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New Stumpy update-anyone used Vivitonin?

R

Ryo_the_rat

Warren Scout
So we finally got the results of Stumpys EC blood test-negative! the vet said he has never even been exposed to it. so we are back at the start again. The vet said that the incontinence and weight loss could be being caused by lesions in his body(i honestly forgot where he said-i was there to collect two of my rats so my brain was trying to take in all the info :oops:) and has suggested using Vivitonin for 2 weeks and monitor him closely for improvement. I have been told if he improves then i can keep him on it longer but just wondered if anyone else had used this with their bunnies? i was also told to give it 30 minutes before eating-how on earth do you manage that with a bunny? :shock:

Anyone know what the vet might have meant about the lesions? and anyone had experience with using vivitonin in bunnies?
 
I have not had any experience of its use in Bunnies but my now at The Bridge dog was prescribed it when diagnosed with Senile Dementia.
It is a vascodilator.
 
Please remember that there is a delayed antibody response to E cuniculi infection so If your rabbit was tested at the onset of signs, the result can be negative... at the moment. the advice is to retest in 3 weeks. Vivitonin is a central and peripheral vasodilator so will open up blood vessels to the central nervous system, improving its bloodflow and therefore function. Sorry, i missed the earlier thread, what signs is your rabbit showing?
 
thanks could you link me to the post, I would want bloods, radiographs etc as well as the ec titre. how old is the rabbit?
 
Ok if the rabbit is loosing weight and still having problems I would want survey radiographs done. the tooth roots can be assessed and the thorax radiographs can be used to assess heart size or anything lurking in the chest that shouldnt be there. Abdominal radiographs may reveal sludge or kidney stones ans assess liver size etc. interestingly, kidneys can be evaluated using radiography also with soft tissue calcification around areas like the tongue and arteries showing up on a radiograph indicating kidney problems where blood tests havnt revealed any problems.
Goodluck, hope your bun is Ok
 
rodneyvet said:
Ok if the rabbit is loosing weight and still having problems I would want survey radiographs done. the tooth roots can be assessed and the thorax radiographs can be used to assess heart size or anything lurking in the chest that shouldnt be there. Abdominal radiographs may reveal sludge or kidney stones ans assess liver size etc. interestingly, kidneys can be evaluated using radiography also with soft tissue calcification around areas like the tongue and arteries showing up on a radiograph indicating kidney problems where blood tests havnt revealed any problems.
Goodluck, hope your bun is Ok
Click to expand...

Whilst a remit of diagnostcs may be useful is it not often the case that treatment options are limited for Rabbits :?

For example if Kidney stones were revealed there is not much that can be done is there :? Aside from pretty major surgery :?

I think that sometimes diagnosis based on responses to treatment are often more appropriate for Rabbits. Not because of the often significant cost implications to the owner (unless Bun is insured) but because with Rabbits the 'stress factor' always has to be taken into account. Putting a Bun through a whole remit of tests may give Vets/owners a clinical diagnosis but if as is often the case that diagnosis offers no more treatment options I am not certain if all the 'tests' are always in the Rabbit's best interests :?
 
Thats your opinion, mine is different. I prefer to know what I am treating. Why let a rabbit suffer the pain of kidney stones (which DO hurt) whilst trying to see response to therapys that will not work. it seems from the threads that this rabbit was sedated for the bloods (i think). in my practice i would have taken radiographs at the same time. I know my clients like me to get to the bottom of whats going on. I feel im wasting their money if i dont. Believe me i dont waste money on diagnostics or treatments that i dont feel are necessary. what follows on from that is that i like my clients to get value for money ... and a diagnosis. From what i can see this is a client who truely is concientious. It may be that the rabbit is improving now in which case a work up may not be required. but if its`s not, a work up should be offered even if it is not taken. Vets can get into a lot of trouble if they do not do this
 
rodneyvet said:
Thats your opinion, mine is different. I prefer to know what I am treating. Why let a rabbit suffer the pain of kidney stones (which DO hurt) whilst trying to see response to therapys that will not work. it seems from the threads that this rabbit was sedated for the bloods (i think). in my practice i would have taken radiographs at the same time. I know my clients like me to get to the bottom of whats going on. I feel im wasting their money if i dont. Believe me i dont waste money on diagnostics or treatments that i dont feel are necessary. what follows on from that is that i like my clients to get value for money ... and a diagnosis. From what i can see this is a client who truely is concientious. It may be that the rabbit is improving now in which case a work up may not be required. but if its`s not, a work up should be offered even if it is not taken. Vets can get into a lot of trouble if they do not do this
Click to expand...

I was actually asking a question hence the ':?' emoticons :)

I do hope you are not implying that my Vet would leave a Rabbit in pain as I can assure you she would not.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Whilst a remit of diagnostcs may be useful is it not often the case that treatment options are limited for Rabbits :?

For example if Kidney stones were revealed there is not much that can be done is there :? Aside from pretty major surgery :?

I think that sometimes diagnosis based on responses to treatment are often more appropriate for Rabbits. Not because of the often significant cost implications to the owner (unless Bun is insured) but because with Rabbits the 'stress factor' always has to be taken into account. Putting a Bun through a whole remit of tests may give Vets/owners a clinical diagnosis but if as is often the case that diagnosis offers no more treatment options I am not certain if all the 'tests' are always in the Rabbit's best interests :?
Click to expand...

Im not implying that any vet would leave an animal in pain. All I am saying is that if any animal had for example kidney stones, I would want to know about it. Also im sorry, i didnt understand that you were asking questions. i will give you my thoughts on them. firstly I think treatment options are increasing for these guys and as long as we are not putting them through too much and keep reminding ourselves of that, it can only be a good thing. For example, just a couple of days ago I did a thoracotomy on a rabbit to remove a chest tumour. Sadly the rabbit died but I have had successful cures with this procedure in rabbits. this last one sadly died but did not suffer as it had strong analgesics and was under anaesthesia. if it had not been operated on it would have needed to be put to sleep as it was suffering with its thymoma. With regards kidney stones, I have successfully removed kidneys from rabbits with stones in 1 kidney. these rabbits have gone on to lead normal lives. Finally i think that getting all the tests one feels need to be done in 1 go will not adversely affect the rabbit at all, especially if it is sedated. I get many referrals which get 1 anaesthetic incorperating xrays, a blood draw, ultrasound and anything else that is indicated for that rabbit. The reason for this is because i want as much info as i can get at one sitting. I think that waiting for response to treatment is potentially letting a disease process progress to a point of no return. as I stated my clients come to me to get as close to the diagnosis as possible whether it be a rabbit, a 30Kg python or a 6 gram anole. again im sorry i got the wrong end of the stick regarding those little smiles. Im not very forum proficient. I know what this one is for though:)
 
rodneyvet said:
Im not implying that any vet would leave an animal in pain. All I am saying is that if any animal had for example kidney stones, I would want to know about it. Also im sorry, i didnt understand that you were asking questions. i will give you my thoughts on them. firstly I think treatment options are increasing for these guys and as long as we are not putting them through too much and keep reminding ourselves of that, it can only be a good thing. For example, just a couple of days ago I did a thoracotomy on a rabbit to remove a chest tumour. Sadly the rabbit died but I have had successful cures with this procedure in rabbits. this last one sadly died but did not suffer as it had strong analgesics and was under anaesthesia. if it had not been operated on it would have needed to be put to sleep as it was suffering with its thymoma. With regards kidney stones, I have successfully removed kidneys from rabbits with stones in 1 kidney. these rabbits have gone on to lead normal lives. Finally i think that getting all the tests one feels need to be done in 1 go will not adversely affect the rabbit at all, especially if it is sedated. I get many referrals which get 1 anaesthetic incorperating xrays, a blood draw, ultrasound and anything else that is indicated for that rabbit. The reason for this is because i want as much info as i can get at one sitting. I think that waiting for response to treatment is potentially letting a disease process progress to a point of no return. as I stated my clients come to me to get as close to the diagnosis as possible whether it be a rabbit, a 30Kg python or a 6 gram anole. again im sorry i got the wrong end of the stick regarding those little smiles. Im not very forum proficient. I know what this one is for though:)
Click to expand...

:lol:

It might have helped if I had used '?'

!!!!!!!!!

I know my Vet has removed a Kidney from a Bun and he did really well.
I suppose I get a bit worried that in us owners desire to make a much loved Bun well and our Vet's desire to help that happen the boundaries on treatment may be pushed to exremes.
I do think its great that more is now possible in the treatment of Rabbits and its brill to have a Vet on here who is interested in them.
Bunny Savvy Vets are a rare breed !!

Thanks for the explanation

:wave:

ETA Sorry for hijaking your thread Ryo_the_Rat :oops:
 
Last edited:
Thankyou for all of your replies, they are greatly appreciated. Unfortunately Stumpy left us Tuesday evening :cry: i have wrote an obit for him in the rainbow bridge section but just wanted to thank everyone that offered advice.
 
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