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A topic for debate....

Julia123

Warren Veteran
As some of you may know I am an artist, I paint oil on canvas, after a timely break due to personal circumstance I am now back working and have a few comissions and a body of work for an exhibition to prepare.

So here comes the crunch, I make up my own canvases (make timber reinforced frames and stretch unbleached cotton duck canvas over them) I was taught at Oxford uni and have always used organic materials.....

.... after making the frames they need to be sized (a ground that prepares the canvas for paint and stops bleed and unecessary saturation)....

the traditional ground is...... rabbit skin glue - a crystal compound that is mixed with water and heated ...etc etc

My question is.... How ethical is it for me to continue to use this????

I am involved in rabbit rescue and am a vegitarian of 28 years. I have never previously considered it as it was part of the process... my choices are...

Beef size... but the strength can cause bowing of timber and ripping of canvas due to the make up...

Acrylic size - goes beyond all my beliefs in organic make up and would inevitably decrease the longevity of the paintings...

What say you ?????
 
Do they use rabbits who have died naturally? Or is it a by-product of rabbits killed for their meat/skin?

I don't have strong personal opinions on the use of animals for food/clothing etc to be honest, but I can understand completely why some people do.
 
Do they use rabbits who have died naturally? Or is it a by-product of rabbits killed for their meat/skin?

I don't have strong personal opinions on the use of animals for food/clothing etc to be honest, but I can understand completely why some people do.

I honestly don't know... :? I can't imagine they are bred for the purpose so would assume its a bi-product...
 
I would use acrylic size, but I'm not an artist.

Our conservator at work has to use animal products despite being a vegetarian. He doesn't have a choice though, because all repairs need to be made using non-synthetic products.
 
I know as a vegetarian that it's nigh on impossible to totally eliminate using animal by products unless you're a hermit. However, I find it difficult to knowingly use something once I know it's source and in this case, I'd have to use the acrylic.
 
I wouldn't be happy about either rabbit or beef size :?

I'd definitely be going for the acrylic - but - do you know how much it would affect the longevity of the paintings?
 
I would use acrylic size, but I'm not an artist.

Our conservator at work has to use animal products despite being a vegetarian. He doesn't have a choice though, because all repairs need to be made using non-synthetic products.

Where do you work - that sounds interesting,

tbh I'm a non synthetic user and would struggle with acrylic - my paintings are made to withstand hundreds of years - which they wouldn't if I used acrylic ground as the oil and acryilic would eventually separate and crack and peel, the feel of a synthetic ground is also horrible as its .... ultimately plastic! :mrgreen:

That said its a toughy...
 
Interesting...so if you paid £600 for a painting and it started to decay in 10 years how would you feel?

I'm not being awkward just trying to get my head round this....

My thoughts currently are that, I have the size and enough to last me for another 20 or so canvases, should I use it or not?
 
Our conservator has to repair, clean (and conserve, obviously) old books, less valuable paintings, old papers, parchment, etc.

The idea is that you use materials which have been proven to stand the test of time. Although apparently there is every possibility that the new materials will last a long time, there is no documented evidence. Ideally no repairs should be made that can't be reversed, even when using traditional methods and materials...for example there was a fashion for using sausage skins to repair parchment :shock: , but that would be frowned upon nowadays.
 
Interesting...so if you paid £600 for a painting and it started to decay in 10 years how would you feel?

I'm not being awkward just trying to get my head round this....

My thoughts currently are that, I have the size and enough to last me for another 20 or so canvases, should I use it or not?
Can't get my head round that as there's no way I would pay £600 for a painting :oops:
 
Our conservator has to repair, clean (and conserve, obviously) old books, less valuable paintings, old papers, parchment, etc.

The idea is that you use materials which have been proven to stand the test of time. Although apparently there is every possibility that the new materials will last a long time, there is no documented evidence. Ideally no repairs should be made that can't be reversed, even when using traditional methods and materials...for example there was a fashion for using sausage skins to repair parchment :shock: , but that would be frowned upon nowadays.

Well exactly, for example history isn't always right, paintings on gesso ground are nigh on impossible to restore, I know for a fact the chemical make up of the acrylic ground won't give me the results i want.... the paint will sit on the surface as opposed to being hooked up in the teeth of the canvas at pre-paint level... maybe I'm being to techinical...sorry Its a real issue for me
 
if you look at it like this......ignoring the pet issue, both the rabbit and the beef are being bred and killed for food which is the ultimate reason for the death of the animal. Using their size is the same as buying leather shoes, having a leather sofa or having a sheepskin rug. If you have any of those then I would use the animal products...especially if you already have it.

On the rabbit vs beef issue, it's a tough one. You have them as pets but many people have goldfish as pets but will still eat fish. When you get down to it, cows do not have the fluffiness and cuteness of bunnies it is true and they may be slightly less intelligent (although pigs are supposed to be the 2nd most intelligent domesticated animal after dogs) but in the end taking of a cows life is not worse or better than a rabbit so, if it gives you a better quality picture I would go with rabbit.
 
I actually used it to size 3 canvases tonight :oops::oops::oops::oops: I'm still not comfortable with it - hence the post. I did it in my study which is an out of bounds bunny area - and put an air freshener outside the door...didn't want my house buns to smell it...ohhhhhh why is this so hard....:cry::cry::cry:
 
if you look at it like this......ignoring the pet issue, both the rabbit and the beef are being bred and killed for food which is the ultimate reason for the death of the animal. Using their size is the same as buying leather shoes, having a leather sofa or having a sheepskin rug. If you have any of those then I would use the animal products...especially if you already have it.

On the rabbit vs beef issue, it's a tough one. You have them as pets but many people have goldfish as pets but will still eat fish. When you get down to it, cows do not have the fluffiness and cuteness of bunnies it is true and they may be slightly less intelligent (although pigs are supposed to be the 2nd most intelligent domesticated animal after dogs) but in the end taking of a cows life is not worse or better than a rabbit so, if it gives you a better quality picture I would go with rabbit.

Exactly what I was going to say :)

Can we see some of your paintings hun? :) x
 
Agree with Lucy on this one. :D

And Julia's paintings are fab ...... even the ones stashed in the garage! :roll: :lol:
 
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