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I need help URGENTLY - I am worried this could be fatal and I REALLY need help NOW

S

senatorvass

Warren Scout
Hi all, I havent posted in ages. In quick summary I have 4 rabs, 2 lops and 2 rabbits whose Mum was a rescued wild rabbit and dad a rex. There are 2 boys 2 girls, the lops are Angel & stardust, the mixed rabs are Celeste & Moonlight.

(Celeste and Stardust are the boys)

Excuse my brief typing but I am monitoring rabbits, looking after a 2 year old and you dont even want to know everything else I am trying to do at the same time.

Boys are both neutered. They hate each other. Celeste has had to be indoors all week by vets orders and in the meantime Stardust Moonlight & Angel have made a very happy threesome. I have today reintroduced Celeste to the pack and he and Stardust are really really fighting. I have been out there monitoring and using a spray bottle to break them up but they are just relentless. They have never liked each other but I really dont think I can keep them all anymore this is just awful. I love ALL my rabbits very much but the 2 boys HATE each other.

If I had to rehome one it would have to be Celeste simply because SD and the 2 girls are so happy together whereas neither girl is totally comfortable with Celeste. Celeste is the loveliest sweetest friendliest bunny ever he is just a delight but he DOES NOT fit in my pack. I really need help and straight away.

I have to go to Heathrow tomorrow to pick my Mum up who is coming for xmas from America and I dont know what to do. The longer I isolate Celeste the worse it gets. I would only ever rehome him with someone who really truly loved and looked after him but I would be so sad to let him go but I just cant do this anymore. I dont want to sound selfish - trust me I have tried for MONTHS to sort them out. But you know I have a life outside of rabbits. I have a child and a house and a hell of a lot of stuff to do. And health problems. I just cant do this anymore I cant be here policing them 24 hours a day. And now neither of the girls wants to be with celeste at night so he is alone when its time to go in hutches. Please help.
 
senatorvass said:
Hi all, I havent posted in ages. In quick summary I have 4 rabs, 2 lops and 2 rabbits whose Mum was a rescued wild rabbit and dad a rex. There are 2 boys 2 girls, the lops are Angel & stardust, the mixed rabs are Celeste & Moonlight.

(Celeste and Stardust are the boys)

Excuse my brief typing but I am monitoring rabbits, looking after a 2 year old and you dont even want to know everything else I am trying to do at the same time.

Boys are both neutered. They hate each other. Celeste has had to be indoors all week by vets orders and in the meantime Stardust Moonlight & Angel have made a very happy threesome. I have today reintroduced Celeste to the pack and he and Stardust are really really fighting. I have been out there monitoring and using a spray bottle to break them up but they are just relentless. They have never liked each other but I really dont think I can keep them all anymore this is just awful. I love ALL my rabbits very much but the 2 boys HATE each other.

If I had to rehome one it would have to be Celeste simply because SD and the 2 girls are so happy together whereas neither girl is totally comfortable with Celeste. Celeste is the loveliest sweetest friendliest bunny ever he is just a delight but he DOES NOT fit in my pack. I really need help and straight away.

I have to go to Heathrow tomorrow to pick my Mum up who is coming for xmas from America and I dont know what to do. The longer I isolate Celeste the worse it gets. I would only ever rehome him with someone who really truly loved and looked after him but I would be so sad to let him go but I just cant do this anymore. I dont want to sound selfish - trust me I have tried for MONTHS to sort them out. But you know I have a life outside of rabbits. I have a child and a house and a hell of a lot of stuff to do. And health problems. I just cant do this anymore I cant be here policing them 24 hours a day. And now neither of the girls wants to be with celeste at night so he is alone when its time to go in hutches. Please help.
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firstly i think they need a bonding holiday. ie go to a local ish rescue(Arc is near twickenham, heathrow if janice has any vacancys for boonding) as they wont rebond on unneutral area. then if they can be rebonded you will need to white vinegar cleanthe house and then when they come home restrict their area. then once they are settled slowly week by week increase the area they are in. are the females also neutered? this would greatly reduce the risk of fighting as well as uterine cancer risk.

alternativly could you have the other rabbit living seperately and then possibly in future rebond with another rabbit?
 
bunlover said:
firstly i think they need a bonding holiday. ie go to a local ish rescue(Arc is near twickenham, heathrow if janice has any vacancys for boonding) as they wont rebond on unneutral area. then if they can be rebonded you will need to white vinegar cleanthe house and then when they come home restrict their area. then once they are settled slowly week by week increase the area they are in. are the females also neutered? this would greatly reduce the risk of fighting as well as uterine cancer risk.

alternativly could you have the other rabbit living seperately and then possibly in future rebond with another rabbit?
Click to expand...

thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it, but I just cant send them on a rebonding holiday. I have not got any money at all. The problem is the 2 boys have never been bonded in the first place. I just went out to check on them and Celeste is in a corner behind stuff in the garden and I wanted to put him in a hutch just to diffuse it but I cant get near him he is so jumpy.
 
I dont want to make it worse but would it help if I got another girl, so it wasnt split down the middle? Like is the problem that I have 2 boys two girls? If I got another girl would it just change the balace enough? And at night where do I put Celeste? The other 3 want to be in a hutch together. (I have 2 hutches) but I hate him being alone. Just went outside again they arent fighting but the 3 are on one side of the garden and Celeste is on the other.
 
senatorvass said:
thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it, but I just cant send them on a rebonding holiday. I have not got any money at all. The problem is the 2 boys have never been bonded in the first place. I just went out to check on them and Celeste is in a corner behind stuff in the garden and I wanted to put him in a hutch just to diffuse it but I cant get near him he is so jumpy.
Click to expand...

ok how about if you can seperate him into a different hutch for now and attach a run(can make it out of anyhting or bring him indoors while the others remain outdoors? then come new year when i imagine you may have more money you could give a small donation to get them bonded if i wasnt full i would offer to do it for you for free here but unfrotunatly i have an extra bunny with me at moement so my usual bonding area is taken. ok i apprichiate you are busy with baby and other things. how about bathroom geting white vinegared or kitchen and blocking it off then bonding them all in there. are they all neutered? where exactly are you?(thinking how far away from me you may b?) prehaps you could get someone to foster him temperarily for say a month or 2 so you can get together £35 to offer as a bonding donation? or if my circumstances have changed adn coco has been rehomed in new year(he is a foster/personal rescue)
 
senatorvass said:
I dont want to make it worse but would it help if I got another girl, so it wasnt split down the middle? Like is the problem that I have 2 boys two girls? If I got another girl would it just change the balace enough? And at night where do I put Celeste? The other 3 want to be in a hutch together. (I have 2 hutches) but I hate him being alone. Just went outside again they arent fighting but the 3 are on one side of the garden and Celeste is on the other.
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if signs of fighting seperate. dont get any more rabbits if finaces are bad until you could bond them properly for now get him a cuddly toy or bring him indoors. so less lonely. x
 
just seen you are in essex. maybe sarah j (xmissysjx or kris starlights animal resceu could help they are both located in essex? or possibly could arrange someone who could foster for you?
 
bunlover said:
if signs of fighting seperate. dont get any more rabbits if finaces are bad until you could bond them properly for now get him a cuddly toy or bring him indoors. so less lonely. x
Click to expand...

thanks again for your caring advice. I am in Essex, near Colchester. Near AlisonA who I have met a couple of times. :)

If my two boys go away together to be bonded what happens with my girls? I mean when I put the foursome back together will I then have ANOTHER problem? I see your logic about not getting another bun if money is tight. Just so you know I look after my buns very very well, I adore them and do everything I can to make them happy & healthy. And I have enough money for the daily stuff but I just spent £250 on vet bills, £600 on stupid car repairs, Christmas, having my Mom here from America etc so right now, yes I am totally broke!! The only thing that isnt perfect with my bunny setup is I have two hutches and I would rather they were all together in one. One of my hutches is fairly small - a 4' apex - the other is much bigger but not big enough for the 4 especially if the boys want to get some space from each other. So come new year I was going to try to think of a great solution for that. Any ideas welcome of course!
 
bunlover said:
just seen you are in essex. maybe sarah j (xmissysjx or kris starlights animal resceu could help they are both located in essex? or possibly could arrange someone who could foster for you?
Click to expand...

besides fostering, how could they help? bonding? I dont know either of them yet. :)
 
senatorvass said:
thanks again for your caring advice. I am in Essex, near Colchester. Near AlisonA who I have met a couple of times. :)

If my two boys go away together to be bonded what happens with my girls? I mean when I put the foursome back together will I then have ANOTHER problem? I see your logic about not getting another bun if money is tight. Just so you know I look after my buns very very well, I adore them and do everything I can to make them happy & healthy. And I have enough money for the daily stuff but I just spent £250 on vet bills, £600 on stupid car repairs, Christmas, having my Mom here from America etc so right now, yes I am totally broke!! The only thing that isnt perfect with my bunny setup is I have two hutches and I would rather they were all together in one. One of my hutches is fairly small - a 4' apex - the other is much bigger but not big enough for the 4 especially if the boys want to get some space from each other. So come new year I was going to try to think of a great solution for that. Any ideas welcome of course!
Click to expand...

no i didnt mean the boys go off to be bonded... i eman the whole foursome go to be bonded...else they wont ever gett on especially if they are sleeping in seperate areas.... i wasnt suggesting that you didint care for them at all!!! jsut that it may be didfficult to fund another rabbit and even if you did get another then it would still be a case of bonding tehm there isnt a way around that im afraid, best group set ups is a large shed wickes do some good ones and you can add in levels with a cat fla and a run attatched or free range of garden as you wish. alternativly they coudl all be free range indoors? or you could get 2 6x2x3ft hutchs and fit into an L shape with a large run area attatched(nb this is better than a double as they have more room as no ramp taking up space..... or try making your own custo wendy house?
 
senatorvass said:
besides fostering, how could they help? bonding? I dont know either of them yet. :)
Click to expand...

sarah runs a boarding for bunnys and also has bonded pairs and groups in the past... starlights may be able to provide fosterer lists or help bond for you or offer supportive housing and advice on general group therapy for them!
just a thought but celeste is he completly better now? (you said he was indoors on vets orders?) i think it may be best to wait and bond them when you have a larger accomodation to fit them all in rather than squasing them in at night too good luck ekep me updated! :)
 
bunlover said:
no i didnt mean the boys go off to be bonded... i eman the whole foursome go to be bonded...else they wont ever gett on especially if they are sleeping in seperate areas.... i wasnt suggesting that you didint care for them at all!!! jsut that it may be didfficult to fund another rabbit and even if you did get another then it would still be a case of bonding tehm there isnt a way around that im afraid, best group set ups is a large shed wickes do some good ones and you can add in levels with a cat fla and a run attatched or free range of garden as you wish. alternativly they coudl all be free range indoors? or you could get 2 6x2x3ft hutchs and fit into an L shape with a large run area attatched(nb this is better than a double as they have more room as no ramp taking up space..... or try making your own custo wendy house?
Click to expand...

Sorry I knew you werent suggesting I didnt look after them properly!!! Really I knew that! I just wanted to say it as I wasnt sure how I was coming across! :) Please dont worry about that at all!

The 4 of them going to be bonded sounds like a very good plan indeed. £35 sounds incredibally cheap for that though, it must be a lot of work.

I couldnt have them indoors again - Stardust & Angel were for a long time and none of us were really happy with it (including them). I get a lot more binkies outside! Will price sheds though.
 
bunlover said:
sarah runs a boarding for bunnys and also has bonded pairs and groups in the past... starlights may be able to provide fosterer lists or help bond for you or offer supportive housing and advice on general group therapy for them!
just a thought but celeste is he completly better now? (you said he was indoors on vets orders?) i think it may be best to wait and bond them when you have a larger accomodation to fit them all in rather than squasing them in at night too good luck ekep me updated! :)
Click to expand...

Celeste is fine thanks :) There is already a run around the 2 hutches but no roof and they can jump out of it so its pointless with regards to keeping them in at night. Maybe if I put a roof on it they could just be in the 2 hutches for now, open, in run and go where they pleased.

TOTALLY different thing but one I could do with help on - There are NO foxes etc in my area and my garden is totally rabbit proofed. However it is obviously cold and simply out of habit I insist on everyone going in hutches at night when I do dinner. This is right, isnt it? I mean... I shouldnt let them be free range overnight, should I? I just want them tucked up safe & I worry they havent got the sense to go in when they get cold etc.
 
senatorvass said:
Sorry I knew you werent suggesting I didnt look after them properly!!! Really I knew that! I just wanted to say it as I wasnt sure how I was coming across! :) Please dont worry about that at all!

The 4 of them going to be bonded sounds like a very good plan indeed. £35 sounds incredibally cheap for that though, it must be a lot of work.

I couldnt have them indoors again - Stardust & Angel were for a long time and none of us were really happy with it (including them). I get a lot more binkies outside! Will price sheds though.
Click to expand...

sometimes a local freecycle you get sheds given away? you could put a wanted ad on there...ebay often have some good deals... or try these sites
http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk/Wooden-Sheds/BillyOh-Overlap-Value-Apex
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Garden-Buildings/Sheds/icat/gbsheds
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?linktype=breadcrumb&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{10064}/categories%3C{10073}/specificationsProductType%3Dsheds__storage___workshops&&ts=1219397840077&ecamp=sch-goog-seas-100&gclid=CKD28__-xJcCFQ_UlAod9VLXSQ
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;j...t_by=price_1&fh_sort_order=1&fh_start_index=0
http://www.shedstore.co.uk/?gclid=CIb1ja7_xJcCFQZ3MAodt1nKSA
 
I was in your situation for 7 mth. straight. It's Minnie and Bernie, they were fighting like there is no tomorrow. There are bite mark on ea. of their body, and a lot of fur. In the end, they bonded.

What I done is if the fighting is too much at the backyard, then I separate them by hand.

I also take the urine soaked towel of Bernie and dump it downstair so Minnie can get used to the smell and vice versa.

It's also easier to bond a male w/ a female. When you try to bond 2 male, it can be trouble. But by comparison, I also thought bonding 2 female is even more difficult.
 
senatorvass said:
Celeste is fine thanks :) There is already a run around the 2 hutches but no roof and they can jump out of it so its pointless with regards to keeping them in at night. Maybe if I put a roof on it they could just be in the 2 hutches for now, open, in run and go where they pleased.

TOTALLY different thing but one I could do with help on - There are NO foxes etc in my area and my garden is totally rabbit proofed. However it is obviously cold and simply out of habit I insist on everyone going in hutches at night when I do dinner. This is right, isnt it? I mean... I shouldnt let them be free range overnight, should I? I just want them tucked up safe & I worry they havent got the sense to go in when they get cold etc.
Click to expand...

i wouldnt leave them out at night personally mine go in befoer dark as there are foxes everywhere...also they could dig out of a garden if not got a layer of underground mesh or paving around teh edge.... too many night tiem predators... a lot of people keep theier buns in roof'd runs in day time as dont ake a risk with cats even etc....or birds of prey etc... i persoanlyly like mine free range in garden but even tho we do have anti digign around teh garden edge i wouldnt risk it. you could make a lid for run and padlock it downanad under grass of run lay emsh of paving that way they could stay 24/7 in hutch adn run?
 
hmmmm, i have only quickly scanned this thread so forgive me if i have missed the point here lol!

Why cant you have 2 pairs, a male and a female in each pair?

I bonded my two pairs into a four sucessfully and there was no fights ever, however pebbles was never achknowledged and was ignored so i put them back into their pairs, is it an option to have them in 2 pairs?

where are you putting the four together? in the existing trio's area or somewhere netural?

xxx
 
I think Missy's advice to put back into 2 pairs is probably the best option for now, if that's possible. You can then look into bonding them as a foursome in the New Year once things are back to normal & you have more time to spend watching over them etc. :)
 
XMissySJx said:
hmmmm, i have only quickly scanned this thread so forgive me if i have missed the point here lol!

Why cant you have 2 pairs, a male and a female in each pair?

I bonded my two pairs into a four sucessfully and there was no fights ever, however pebbles was never achknowledged and was ignored so i put them back into their pairs, is it an option to have them in 2 pairs?

where are you putting the four together? in the existing trio's area or somewhere netural?

xxx
Click to expand...


They originally came in pairs as each set of boy & girl are brother and sister. But I dont really have the means to have 2 pairs that dont interact with each other. Just the way my garden etc is set up it isnt practical at all. And its too hard to tell who wants to be with who and I wouldnt want to seperate any lovebirds.

Just as an update. They have all been out together now for several hours and no fighting anymore for a while. Although Celeste isnt really involved with the other 3 it is at least kind of peaceful.

I think first thing i have to do is get them all sleeping together because I am effectively reintroducing them each morning and seperating them each night which cant be helping. (this is because I have 2 unconnected hutches)

secondly I want to send them on a bonding holiday. :)
 
after reading through it really does seem to be the best option, i had to set aside a solid week of nothing to keep an eye on my four, and i understand you cannot do that.

Also, boys rarely go together without problem. My two did however, happily! and i know someone else who made two un related different aged boys into a pair but it is rare, and if two boys dont bond i wouldnt be suprised and wouldnt persue it to be perfectly honest with you
 
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