On-going bonding right now!!

Hello

We have adopted George (formally Hex). You can read all about him at http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=143426

He has settled down very well and is eating loads ( he was depressed after losing his partner)

As you can see form these pics he is in a temporary run next to Sugar. They sniff each other and sit next to each other for long periods of time, they eat next to each other and share grass etc through the wire.

We attempted to start bonding them this afternoon by putting them in an enormous cardboard box in a spare room Sugar hasn't been in. Sugar immediately mounted George and seemed to be bitting his back. We seperated them a few times and some clumps of George's fur had been pulled out.

I have been studying this forum and reading all about bonding. I really need to know how you can tell the difference between 'real biting' and just 'fur pulling'

We stopped after a few minutes. I'm sure this was too soon and we should have stuck it out but we coudn't tell if Sugar was biting or not (looked like she was hanging on). George ddin't seem particularly bothered ( he's twice her size) but possibly turned to nip her the last time she was humping him.

Maybe the spare room wasn't neutral enough? Sugar roams freely around our house but not in there. She knew she was in the house of course whereas George has never been in before.

We have been reading about setting up a run in the garden with a new hutch. Should we do that? But what about when its time to move back to Sugars home ( purpose built indoor run leading to outside run)?

Should we let him keep his litter tray or start to use Sugars? ( She shared with Daisy her late partner)

HELP PLEASE.

i think if she is mounting him then she will only be pulling tufts of fur out, not actually biting into his skin. while ever he doesnt seem bothered i would leave them to it, only seperate if fighting. a bit of chasing is usual too, again dont seperate unless fighting. sometimes if one of them is a bit giddy and keeps mounting, we put them in a pet carrier so that they have no choice but to be close to one another but not much room for humping, just for a few hours while they get used to being really near each other. the way they are sat side by side in the picture looks like they like each others company, just need to get the 'who is boss 'decision sorted and this wont happen when you split them.if its un-nerved you a bit leave them a few more days,then try again.its best to try when you know you are going to be at home a lot so if it looks like its working you will be able to keep an eye on them over the next few days just in case.

I'm driving myself mad reading up on bonding. I'm getting a bit confussed:?
as to what is best for Sug and George.

It's the bit about not seperating them once you start the process I'm having difficulty with. Do we have to stay up and watch over them all night?

I have been thinking about using a playhouse in our garden as I think the door has always been shut when Sugar is playing outside. It would be a nice size and we could keep an eye on them. But what about over night? Do we bring them back in to their seperate runs or leave them out? I don't fancy sleeping outside!

If you are leaving them in a room eg) bathroom for a few hours, do you put their litter trays in?

Is it possible that you could put them together first thing in the morning and if they don't properly fight they would be ok to put into Sugars run by night time? (We will move hutch around and clean with vinegar first). If not, do you leave them in the bathroom over night and put them in Sugars run the next day? When?

What's best? I'm getting a bit stressed and I don't want to pass this on to the Buns.
P L E A S E H E L P !!!!!!

If I can't work it out............Is there anyone in Leeds who offers a bonding service??????

I put mine together in a 4ft cage on sat there still in it now,i have been sleeping downstairs though

Hiya :wave: I dont think your supposed to move them so soon after bonding :? When i bonded George and Lottie i bought an indoor cage so neither had been in before and left them in there for about a week. I know its small but thats what you need to bond I then moved them to Georges outside hutch (used vinegar to clean) and they have been fine ever since

I think you need to leave them in a neuteral space for more than 1 day :? just because if you move them too soon it may cause a fight etc. This is what i was advised, hope it helps Keep us updated xXx

Just had an idea, but it might be totally wrong.....

What about putting them both into the temporary run we have set up for George. It's Sugar that's the dominant one so it might be better to put her into Georges run?????

It's a temporary place next to her run and we can make it bigger or smaller. We could start it really small and get bigger.

Here is a pic so you can see what I mean







Or, set up a totally new run for them both in another area of the garage. We could make it any size at all. But Sug might think its her territory cos she might be able to still smell her own home. It's a big double garage and I'm willing to move it all around. I could also completely neutralise the area first with Vinager.

What do you think of this idea?




She's a lovely bun really, just a bit bossy!

You need a small area about 4ft x 2ft

the less space they have,the less chance of chasing. chasing sometimes starts off a fight.an indoor cage is best if you have room inside, that way you would hear them in the night if they decided to fight. but i know not everyone has room for this. if you need to you can always bring them back over to us for a week and we will have a go for you. it's always harder when its your own. i need a female pairing with piglet, the one that was biting your trousers while you were here, but i keep thinking of an excuse to wait a bit longer :?

We have started the bonding process!!! 5 hours in and we are camped out in our bedroom watching over the buns in the bathroom. After initial humping from Sugar, George turned round and tried to mount her. Had a few scuffles and have had to seperate them about 6 times. Since then they have settled into opposite corners and are sprawled out and resting. Every so often George comes over for a sniff but Sug just jumps up and stamps her foot! This has been going on for a couple of hours and at first when he approached her she reacted strongly, stamping and going for him so they had to be seperated, then it was just stamping and George goes back to his corner. The last time he started to come over she just looked at him and he turned round and went back without being stamped at. Just now we has a full sniff nose to nose for a split second, Sug came towards him abit too. No adverse reaction but George made a hasty retreat to his corner.

We hope this is all normal and going in the right direction. The thing is we daren't leave them alone which is a bit restrictive. Hubby has gone to work now and I'm stuck in the bedroom watching over sleeping binnies. Thank goodness for laptops and wireless conection or I'd have gone mad by now!!

No idea who is going to get the kids tea!

Please send bonding vibes to Sugar and George.

let the kids make sandwiches and picknick on the bed :lol:

Sounds like its going well Are they grooming themselves?? Eating anything together?? xxx

Eating hay and grass but not together at all. Grooming themselves loads but not anywhere near each other. They are copying each other a bit. George is a digger and Sug isn't really, but has been copying him when he does digging movements and both keep rearranging the rug.

George has gone to sleep! Sugar is just sitting with her bcak to him in opposite corner trying to get my attention with a toilet roll tube.

Sugar George......PLEASE

Not much progress to report

Just more of the same.

George approaches Sug, where she is sat, who gets up and thumps and possibly leads to a scuffle which we break up by shouting 'no' or pull them apart. Or, Sugar approaches George (when he is away from his corner only) which leads to a scuffle which we stop. Or George comes over and gets thumped at and retreats.

We introduced a neutral litter tray about 20 mins ago (cos no bun has pooed or wee-ed since we started) and so far they have not come out from their corners. I put a little bit of Sug and Georges sawdust from their own litter trays into the new one.

What do we do at tea time? Do we give them seperate neutral bowls and greens in their corners? Do we put down one neutral bowl and greens? Do we give them their tea in their usual bowls?

We are in this for the long haul. I'm not going back to square one and am prepared to have to sit it out. Given that we are making no progress at all does anyone have any idea how long this will take? Will the aceptance of each other be gradual or will it just happen? When they are in their seperate sorners they are totally chilled its only when they come up to each other there is a problem.

It's approaching Sugs tea time. What are we to do??

Please advise.

Sugar George

Sounds all pretty normal to me. You do have to be quite thickskinned. I do feed together when I bond, but I watch them in case anyone gets bullied. Never had a problem though. In fact, they seem distracted:lol:

Thank you

New bowls? usual bowls? or one to share?

I don't want to get it wrong and cause a fight


SugarGeorge

PLumfy said:

Thank you

New bowls? usual bowls? or one to share?

I don't want to get it wrong and cause a fight


SugarGeorge

Click to expand...

You are a lot more careful than I ever am:lol: One bowl that's been washed:lol: If they fight, feed in two separate bowls, alone until they are properly bonded

star date 18.40 16.09.08 (lol)

Ok, we have slight change now. Seems the dominance is changing. A couple of times now when they've gone nose-to-nose Sugar has been the one to back off (with a stamp or so as well), and the last time she jumped away from George and out of the temp run into my arms.

George is now seemingly strolling around the temp run whilst Sugar is sitting, squashed into her corner, not moving around at all. Also, he's moved more towards the middle, making his 'corner' bigger, and obvioulsy making Sugar's comfort zone smaller.

We put two bowls of food and spring green leaves out for each of them, but in proximity to the middle of the area. George has happily muched through most of his. Sugar, obviously hungry, got stuck into her leaf but as soon as she notived that George was close by eating his, she stopped and didn't eat anything more and retreated to her corner. So I've just moved Georges bowl back and George too. Now Sugar is getting stuck into her tea. Cheeky George keeps pushing his bowl forward again.

The good news is still that when they are not 'too' close they both seem happy..... it's just when they get close, it looks like it will kick off again if we dont intervene.

Still nothing in the litter tray (or elsewhere).

Does this all sound like progress???

One question looking forward - how do you do 'nights'? If we go to bed by the time we wake up and get to them then it could be too late. Do they get livlier or sleep at night?

Don't know if we can do a sleep-interupted night !

GeorgeSugar...... please !!

after 12 hours....RESULT

I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happy.happyhappy!

George has started to groom Sugar

They are lying down together now

It's only taken 12 hours!!!!

Sugar just gave in to his constant approaching. She made some wimpering noises and looked submissive. He is being so gentle with her.

I hope this lasts.

Are we in the clear now or is it a roller coaster process?

GEORGE SUGAR

this is good, when i got linus and frosty back from janices he mounted her non stop pretty much for 2 hours poor gal, she stuck her bum to the wall and he got devious and nipped her paws to make her move, and due to her size shes a large lop and hes a mini rex it was almost humorous watching a small bun clinging on for dear life while he had a break and his front paws never touched the ground :lol: but they are fine, totaly in love

Ive been on the sofa since sat every night with mine,they are more lively at night mine have been between 11pm-2am:shock: Mine were grooming after only a few hours but were still chasing it other:?