bonding - what now

Hi all

The owners of our new rabbit brought him round 2 hrs ago. We are bonding him with our doe. He is lovely and very placid so we were confident they would be fine being introduced which they were. So we moved them both onto the patio where Lavenders hutch/run is and she chased him a little but he mostly just laid down submissively which seemed to be the right thing to do as she relaxed. They have now both gone into her enclosure and have been there about 30 minutes, he is laying there letting her groom him and he has not moved even when she goes off to graze her hay. She is obvioulsy fine with him being in her territory and seems very happy. So we are just supervising from the patio door.

Anyway, we have another temporary hutch set up as we didn't expect to have them together on her patio territory so early, let alone her getting him to come in her hutch/run.

But the thing is, he hasn't eaten anything since he got here and i don't know if he has pooed. He is used to lots of treat food and had had treats in his carrier on the way here, so may just not be hungry. The previous owners were surprised at the normal amount of poo in Lavenders litter tray and said he never does that much poo. So maybe more hay will help. He doesn't look underweight or anything.

But could he be upset and decide not to eat or poo? Is the submissive thing a good thing or could it be signs of stress? To be honest he didn't seem scared at all when he got here and just wanted affection and he did have a play but has just been very still and quiet in the enclosure.

My main question is, do i just leave them to it now? I don't want to seperate them if these behaviours mean they have instantly bonded. But is it a problem that he hasn't groomed her back or that he isn't exploring the run or hutch like he did the garden? Is he missing the human interaction as we have come in? Lavender is definitely more into rabbits than humans, but he has been on his own longer than she has. Could he be upset that we have come inside? Earlier he run in the house a couple of times and straight up to the kids for cuddles. Our Lavender would never choose to come in.

Should i make a special effort later to try and get some food in him. He doesn't seem interested in hay and if i put anything else down in front of her, she will nick it, so shall i try and get him to come out on his own and hand feed him a bit later?

Usually he is free range on their lawn during the day and then goes in their shed at night where he has plenty of nuggets, fruit veg and treats. He has dental problems and they have been having his teeth clipped every month. Apparently a tooth fell out last time they were clipped. I know my vets don't approve of tooth clipping and do burring instead as i read it on their website last night after finding out the rabbit we agreed to take had dental problems. so we definitely want to get him chewing hay and grazing regularly. We want to get him checked out and find out exactly what the dental problems are and what care he is going to need. Would it be a good idea to take him to the vets tomorrow? Going by how things are looking, we should be able to take her with him.

Many thanks
Lynsey

Are they both neutered? Sorry if you have said this.

Hiya,

Sounds like you're doing the right thing keeping them together. Provided there's no harm coming to either of them I'd keep them together as they're making good progress. It was "her" patch so this was why she was in dominance mode. Don't worry about grooming, she is presenting herself as the heirarchy or the boss of the couple.

I would still keep an eye on them and would offer him some food too. Maybe stick it right next to them, even if she has most of it. What food was he on before? It's a good idea for now to offer that to him.

He probably realises he's in her space and everything smells of her. He may be a little cautious to nose around everywhere knowing it's her home. You could also try making it less of her space and put things that belong/smell of him in there? i.e. get a small teatowel and put some of his loose fur on it and put it in her space?

If he doesn't seem to be eating/pooing tomorrow I would get him to the vets in case x

Have they both been neutered?

Hi

They have both been done. She came to us in the summer with her partner who was neutered and then we had her done when he died to make it easier to introduce a new rabbit. The new male was neutered some time in the summer.

I am worried about him as he seems more down in the dumps. Maybe he is just getting used to the change, but i don't know enough about his dental problems yet. We got them both out and put pellets and greens in the kitchen for him to come and get (we know Lavender wont come in the house). He came in but would not touch the food and when i offered him some, he pulled away and we wondered if he was in pain. So we decided to bring him in the lounge and syringe feed him some water as i don't think he had had anything since coming. It was hard to get it in his mouth initially but then he lapped it up. we moved onto soggy pellets and then normal pellets. If my husband held him and put his hand under his chin, i was able to open his mouth and get the food in and would sometimes have to stimulate his mouth with the food to get him chewing, but then he is chewing and swallowing. But he spat out the greens and grass I picked too. He simply would not help himself though. I am pleased he has had something and he is now back in with lavender in the upstairs hutch.

I have tried phoning the woman who i took him from and left a message asking if this is completely new of if he has had problems with food earlier today or any other day although when i asked about food they said he eats constantly. She said his dental problems never cause him problems as long as his teeth have been clipped. She said she left it 5 weeks once and he stopped eating, but he only had it done recently. She said a tooth fell out recently but did not affect him. She brought round a big loaf of hard baked bread for him to eat which she gives him to grind down teeth. I did not give it to him, but surely if he usually eats this sort of thing then he must be able to usually chew?

Once i had him in a position where i could lift his cheek up and put food in his mouth, he did not move his head or indicate he was in pain. So i don't know why he was orininally pulling away or why he hasn't been helping himself. i am no expert but the front teeth don't look too bad and you can see they have been clipped. Could he have lost his appetite because of the move, even though they have bonded?

Although he is passive, i don't think he is lethargic in a unwell way. He likes being handled but he is strong. When i picked him up to stop him running back outside when i wanted to feed him, he was really trying to get away for a couple of seconds. also when i put him back in he jumped back in. he just then decided to just sit there rather than mooch about.

Do you think i should take him out again tonight and give him some food and water if he doesn't seem to be helping himself still? i want to make sure his gut is working as my other rabbit died quickly when he lost his appetite.

We are going to phone the vets first thing. It just seems strange that although he has dental problems, he has been fine for them but wont eat or drink for himself since coming here. If the bonding went badly, i could understand.

Lynsey

From what you have said... you only got him today. he is probably very confused as he is in a new home, around different people and now has been introduced to another bunny :? He is probably sitting still in the cage as he knows he is in her space, you really should bond on neutral grounds to prevent this :? However, if things are going ok and theres no fighting etc id leave it as it is but keep a close eye on them.

I would definately get him to the vets for a check up regarding his teeth. We recently took a dental bunny on and the owners said he had recently had his teeth done, when we got him to the vets he had to have an emergency dental... so a visit to the vets to check would be best just to be on the safe side. Do you know the people you got him from?

I guess you wont know if hes toileting as you have them both together, so wont be able to tell. I hope it all worksd out Keep us updated xXx

Good idea to take him too the vets tomorrow, although it could be just new surrondings that may be spooking him out a little. I wouldn't fuss over him too much tonight although keep an eye on him if you can, or an ear out if the girly bun decides to make trouble (or the other way around). I would continue offering him foods you've been successul on. If he's had crusts/hard bread before try a little of that as a tester. As long as he's eating a little and drinking you should be OK for tonight, but yeah, get him checked in tomorrow. x

Hi

We did bond on neutral ground but they were fine straight away so it made no sense to seperate again. They were both lonely after losing partners. So we then took them to the patio where she runs about during the day and where her hutch/run is and she chased him for about a minute which he accepted and then laid down and let her poke him a bit and then she was grooming him. The next thing, they have gone into her run and are all cuddled up! Couldn't believe our luck. So before leaving them completely to it, we showed him how to get up the ramp to the bedding area as the ultimate test and they were fine, all loved up. I have had people i trust on stand by with advice and information and they agreed i should press on and let them be together as we were lucky enough to have rabbits bond instantly.

I am just worried about him not eating. we only found out last night that he has dental problems though the owners say that as long as they clip every month (our vet will likely burr)he has had no problems. But we are worried he has now developed a problem with his mouth because of his teeth because he is not helping himself to food and drink. But perhaps he does just feel he should not be helping himself as she is the boss! She is very loving towards him though so hopefully he will get more confident.

He is used to treats, so maybe is just full up, but i don't want to risk him not eating overnight, so i have managed to get him to eat a bit by placing food behind his front teeth and syringing some water for him to lap up. Will see what vet says.

How did the vets go? I just had a thought that softer foods might be easier on his teeth rather than crunchy foods. x

While bonding it can also help to provide duplicate food and water bowls (dental buns often find a bowl easier than a bottle), so that if a bun is being dominant over food, the other one can still eat and drink. The hard bread won't be any good for him and it will do nothing whatsoever to help grind his teeth down, it needs to be hay/grass to do that properly so you needn't worry about that - even gnaw blocks don't help because they only target the front teeth that you can see, not the molars right at the back of his mouth.

Do keep a very close eye on him though as it's vital that he does eat and drink, their guts can 'shut down' very quickly if they don't eat so try and give him lots of tempting options but without bothering him too much as he is probably nervous and trying to settle too. I know you said they're ok in her place, but maybe if you put them into neutral territory it would help him to settle, he might be 'on edge' because he knows he's in her patch?