Fear of bonding

Hello,

I have attempted to bond my 1 year old speyed female and 4 month old neutered male. They've been living separately for a while now but i eventually decided to attempt to bond them this weekend. I've moved both their cages down to our living room (completely neutral area for both) and fenced off an area around both their cages with a puppy pen.

I let them out at the same time and sat with them but within a few seconds Minnie (the female) lunged at George and bit his neck. I know I shouldn't have but i kept picking George up (he's only small) to cuddle him then putting him back down. It really didn't work out because Minnie kept going for him. She was grunting and acting really aggressive so i put them back in separate cages immediately.

I left them downstairs over night so they could see each other all day/night and have tried again this evening. Minnie doesn't even come and sniff him out she just immediately lunges for his neck area. It's not just playfull fur pulling it looks like full on biting, to be honest I don't really give them much time before I pull George away because i'm worried Minnie will hurt him.

I probably should just leave them alone without sitting right next to them ready to pull one away but i'm too scared! how can you tell if its normal or if its full on aggression? should I just stick out the slow bonding method introducing them for a few minutes a night or should I wait for my large cage to be delivered and do the intense way? Obviously I can't leave them out together so I let them out separately in their enclosed area - do you think this will make things worse as they will both try to make it their territory?

Help i'm completely lost as to what I should/shouldn't be doing! It's driving me crazy! sorry for the long post....help appreciated!

I don't have any experience on bonding although Kiki and Hiro will go through their own bonding soon (they were neutered last week) and I have similar worries.

How long has it been since her spay? It could be that she has some hormones left if it's less than 6 weeks ago. In which case I would wait longer. (Also you could try switching their homes to get them used to each others smells)

I would stick her in a long run in the garden if you can and fingers-crossed get rid of some energy. I would then put her in a small area with Mr Bunny somewhere again completely different like the bathroom. Wear some thick gloves and seperate them again if she gets over agressive, you can expect some fur pulling and mounting, but don't let it go on if she's getting too nasty and you think its more than just nipping. JRN1310 may be able to help too as she has some expertise x

Are you trying to bond using there existing cages?

Ideally everything needs to be "neutral" no existing cage, toys, bedding - nothing.

All new.

With mine, i set up a pen, put a sheet on floor to protect carpet, scatter some food, hay and veg, and then get OH to help me put them both in.

I then leave them to it, fur pulling, mounting and chasing are common, however biting shouldnt be allowed. If things get too much, clap or bang loudly to stop them or even spray water on to them.

During this process avoid contact, and dont separate, unless really needed. Be there to observe 72hours at least.

Why don't you let the male run in the females cage for a bit and the female in the males becuase it gets them used to each others smell again so it's not quite a shock.

Thats what I did when I was breeding my bunners. They lunged at each other so I took them away then let Dippy run in Fluffballs to get used to her smell again It worked.

They are just in a puppy pen - their cages are in the same room but thei doors are shut so they can't get in. I thought i'd keep the cages near so they coudl get used to each others smell.

Just let them out in the pen together again and Minnie lunged at George and properly locked her teeth in, I literally had to tear George away. A lot of fur was pulled out. This certainly wasn't normal fur pulling, this was biting. Minnie was grunting too with her ears pinned back which I believe is a sign of aggression.

I just don't understand because the area is completely neutral. I've tried letting them in each others cages but Minnie is extremely terratorial and when George jumped in she ran in after him and attacked him. Maybe I should let them do it whe the other is not around.

I know its bad to give up after 24 hours but its really upsetting to see Minnie attack such a friendly affectionate bun, George is so docile! She is very aggressive. She was speyed about 6 months ago and has always been on her own. Do you think she might never get on with another bun? I'm too squeemish to watch them fight it out and wish I coudl give them away and let someone bond them for me!! It's scary!!

Why not see if there is a rescue somewhere near you that can help? Even if they only 'start them off' for the first couple of hours, it will be totally neutral territory and will get over that initial hurdle of not being sure whether to intervene or not. It's always a tricky one...when I bonded my boss' rabbits in the summer I sat in the run with them and every time the female lunged at the male I gently held onto her back and pushed her down to the ground...within an hour she was binkying around the run happy as larry that she had a friend :roll:

But I do also agree with the others, the whole area needs to be neutral, if you let them out of their cages they may still view the area in front as 'theirs', it needs to be totally separate from their cages.

Yes maybe I will leave it for now. I think i will need to take their cages away. Maybe i'll wait until their new cage arrives which will be completely neurtal so I can spend a weekend with them in a pen (without their cages in sight) and put them in a neutral cage when i'm satisfied they are bonded. Do you know of anywhere in the Surrey area that might elp me bond? Do you have to have got your bun from their rescue for them to help you out? Minnie is quite a madam so I think it will be a struggle for anyone in any circumstance!

Whereabouts in Surrey are you? I'm sure they're busy bonding their own buns but some might be able to help out in return for a donation - might be worth a go Have a look on the main www.rabbitrehome.org.uk/centres.asp to see if there is one listed near to you.

The way I did it with my boss' buns was a bit unorthodox but they had tried to bond them previously and not managed because she was so aggressive which is why I did it a bit differently!

I'm in Croydon. Thanks for your advice I will have a look.

I might try them in a bathroom at the weekend and if not then i'll seek help elsewhere!

Natsanth said:

Are you trying to bond using there existing cages?

Ideally everything needs to be "neutral" no existing cage, toys, bedding - nothing.

All new.

With mine, i set up a pen, put a sheet on floor to protect carpet, scatter some food, hay and veg, and then get OH to help me put them both in.

I then leave them to it, fur pulling, mounting and chasing are common, however biting shouldnt be allowed. If things get too much, clap or bang loudly to stop them or even spray water on to them.

During this process avoid contact, and dont separate, unless really needed. Be there to observe 72hours at least.

Click to expand...

Can i ask as ive seen this mentioned a few times. that to stay with them for at least 72hrs. What do you do when you have to go to bed? are they left together or split?

When I've done it in the past I've always chosen a time when I can be at home for a solid weekend and ideally a fri/mon as well. to start with I go to the loo, grab a cup of tea and a book and literally stay in the same room for the first few hours, then slowly start backing off and doing other things but always keeping nearby and keeping an ear out. For the first couple of nights I leave them together but sleep in the same room, so that I wake up if there are any major scuffles - in most cases they will have done most of the bickering early in the day and it eases off into the evening so I've always been happy to do that. Over the next couple of days I've just stayed at home and kept an ear out and within ability to rush to them if necessary, but not necessarily been with them all the time. Of course how well you can do this does depend on how the particular bond is working, but I think you can usually tell early on if it's going to be serious fighting or just a few bonding bickers.

cazh said:

Yes maybe I will leave it for now. I think i will need to take their cages away. Maybe i'll wait until their new cage arrives which will be completely neurtal so I can spend a weekend with them in a pen (without their cages in sight) and put them in a neutral cage when i'm satisfied they are bonded. Do you know of anywhere in the Surrey area that might elp me bond? Do you have to have got your bun from their rescue for them to help you out? Minnie is quite a madam so I think it will be a struggle for anyone in any circumstance!

Click to expand...

:wave:

Hopper said:

Can i ask as ive seen this mentioned a few times. that to stay with them for at least 72hrs. What do you do when you have to go to bed? are they left together or split?

Click to expand...

You do not need to watch them every minute of the day or night, it is a means of being about so that you can intervene if required.

I bond buns most weekends and I always start on a Friday night, that way I have plenty of time to get them settled, generally they are ok to go back to their home on a Sunday night. I openly admit I do not watch them every minute of the day but there is always someone about to temporaly separate them for a few seconds if required. I use a plastic base as they are noisy in them and I can easily hear if they kick off together.

On the odd occasion I will sleep on the sofa if buns are not settled enough for me to go to bed.

when bonding please give yourself plenty of time where you have no planned time you need to leave them home alone, but do not split them up once you have started. If I need to separate them due to fighting I do this for 10 seconds only and no more.

jrn1310 said:

:wave:

Click to expand...

I was going to say "this week in twickenham you are bonding.........."

I wouldn't try them together again for a little bit. It didn't go well the first time, they are probably very annoyed with each other and like humans need a bit of space to calm down again.

ecudc said:

I was going to say "this week in twickenham you are bonding.........."

I wouldn't try them together again for a little bit. It didn't go well the first time, they are probably very annoyed with each other and like humans need a bit of space to calm down again.

Click to expand...

I think I will let them calm down for a bit first... I was so proud of myself as well, I totally cleared our living room so they had a nice space to bond and had set aside the whole weekend, but it was such a disaster I've had to take them back to their separate rooms. I've literally read every single bonding post there is on the forum so I was certain I knew what I was doing... but the full on teeth locking was just too scary to perservere with!! They seem so much happier now they are on their own, binkying all over the place where as when they were in he same room hey just gave each other evils through the bars :lol:

Hopper said:

Can i ask as ive seen this mentioned a few times. that to stay with them for at least 72hrs. What do you do when you have to go to bed? are they left together or split?

Click to expand...

Together, my OH sleeps on the sofa next to them for 3days! lol :lol: