry on to live a normal life It is only when it starts to multiply and damage more cells that symptoms reappear. This is why regular panacuring is so important for EC bunnies.

Sorry I've obviously not made myself clear: My bunnies that have had incontinance coupled with weightloss and excessive drinking and urination have never gone on to make a recovery. If you just have the incontinance then it's less likely that it is related to liver or kidney failure or that it is in it's early stages....a FBP can help to determine this.

I've never yet had an EC bunny develop UIC due to CNS damage so have no experience to speak of from that side.

I just feel maybe it's worth have bloods done so you know where you stand which set of issue's you are really dealing with.

Hugo's There said:

So you are basically saying some bunnies will respond to treatment better than others :?

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That is certainly what I have witnessed. But as I have said I dont know !!

I am hoping RV will be along with some input later

But with anything there are always going to be some that respond better to treatment than others whether it is rabbit, dog or human etc, that goes without saying

I agree with Sooz that a full blood count would be good. The tablet that I was given is called Diethlstilbestrol this is more of a hormone tablet but it did work the Propalin is a muscular medication which may also help as I know Maddie is great on it.