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The 5 freedoms

T

taylor v 109

Mama Doe
Hi, im trying to find the things listed about rabbits cages by the RSPCA. Im in talks with Pets at Home in blackheath and i was talking to them about the sizes if the cages and i was telling him about the rabbit has to be able to hop 3 times and to be able to stand on his back legs without touching the roof and so forth. Does any one know of any were i can find this as they want to tell the head office about it. I have the 5 freedoms and have sent that to them. val
 
The 5 Freedoms.

Hiya Val:wave:long time no post:lol:have you tried the RSPCA website (repca.org.uk) THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME INFO ON THERE:)
 
beat me to it

post ten here

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=142553&highlight=2007+animal

Edit:

this one is much more specific and gives sizes

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/farmed/othersps/rabbits/pb0080/rabcode.htm#8 (interesteing, just noticed this is for farmed rabbits, not nice I know, but they seem to have more rules and restractions than a pet rabbit!!)

it does mention the area a rabbit should have access to per rabbit, whilst in the hutch, remember this needs to be doubled as rabbits should be kept in pairs. also note, there is no set height requirement which is a bit pants!! (ah found it, Accommodation for rabbits over 12 weeks of age should be not less than 45 cm high, or of sufficient height to allow rabbits to sit upright with ears fully erect. ) this should be made clearer I think, that or is very ambiguous. It should state "which ever is highest" afterwards
 
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what you need is a copy of the animal welfare cact whcih does state this however oddly i cant find a link at moment...thats what you need though x
 
The RSPCA don't seem to be recommending specific sizes at the moment - their leaflet here: http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Blo...here=1154077759040&blobheader=application/pdf talks about being able to lie fully stretched out in any direction, take a sequence of hops, turn around easily and sit up on their hind legs without their ears touching the roof.

While I think it's useful to have this sort of guide, I still think that giving an actual minimum size is much more helpful to people to understand exactly what it is they are supposed to do. The RWA now use a minimum size of 6*2*2 and PAH should know this already as the head office have been working with the RWA on hutches for some time now!
 
AlisonA said:
The RSPCA don't seem to be recommending specific sizes at the moment - their leaflet here: http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Blo...here=1154077759040&blobheader=application/pdf talks about being able to lie fully stretched out in any direction, take a sequence of hops, turn around easily and sit up on their hind legs without their ears touching the roof.

While I think it's useful to have this sort of guide, I still think that giving an actual minimum size is much more helpful to people to understand exactly what it is they are supposed to do. The RWA now use a minimum size of 6*2*2 and PAH should know this already as the head office have been working with the RWA on hutches for some time now!
Click to expand...

the problem withgiving a hutch size is you need to differentiate between breeds. for example 2 nethies would be perfectly happy in a 5ft thutch provided they have a large run to have access to.and a dutch rabbit pair would probly be ok in a 6x2x2ft hutch witth run... yet a giant pair or french lops are probly more suited to a shed set up.... it depends on rabbit full grown size....
i agree tho that more specifications need to be made.. at same token a 4ft hutch which has no divider within a large enclosure which two small buns hadd permenatn access to would be fine as a base but not on its own. definatly need more difinitive guidelines though x
 
PAH are re-ranging hutches this year and are doing away with the less suitable hutches. I complained about a couple of hutches that came into store and had a good long chat with the buyer who seemed very positive about the changes they were making.

Watch this space, I guess.
 
Lspacehopper said:
PAH are re-ranging hutches this year and are doing away with the less suitable hutches. I complained about a couple of hutches that came into store and had a good long chat with the buyer who seemed very positive about the changes they were making.

Watch this space, I guess.
Click to expand...

the PAH in braintree the other day had lavendar lodges in store and thistle halls but nothing else,all th elittle ones had gone!:)
 
TBH i don't think you can stop places selling small cages. I'm an animal rights activist so i do know a bit on stopping shops selling certain items. Shops tend to get away wth it by saying it's for a baby bun and they advise whoever's buying it to buy a larger one when the bunny grows.

This obviously isn't good enough but the law doesn't state that this is illegal unfortunately :(

Wilkinsons were recently selling a cage which was 57cmX30cmX46.5cm for a rat!! They claimed it would be good for two rats but the way they got around selling it as a rat cage was to say it was good for baby rats and not for adults rats. Obviously people who didn't knw much about rats wouldn't know that this was far far too small even for baby rats.

Anyway my point is it will be very difficult to get them to stop selling small cages as PAH just don't care about their animals.
 
To be fair to PAH, they have dropped the smallest hutches some time ago and have a range of substantially bigger and better hutches than some of the smaller independent pet shops. There's a dreadful pet shop near me which sells 'rabbit hutches' I wouldn't put a hamster in.
 
oh thats a step in the right direction then :)

Now they just need to learn how to look after animals lmao.

Do you think that they will drop the other small hutches too? Maybe i should get them to stop putting rats on sawdust. :cry:
 
to be honest I am finding people are getting big hutches now instead of small ones so maybe the publicity is working slowly
 
vegan_household said:
oh thats a step in the right direction then :)

Now they just need to learn how to look after animals lmao.

Do you think that they will drop the other small hutches too? Maybe i should get them to stop putting rats on sawdust. :cry:
Click to expand...

We do look after the animals.

Which store is it putting rats on woodshavings? Policy for a long time has been to use carefresh or biocatlet so I'm interested to know which store you have an issue with.

I'm a Manager and can take the matter further for you :)
 
Yes, I do genuinely suspect that PAH has something to do with the general improvement in the public, most people probably go to PAH rather than another pet shop to get food, supplies etc and to look for pets. At our local one the forecourt is strewn with 6ft hutches so it must be starting to slip into people's subconscious that this is normal sized accommodation for bunnies.
 
Lspacehopper said:
We do look after the animals.

Which store is it putting rats on woodshavings? Policy for a long time has been to use carefresh or biocatlet so I'm interested to know which store you have an issue with.

I'm a Manager and can take the matter further for you :)
Click to expand...

Oh really? I'm talking about the ones at Teesside Park and Coulby Newham in Middlesbrough. Around here PAH is notorious for being a bad pet shop :shock: I'm really sorry if i insulted you, i just figured all the PAH's were bad.

The ones around here keep rabbits and guinea pigs in the same pens, the staff don't even know how to sex or handle any of the animals. Alot of the animals get roundworm especially the guinea pigs and all the animals are kept on sawdust. They also sell rats on their own instead of in a pair and do not advise the customers to buy a friend for the rat. Altogether around here PAH is not a nice place for the animals.
 
vegan_household said:
Oh really? I'm talking about the ones at Teesside Park and Coulby Newham in Middlesbrough. Around here PAH is notorious for being a bad pet shop :shock: I'm really sorry if i insulted you, i just figured all the PAH's were bad.

The ones around here keep rabbits and guinea pigs in the same pens, the staff don't even know how to sex or handle any of the animals. Alot of the animals get roundworm especially the guinea pigs and all the animals are kept on sawdust. They also sell rats on their own instead of in a pair and do not advise the customers to buy a friend for the rat. Altogether around here PAH is not a nice place for the animals.
Click to expand...


Have you passed on your concerns to Head Office? If not, can I ask that you do so. They do take the complaints seriously and if you feel things still don't improve then keep up the momentum.

I'm not sure who the Pet care manager for that area is, but I'll make a few enquiries.
 
Lspacehopper said:
Have you passed on your concerns to Head Office? If not, can I ask that you do so. They do take the complaints seriously and if you feel things still don't improve then keep up the momentum.

I'm not sure who the Pet care manager for that area is, but I'll make a few enquiries.
Click to expand...

I will thankyou. My O/H did intervene once when a member of staff was selling a lone rat to a customer who had no other rats. The member of staff didn't mention anything to do with getting them in pairs and also advised her to put it on sawdust! :shock:

But anyway i'll stop posting about this as this thread is about hutches :)

Thanks for the advice. I will make a complaint. :)
 
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