EC-what is it *update* more good news and panacur question! :D

Im having a hard time finding out what EC is and wondered if anyone experienced over it could let me know the symptoms and how you can test for it?

I started a thread a few days ago about how to get weight on my bunny Stumpy, but i have been worrying myself sick over him. he was brought to the vets in september with suspected urine problems. he was given a course on baytril and around the same time i changed the litter i was using in their tray. for a while now i have believed that the reason he was having urine staining is because the litter i had used previously just wasnt very good and Stumpy has a habit of sitting in the litter tray. i now believe that his symptoms have been masked from me the last month or so because the new litter has been too good and isnt leaving him with as much staining.

He has lost ALOT of weight. i weighed him this evening and he only weighs around 800g around august time i had weighed him to give him mite treatment and he was 1.4kg then so im really worried about him. im ringing vets first thing in the morning to get him booked in but just wondered what to expect. what could his symptoms be linked to? EC has been mentioned to me before and was mentioned to me by the vet when i brought him in september so im wondering how they can test for this? is there anything else i could ask them to test him for?

I feel so awful, i was just so sure that he was ok. he is eating fine, comes running for food just like the others. unfortunately its hard to know how much hes drinking as he has always lived with another bunny and now lives with another three. he isnt acting any differently but i just know there is something wrong. my baby is so thin

any advice is really appreciated. sorry for starting a new thread about this but as the other was asking for advice on how to put weight on and this is about illnesses i thought it my best chance to get some advice.

http://www.radil.missouri.edu/info/dora/RABBPAGE/par.htm#II.

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

http://www.intervet.co.uk/products_public/panacur_rabbit/010_overview.asp

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo10.html

you will need to take him to the vet as such a big weight loss is worrying. It could be related to EC which they would treat with panacur paste and he will proably have to have repeated treatement every 3-4 months to keep it at bay but you need a vet to make a diagnosis. They may give you the panacur paste without testing for EC. If they do test for it is usually done by two blood tests over a period of time as many buns are exposed to EC & will therefore test positive but the EC may not be active & the the underlying cause of the problem.

Thankyou both so much for your replies. i am so worried sick about my little guy right now im working my way through the links but had another question. Id say all in all he has had this problem for around 3 months now-other then losing the weight nothing else appears to have worsened with him and as i say he is still eating fine and hopping around like normal. he follows you around the room when you are in there and stands up if he thinks you might have something for him :lol:he is completely himself apart from the weight loss. So im wondering, if it was EC or kidney failure or something along those lines, wouldnt he be much worse after 3 months without proper treatment? im not sure at all myself and obviously will be pointing this out to the vet but just wondered what you all thought.

If i ask them to do a blood test, can they test for a range of things at the same time for me? again i know this is something to ask the vet but i think my head will explode from all the questions i have running around in there if i dont ask some of them now :?

Just a quick update, i have an appointment for the vets at 11am tomorrow morning but the best news of all is that my bunny expert vet hasnt gone on maternity leave yet the wierd thing is that this is her last week of work, lets hope thats a good sign for Stumpy. another thing i was worrying about is that whatever vet i saw wouldnt be as good, so thats one less worry for me. i did ask if they had his weight down from september but the last weight they have is from last July :? when he was 1.5kg. OH thinks he may have been around 1.2kg when he was weighed at the vets(he has a much better memory then me) but thats still a good 400g's he has lost in a couple of months. i shall update more after his appointment tomorrow.

Stumpy has been left at the vets the vet was concerned about the weight loss so said the best thing would be to leave him there so they can try and get a blood and urine sample to do a range of tests on. i think she was a bit puzzled over it because of how he is still acting normally but she said that kidney failure can slowly come on over time so it cant be ruled out anyway im back to collect him this afternoon and i *think* they said they would have the results because i *think* it is all being done inhouse but to be honest i was that worried about him and my ratties that were brought along too,i didnt think to confirm it.

Will update when im back with him.

hope he'll be ok.

could this be a thyroid problem? My cat had an over active thyroid and ate normally, if anything more hungry than usual, we thought she had worms. Her weight dropped from a little over weight to anorexic looking in a few months. her behaviour was normal other than her constant hunger but constant weight loss.

Have you threated him with panacur already? Because the most innocent and logical conclusion would be worms offcourse... But you might have mentioned that previously...

Anyway sending lots of healing vibes...

also i think he would be drinking an excessive amount of water if he had kidney failure. My cat Phoebe died from this last christmas. All she would do is drink water, would not eat and was so thin she was emaciated, she had already dropped in weight from her thyroid problem i mentioned in the above post but got even thinner. Also he may smell strange if kidney failure from the poison getting into his blood. I very much hope this is not what is wrong with your bun, and cats and buns are different, but i think he would be drinking but not eating if was kidney failure. Apparantly is like having the worst hangover ever but all the time.

Thankyou for the replies i have good news They done his blood work all in house and it all came back normal-so no kidney failure! They are sending his blood off to be tested for EC though and should have the results end of week. the vet said he would ring as soon as he has them(think he sensed my worry :lol: ) they couldnt do a urine sample because his bladder was empty when they had him under-so typical. but they have said if the test for EC comes back normal they will have him in again to try for a sample. im just soooo glad the results were normal, you wouldnt believe how i have worried myself. i know the worry isnt completely over yet as we still arent sure what is causing the weight loss but its something!

Stumpy was tierd when we got him home bless him. One of the things the vet said was "he hasnt stopped eating!" :lol: when he got back he had a little hop around and then he went and sat and fell asleep....in the litter tray :roll: :lol:

Clicquot: he hasnt been treated with panacur yet but i do think that will be the next step to be honest. vets didnt mention worms but thats probably because he has lost weight at the same time as having the urine staining and us finding the water going quicker out the bowl. i shall mention it though when i get the results, thanks.

Captainsfluff: im not sure what the symptoms are for thyroid problems in rabbits, i shall have a search and see if i find anything. but as mentioned, i think because the weight loss has come at the same time as the urine staining etc this is why they are all being added together as symptoms. of course that might not be the case and i think other possibilities will need to be explored if his EC blood test come back normal and his urine test. i guess we shall have to wait and see. i am sorry to hear about your kittie

Thanks again everyone, will keep everyone posted with results etc

In that case, I would start giving the panacur right away actually...it doesn't harm them since it isn't absorbed in the intestin and EC is also a parasite, as are worms...

It would be logical if there is some kind of parasite, not neccesarily EC, but another one which has an effect on his bladder..there are so many possibilities, but luckily practically all of them can be treathed with panacur.

Hope he's feeling better soon.

Unfortunately i had a phonecall from the vets telling me that the guys at the lab said the blood was no good for testing :? no idea why but he now has to be brought back in on monday morning to have more blood taken. im really annoyed about this because poor Stumpy was really wobbly after being put under yesterday but i guess there isnt much i can do about. apparently the vet was annoyed too for the same reasons. so monday more tests and hopefully it wont take too long to get the results. i may ask them to try getting a urine sample at the same time as i would rather him not have to be put under again if the tests come back normal but il see what they think. will update more when i know :roll:

Clicquot said:

In that case, I would start giving the panacur right away actually...it doesn't harm them since it isn't absorbed in the intestin and EC is also a parasite, as are worms...

It would be logical if there is some kind of parasite, not neccesarily EC, but another one which has an effect on his bladder..there are so many possibilities, but luckily practically all of them can be treathed with panacur.

Hope he's feeling better soon.

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Thanks for that. i thought the same thing about starting him on panacur and said so to the nurse today but when she rang back she said the vet said not to until we know its that we are dealing with :? i would just start him on it anyway but with him now needing more blood taken im not sure if starting treatment would effect the results. its all very frustrating, i thought by the end of the week we would be a little closer to knowing what is going on :?

Am very gald to hear his kidneys are in good order! Wish him luck with his test results

I just thought i would update because i weighed Stumpy today and he has gained around 200g! he now weighs around the 1kg mark(im having to weigh him by holding him and stepping on "human" scales and then stepping on again and subtracting so obviously its not an exact. will try using the kitchen scales-is it best to put him in a carrier or something to do that?) anyway i was very excited to see he had gained so much weight-he has been getting a spoon of porridge a day and banana every 2-3 days along with lots of hay and other veg so it seems to be working!

He also looks cleaner down below, he is nice and dry rather then wet the way he always was but im wondering if that is because he isnt using the cage as much or something? i have a little bed on top of the food boxes for him(hes the only one that goes up there) so i think hes using that alot.

He is in for more blood to be taken tomorrow so will update when i know more. However i have decided im going to start treating him with panacur tomorrow no matter what the vet says because its my understanding that it cant do any harm and i would rather start treatment asap then wait a few days and find out i need to do it anyway. i know it is 1 graduation per 2.5kg body weight but obviously Stumpy doesnt weigh anywhere near this amount. anyone know how to figure it out?