looking after teeth

Hi all

After little clovers mouth problems, i want to ensure we look after our rabbits teeth.

Lavender hasn't been interested in any willow balls, sticks or toys yet. She gnawed a little bit of a willow ball to get to some stash inside once, but thats about it. She has only pulled off a few small bits of willow screening off the fence.

The vet told me that teeth can grow bad in a couple of weeks (he may well be lying as we complained that they couldn't have cheked Clovers teeth properly when we took him in). So i don't want to leave it until anytime we are at the vets. Any advice to get her gnawing more? She would eat carrot all day, but i hear you shouldn't give carrot much, so i want something she can gnaw at often. I have seen all these dried snacks that encourage gnawing, but i am not sure if it is goof to give them too much of that sort of food if i want to encourage lots of hay eating.

Also, how can i ensure that the vet is checking the teeth properly? I am guessing that when Clover was ill, they must have found it easy to have a good look in his mouth and done a more thorough check than when we brought him in for his 'MOT' after we got him. How do vets usually do a really good teeth check? so i can ensure they do in furture.

Finally, i want to ensure i am not discouraging her from eating hay by letting her have too much grass. I want her to have as much free time on the lawn as possible. How much access to grass should they have each day?

thanks
Lynsey

:wave: sadly if a vet doesnt get the right side as poor bif my girlie had happen to her once then it might...but i fear that it can happen that fast....bif has also done that once too and this time shes gone 4 months without a dental despite me having on her on a very high hay diet...

which hay is your bunster most fond of? bif is now a timothy hay girl..she loves the oxbow one by the bale from hay experts..and the one from the dust free hay company but it was too pricey with two normal buns and two frenhcies..one of which is massive!:lol:

did the vet use an otoscope? and did he consider using a gag to see better or look at them under a GA?
bifs usually done under a gA cos of her nerves..but one vet does it by just holding her..putting the mouth gag in and burring her teeth like that..its how he also checks her teeth. i hated this method but cos she gets gi stasis so often its more stressful but at not as bad as ga is on her kidneys etc as shes got a very far set back lower jaw....only just been realised cos she was awake but kinda doepy where she had gi stasis which got cured very quickly once teeth were done!

i am presuming youre talking about molar teeth right?:lol:

willow balls carrots etc dont do naything to molar teeth...lots of broad flat leaved things esp timmy hay the greener one mine prefer whereas some prefer the yellow coarse one.
dried grass is ok but not as good as hay..whilst i would have thought gras soutside would have helped too contribute to the chewing and grinding but obv too much makes em poorly with thier tums etc if their not used to it.

as for inscisors..they grow sooooo fast..eventually having them removed is a must...like my old dwarf lop did .....after breaking one tooth when her water bootle holder coolapsed and the metal spout hit her in the mouth and knocked her tooth nearly out and broke it off..now buns have water bowls!

My vet has looked at my bunnies teeth through an otoscope while they were awake to get a general idea about teeth but if we've suspected a problem they have had a GA for a more thorough examination.

Really hay is the most important thing to keep teeth in good shape. Sometimes it's a case of finding out which hay they really like. There are alot of online hay suppliers, not sure but some will send you sample packs of different ones for you to try too.

Our buns just get hay in bales (horsey hay) and they love it the more stalky it is. I think that is important too for wearing the teeth if the hay is stalky and in long strands.

Our buns diet I would have thought is total 70% hay (others i think will have even higher hay and less pellets x) then some pellets in the morning (which are usually all eaten within the hour!) and spring greens in the evening. Hay is given in copious amounts morning and evening!

There are some bunnies on here though where they've had a good diet all their lives but have still developed tooth probs so they can develop no matter what you do but you can certainly help with a good diet.

To be honest I'm not sure on a recommendedtime period on grass :? some of mine are out on grass for a few hours each day but then i do put some hay out in the run with them. I'd be interested o hear if grass has the same wearing action on teeth as hay.

I honestly cant think of any treats that may help with teeth and like you say any that are quite high in proteins will likely put her off eating hay in favour of them which wont help.

Sorry I dont know if I've been much help!! I'll be interested to see what others say as I (touch wood) have not had a bun with ongoing dental problems so only really know hat I've been told in theory x

Hay and grass are the main things to keep their molars down as they chew differently (side to side) rather than up and down with pellets/veg. Carrrots are OK to keep their front teeth down but can contribute to weight gain.

Their diet should be 80-90% hay.

I have a few things you can try to get them to eat more hay.

· Take his favorite treat, hide it in the hay and make him forage around to get to it.

· If he gets any veggies, mix hay in with them, hay will stick to the moist veggies and he may grow to like the hay.

· If he likes carrots, you can shred a carrot and mix it in with the hay, the carrot will also stick to the hay.

· You can also mist the hay with a diluted fruit juice (if he likes a certain flavor) which may entice him to eat it.

· Also, put hay everywhere that he frequents; make it so he can’t get away from it.

· Rabbits also like to eat hay in their litter box; most rabbits will only use one side of the litter box for waste. Place the hay in “clean” side. There is no need for concern about him eating soiled hay, he will just pick around it.

For any bun, if their diet is 80% hay, the hay can grind down the ongoing growth of their teeth.

Because a bun keep moving their mouth, it's hard to inspect the deeper end of their mouth for over grow teeth, sometimes they have to be in an "induced state", not a GA, but the condition just before that to check their teeth.

The way I do it, is to use a digital otoscope, it's not cheap, but when I work out going to the vet for $90/visit, if I go just over a dozen time, I break even the cost, and I can inspect them as often as I want.

see photo

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=134521

Thanks everyone

We are worried about teeth and also gut problems (because of our poor clover)

When the vet checked both their teeth when we first got them, he just opened their mouths and had a look. I wish i had known how important is was to ask for something more thorough. Obviously little clover is gone now, but we are a little anxious about keeping lavender healthy. We have been asking around people we know locally and it really sounds liek most rabbits just don't last long so we are anxious about getting the care right.
When we get lavender spayed we are going to ask the vet to do a very thorough teeth check and do anything if it is needed.
Lavnder does eat the hay (the other one never did) though i am not sure she is having enough. She certainly seems healthy. She eats hay on the clean side of her litter tray and in her living space upstairs. We have put loads and loads of hay in the hutch part and as she doesn't soil it we don't need to replace much, so i am not sure if she is having enough. I wondered about putting less in, but my husband insists on having loads and loads so she doesn;t get cold.
I am worried about her eating too much grass. We would like her to have at least 2 hours running around the lawn in good weather where we can supervise her. But poor clover loved his grass and the vet said that grass does not have enough nutritional content especially if wet, so even though clover had been eating grass up until being unwell, basically it was not enough for a healthy gut.
So although Lavender eats hay, we are anxious about whether to still let her have a couple of hours on the grass or not.
Also today, she had some of those other poos (can't remember name bunches or grapes and a bit squashed from sitting on them) in her run. her proper poos were normally formed, mixture of brown and brown/yellow. i was told before that this could be a sign of eating too much pellets, but we are strict about the amount. But yesterday we did start slowly mixing a new type of all in one pellet (about 30% new pellet mixed with her usualy mixed food)with the mixed food she is used too.
Lynsey:?

ok firstly hay is dreid grass wild rabbits graze on grass all day so if your rabbit grzes and eats grass that is fine the only prob with gras sis if a bun isnt used toit and suddenly gets to gorge teh ycan get a tummy upset cuz its rich. either grass or hay is fine but they ned to eat plenty of it. hay in hutch as bedding is great as this means she is more likely t o eat it. i would also suggest if you think she not eating it at all to try a new hay... most of the commercial ones inpet shops are brown and dusty... a greenish coloured hay is more fresh...and its cheaper a farm wil lsell you a bale for around £5 which is huge and fresh ...failing this dust free hay company does a good one as doesexcel forage and the hay experts some bunnys are very fussy about what hays they will eat i have a freind whos bun only eats timothy hay...very very fussy and expensive my buns get a large bale of meadow hay from the local farm and hapily munch that when in their hutch.. the rest of the time they are out in garden grazing on the grass xx

Hi Lynsey
You are doing all the right things. the only other thing I would ask the vet to do is to x-ray Lavender's teeth while she is having her spay. That is the only true way they can tell if anything is growing into their jaw.

Unfortunatley my Homer's have grown through his jaw and was not found out until a year ago which is why he has to have regular dentals (he refuses all hay) - this was even though I kept asking the vet if his teeth were OK. I too am wiser now.

If she is a good hay eater then that is the best thing to keep her molars down. Mine are free range while we are in so have access to the grass at least 4 hours a day. If Lavender is not used to it then you would just have to introduce gradually.

Thanks

She has been with us about 5 weeks and as there was a bit of soft poo a couple fo days after allowing them free grass access, we cut down and then built up again. Hopefully she is fine with lots of grass then.
Probably just paranoid because of Clover and then her leaving caetrophs today. Obvioulsy eating them is ideal, but are there any big concerns about her leaving them? Should i be concerned/take her to vets?
bws
Lynsey

I don't know why your vet said that eating grass is not enough - what do the wild bunnies eat all day??!! Rabbit's should eat 80% hay/grass. Grass actually has a higher nutritional value than hay - thats why my horse gets very fat in summer lol!! When the grass dries out (to make hay), it loses nutritional value. Anyway, the other 15% should be veg and the final 5% should be pellets (this is about 2 tablespoons pellets for a 2kg rabbit). That was the diet recommended to me by Brigitte Reucsh (very good bunny vet). The 15% veg amounts to 2 small handfuls daily (for a 2kg bun) and should be a varied mix of veg. It is the hay and grass that will keep your bunnies teeth at their best as they are very abrasive on the teeth. I would not think that 2 weeks is not long enough to see changes in a rabbits teeth as they only grow a few mm per month. You would normally see changes at around 6-8 weeks. However, all bunnies differ. When a vet uses an otoscope (an instrument designed to look down dog and cat ears) to look at a rabbit's teeth, up to 70% of dental problems can be missed. It is very difficult to get a good look at a conscious rabbit's teeth. So even if the vet says its all fine, they may be problems (particularly at the back of the mouth and the sides of the tongue where it is difficult to see with an otoscope). If a bunny has stopped eating and has a history of dental problems, even if nothing is seen with the otoscope, then an anaethetic is needed to get a true picture of what is going on in the rabbit's mouth. Some rabbits just have bad jaw formation and will always need dental treatment (my bunny is one of them) and no amount of hay and grass will change that, however, the more hay and grass they eat, the less dentals they should need as the teeth will be kept down as best as possible. Hope that helps!

Hi there

I think he was helping me to figure how how come the rabbit became so ill when he had been eating up until the day he showed illness. He was on the small side when we got him and put on a bit of weight, then lost a bit and was how he was when he came and then suddenly he didn't eat one day and looked much skinnier than the day before (turned out he was dehydrated too which made it look worse).

I had been upset that the woman phoning me from the vets had made it sound like i had neglected the rabbit as 'he has obviously not eaten for weeks before you brought him in'. so when i spoke to the vet, i explained that up until the day he got ill (and we saw an emergency vet that evening) he had been eating grass, pellets and veg, so we had no reason to think he was starving. I also complained the vet we saw had not picked up on the teeth problems a couple of weeks before. So, he said that if he did not eat hay (whch he didn't seem to), then the teeth could have got bad quickly (perhaps he was making excuses) and also would have caused him being underweight. If we had known he had teeth problems and would need surgery, we would have made more effort to fatten him up quicker and ask about any special diets.

Oh, and he said that grass is not so good when it is wet from the weather.

This bunny does not seem unwell but we will ask for a full dental check when she is spayed as she will be under anyway.

So, you would say it doesn't matter whether the main bulk of the diet is grass or hay?

many thanks
Lynsey

bif still eats belive it or not..not as much or as much hay etc but she does which helps her alot as her tum moves then but if its really big spurs then she slows right down and im off to the vets like a rocket.
saldy we learn lessons the hard way with our pets even if it means the detah of one or more form unintended ignorance or tkaing the vets word as gospel when theyre not at all rabbit savvy..i know ive had this happen..dont worry youre not alone

but we learn and make notes and know what to watch for..ask about..expect next time. i have never had abuns skull xrayed even with bunny savvy vets they usually feel the tooth roots and then xray to see if theyre worried or a severe history of teeth probs get worse etc or dont clear up a bit.

as much grass and hay as poss...but like i said domestic esp indoor buns dont get grass as such they get hay.ok dried gras..cos norm grass to a bun whose tum isnt used to it can get lots of soft poos and upset tummies...slowy build up grass grazing time. some dried grasses are vet abrasive much more than some grass naturally its a case of trial and error.

dental buns are nit every bun..ive had 7 buns..2 of which are resuces who came to me at 18 monhts..one i adopted at 18 months from a friend....one we got at 8 months form abreeder who was shutting donw and now we know why a baby frenchie from the same person we adopted bertie from and she breeds for shows as a hobby..and my very first house bun was a baby from a pet shop..and she was sooo ill but she managed to live with us for 18 months instead of the 3 the vet would have suspected shed have lived for. but they never xrayed ehr skull and she had ga dentals every month! the 8 monht old bunny we got died form gi stais and had dental probs...
but woozle was an upy eared bun and he didnt...berties a frenchie lop and so far hes never had a dental prob..neither has our other frenchie willow..or bandit my rescue lionhead...
lops are more prone..my 1st was a dwarf lop....the next dental bun was a mini lop..and bifs part lionhead but shes maneless and part lop......

i found that buns appreciate a few stalks of things like dried thistle stalks etc..very fibrous and have to chewed..a lot!

mm does bun have a bottle for water as we found they drink more and faster from a bowl....they need fluid more when its a dry diet but wet or damp grass can make them drink less but still be ok...should increase poops!
like i said buy a tube of FIBREPLEX to help tummy as well as grass n hay etc for teeth..itll help a lot.