Moral dilema.....

[Bluesmum]

Somehow at lunch the conversation ended up on morals. I object to fur being used as a fashion accessory. I wear leather but my argument is that I eat cows (ducks the inevitable hurled veggi sausage) so I can wear them.
One of the girls then turned round and said that if she ate fox could she then wear fox?
Kind of threw me a bit, so I was wondering what you all thought.......Am I a hypocrit?

****PLEASE don't turn this into a veggi vs meat thread****

[donnamt]

i think she had a fair point... i dont think any one animal is more important than another it just took me 30 years to realise it....

i have the guilt of a leather couch everytime i enter the rabbit room and i loved it soo much when i bought it over 4 years ago :oops::oops:

[ecudc]

I guess so, as long as the fox was dispatched as a sheep or pig would be in as stress and pain free manor as it is posible to do. Squirril sandwhich anyone?

[Becca]

Mmmmm difficult one i don,t know.
I wear leather and have a leather suite.Would never ever wear fur.
I eat some meat but would never eat lamb,rabbit,duck or venison.
Each to their own i suppose:D

[Bluesmum]

Don't get me wrong...I believe that everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions, I just don't like feeling like a hypocrite if that makes sence.

[Lucy]

Fur is a different argument really as they are raised solely for their coats. Leather is not that simple either, it is not always just the byproduct of meat products, it can be a very cruel thing too.
There was a program about Indian leather production on which was so terrible. Many major shops including M&S have banned indian leather from their stores.

http://www.petaindia.com/feat/f-leathertrade.asp

[donnamt]

Don't get me wrong...I believe that everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions, I just don't like feeling like a hypocrite if that makes sence.

if it makes you feel better, ste says that leather is a by product of the meat industry so would be wasted if not used (i still disagree and find non leather but im newly veggie) to hunt a fox and skin it alive is pure evil and thats probably the difference between the two.

[TermiteFrank]

One of the girls then turned round and said that if she ate fox could she then wear fox?

I personally would have no objection to anybody wearing the fur of an animal they have eaten the flesh of. Good luck to her on that one, though. Fox tastes horrid. :lol:

[donnamt]

Fur is a different argument really as they are raised solely for their coats. Leather is not that simple either, it is not always just the byproduct of meat products, it can be a very cruel thing too.
There was a program about Indian leather production on which was so terrible. Many major shops including M&S have banned indian leather from their stores.

http://www.petaindia.com/feat/f-leathertrade.asp

i knew ste wasnt quite right with the by product but i wanted to beleive it :cry::cry::cry:

[SisterMoonbeam]

I think if SHE killed the fox, skinned it and ate then she could wear it, if she could bring herself to.

The difference with fur and leather is that leather is a byproduct of the meat industry (in most cases) whereas animals used for fur tend to be killed for that reason. It is my opinion (please don't slaughter me for this please it is an opinion) that the slaughtering of animals is justified for human consumption but not for fashion. We need food, we don't need to wear the carcass of a ferret/rabbit/fox.

[elve]

I think if SHE killed the fox, skinned it and ate then she could wear it, if she could bring herself to.

The difference with fur and leather is that leather is a byproduct of the meat industry (in most cases) whereas animals used for fur tend to be killed for that reason. It is my opinion (please don't slaughter me for this please it is an opinion) that the slaughtering of animals is justified for human consumption but not for fashion. We need food, we don't need to wear the carcass of a ferret/rabbit/fox.

well I'll state the obvious - we need food but we don't need to eat meat - we need clothes but we don't need to wear fur or leather as there are modern alternatives.

Using animals for either is a choice everyone is free to make, but when there are alternatives to eating meat (as millions of veggies prove), you can hardly say it's justified on the grounds that 'we need food'

[Lucy]

I think if SHE killed the fox, skinned it and ate then she could wear it, if she could bring herself to.

The difference with fur and leather is that leather is a byproduct of the meat industry (in most cases) whereas animals used for fur tend to be killed for that reason. It is my opinion (please don't slaughter me for this please it is an opinion) that the slaughtering of animals is justified for human consumption but not for fashion. We need food, we don't need to wear the carcass of a ferret/rabbit/fox.

I find people apathetic to the death of animals as meat is so readily available in cut up forms. I think if someone had to actually kill the animal they wouldn't be quite so laid back about these type of statements. Of course some people can do it, no idea how they live with themselves though.

[webbkath]

Oooo this is a difficult one I'm veggie but I would have no objection to eating meat if I could 100% guarantee that it was raised and killed and in a compassionate and humane way my problem is I cant so I dont eat it. I guess the same goes for leather and fur but as Elve said there is no real need for any of it

[SisterMoonbeam]

well I'll state the obvious - we need food but we don't need to eat meat - we need clothes but we don't need to wear fur or leather as there are modern alternatives.

Using animals for either is a choice everyone is free to make, but when there are alternatives to eating meat (as millions of veggies prove), you can hardly say it's justified on the grounds that 'we need food'

I can say what i like as it is my opinion.

And the OP asked not to turn it into a veggie vs. meat eater thread so i won't continue down that path.

In my own personal opinion diet is important, fashion is not.

[SisterMoonbeam]

I find people apathetic to the death of animals as meat is so readily available in cut up forms. I think if someone had to actually kill the animal they wouldn't be quite so laid back about these type of statements. Of course some people can do it, no idea how they live with themselves though.

I have done.

And you have dogs, so you must contribute to the market whether you eat it yourself or not.

But again, don't want to turn this into a veggie-meat eater thread!

[nicolapompicola]

I think if some one goes shooting rabbits for pest control, I'd much rather them eat the animal and use it's skin for a pair of gloves or what ever, then to just kill the animal because some one says it needs to be killed. I beleive that if this is the case, the animal hasn't lost it's life needlessly.

If you can kill it, skin it, and eat it, then the animals fur is not just a waste product, and if you want to wear it, then you should be able to.

[Bluesmum]

Thought it might end up going down the veggi/meat route!
I tend to buy leather shoes because they last longer and I bought my full length leather coat from the help the aged shop for £10......

[Lucy]

I have done.

And you have dogs, so you must contribute to the market whether you eat it yourself or not.

But again, don't want to turn this into a veggie-meat eater thread!

Are you in a bad mood tonight? You're being very confrontational when no-one else is.

[Lucy]

Thought it might end up going down the veggi/meat route!
I tend to buy leather shoes because they last longer and I bought my full length leather coat from the help the aged shop for £10......

My veggie leather boots rock and they are as good if not better quality than leather ones.

[Bluesmum]

Veggi leather :shock::shock:
Is it made from plant fiber? Where do you get it from?

[Leanne]

Veggi leather :shock::shock:
Is it made from plant fiber? Where do you get it from?

Here!

http://www.veganstore.co.uk/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=1

*stays out of the rest of the thread* :lol:

[SisterMoonbeam]

Are you in a bad mood tonight? You're being very confrontational when no-one else is.

It wasn't my intention. Tone is so hard to portray in text lol.

When arguing a point i was always told to keep short and snappy for a better effect, i'm not meaning to sound rude.

EDIT: Though i did have to go xmas shopping in the middle of nottingham a week before xmas today, that may be reflected in my writing lol

But back to the point. I just think that an animal should not be killed for the purpose of fashion (my opinions on meat aside).

[Bluesmum]

Its moved??? I'm so confused!

[Leanne]

Its moved??? I'm so confused!

I just moved it in here with all the other veggie v meaties threads in case it gets heated. :lol:

[SisterMoonbeam]

I just moved it in here with all the other veggie v meaties threads in case it gets heated. :lol:

How many are there??

[Bluesmum]

:oops::oops::oops:
I'm sorry......didn't want to cause an argument!

[Leanne]

How many are there??

Too many :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Leanne]

:oops::oops::oops:
I'm sorry......didn't want to cause an argument!

Oh no its fine!
I just thought I should stick it in here 'incase' it got out of hand, as lets face it, when it comes to meat/fur etc it often does! :lol:

Better to moderate it and keep it on the straight and narrow! :D

[Lucy]

Have a look at these, http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=vegan+boots&_sacat=See-All-Categories

If you search for vegan boots or shoes there are quite a few that come up.

[Leanne]

I really want some polar boots from the Vegan Store but have no pennies :(

[Angie65]

All my arguments are mainly against the mass slaughter of animals for meat than someone actually eating meat. I have more respect for someone who captures & kills an animal themselves that someone buying 2p sausages from Tescos. A lot of the carcusses are wasted, so the animals died for nothing - & there's the how they were kept/killed issues. At least if someone home breeds pigs for meat, they only slaughter what they need.

I eat vegan - but I do have a leather sofa. I can see that's hypocritical, but I justify it in my head, that I have already given up so much, a meat eater has no right to batter me over my sofa do they??:lol: I don't wear fur or leather, I eat nothing that comes from anything with a face, I recycle, & I use energy saving light bulbs. I'm done here!:lol:

[smallbrownfrog]

I think we all do what we can. I think arguments arise from the fact that all of us have different boundaries of conscience/practicality/morality for an abundance of reasons. If all we accept that none of us do everything we could possibly do, (we would have to live off the land some where, isolated from modern living!) but all of us do what we can, and the fight against ignorance and prevalence of good information is the most important thing about any cause, then it is my personal opinion that everyone would get along so much better.