Your opinions on breeding...

[Thumper & Boo]

As the title suggests this is a thread started with the intention of opening up a discussion on your opinions on breeding?

If you are a rabbit rescue how do you feel rabbit breeders contribute the sheer volume of rescue rabbits?

If you are a regular rabbit owner do you buy into breeders and the idea that a specific breed could be better suited to you?

If you are breeder how do you justify selling a life? do you breed purely to better the breed? is an accidental income or a investment opportunity? Does breeding offer better rabbits than standard X-breed rabbits?

I express no opinion in these opening questions, just the opportunity for friendly and adult discussion. Please feel free to add you your own.

I will add my own opinion in a separate post to this thread.

[Lillian]

Not sure its a good idea talking about this because it normally becomes an arguement :roll:

[animal ry]

lillian is right it becomes and arugment but i agree with breeding as we all got our beloved animals from a litter not the moon

[donnamt]

not really for or against myself... but i have huge issues with inbreeding... i cant for the life of me understand how people can come away from a petshop with a brother and sister and let them do the deed just to see cute babies :evil::evil::evil:

humans aint allowed to inbreed so why do people force animals too :roll:

*wonders how long itll take the thread to get locked* :shock:

[nicolapompicola]

Breeing for the right reasons is fine in my opinion, as long as you can either keep all of the babies or allready have homes lined up for them. The right reasons include to better the breed, or breeding for temperement. I know there are a lot of bunnies out there that need homes, but, not every home is suited to a rescue bun..

[AnnaDelie]

I'll be quite honest on my part, but don't want to cause any arguements on this..

Now knowing what I do know (after being on here) I'd love to take on a bun from a rescue - I keep seeing some in P@H and my heart strings pull! It doesn't matter on the breed or the age, bunnies are just divine to me, and I want them all :lol:

I think it's good we have some (registered) breeders just to keep the pure bred bunnies going, but there are too many people who do this for fun, or just unaware and breed all kinds of variations.

Bunnies are quite cheap to buy compared to cats/dogs, so some owners may not even get them spayed/castrated - this seems to be the problem. Plus I don't believe there is enough awareness or knowledge passed onto the new owner that it is vital you get them neutered if you have both sexes.

Sum up - I love bunnies, so glad there are some breeders, but there should be more restrictions/knowledge passed to new owners as "bunnies will be at it like bunnies!!"

[Thumper & Boo]

oh fair enough, so much for being original... lol.

Personally I am pretty torn. I bought my two different breeds of cats for their breeds specifically and as expected got completely different characters (inline with their breeds) I also have two giants which were not bought but rescued but their temperament is inline with the breed description...


For this one I have to say "I sit on the fence"

[Lauralou]

i cant for the life of me understand how people can come away from a petshop with a brother and sister and let them do the deed just to see cute babies :evil::evil::evil:

humans aint allowed to inbreed so why do people force animals too :roll:



so true.

it's just a recipe for disaster, genetic mess up anyone?!

[Thea & Bobbin]

Breeing for the right reasons is fine in my opinion, as long as you can either keep all of the babies or allready have homes lined up for them. The right reasons include to better the breed, or breeding for temperement. I know there are a lot of bunnies out there that need homes, but, not every home is suited to a rescue bun..

I looked at the title of this thread, and willed myself not to open it :roll: :lol:

Oh well, here my 2 pence...


... I have highlighted your above comment because this is something that really infuriates me, I am by no means accusing you of this, but I find it very upsetting that people think it is their right to have an animal :?

90% of the time there is nothing out of the ordinary with rescue rabbits, I can think of no circumstances where a family would have better reasons going to a breeder for a rabbit than a rescue :?

[animal ry]

not breeding relations is ok though :D

[elve]

as you can see from my siggy I'm dead against the deliberate breeding of animals when there are already over 30,000 of them in rescue, many babies from accidental litters, all desperate for homes and presently being cared for by unselfish people who have to work their butts of looking after the fallout from people who insist on breeding more animals when there's not enough GOOD homes (ie permanent for 10yrs) out there.

It's just indefensible - I have many purebred, show quality alpaca guinea pigs rescued off a breeder - yes they are lovely, but if alpaca guinea pigs died out of existence tomorrow it wouldn't make any difference to the world as they are just a fashion accessory bred artificially for human interest - they really couldn't care less about being cute and unusual - they just want their food, safety, and comforts like all animals do.

[Samantha]

deleted

[Deelove]

if you do a search on breeding debate I'm sure a few will come up. :)
I don't mind breeders, as long as they have the welfare of the animals in mind. To me a responsible breeder will not breed unless they have guaranteed homes for their animals and are able to keep them if they don't. They should treat their breeding animals by the same welfare standards as they would for a pet etc.
I'm not a fan of people breeding for fun/money without knowing the background of their animals, health problems and researching the genetics. It's easy enough to have accidents etc to get cross breeds without needing to purposefully make more.

[twinks22]

:wave: I agree with not inbreeding , as a breeder i do not agree with it , we just had two does of a breeder and both were bred to there brother :shock: . the babys didn't survive and quite frankly i never expected them to , inbred rabbits , especially brothers and sisters being bred together , the outcome of the babys is they are loony and can be very aggressive ,one minute there all friendly and cute , next minute there like the excorsist., you can always tell an inbred rabbit , they look like there eyes are going to pop out and there staring . I'm glad this topic was started so we can get it out in the open with each other about how we feel about breeding , i have total respect for rescue's as i feel they do a great job :) , but maybe somtimes they need to respect breeders a little bit more ( thats not aiming at anyone inpaticular). Breeding is a hobby that can be enjoyable , but i am saddened that they are breeders i have met along the way who use there rabbits as breeding machines and have no respect for there rabbits , all rabbits should have tlc , no exception.

[ZakuraRabbit]

I agree to SERIOUS breeding.

However I do not agree for breeding rabbits just for the sake of getting more cute little baby rabbits, or for fun.

Any breeder should never breed an aggresive or sick rabbit, though I am not 100% against inbreeding, it can work if done correctly, an if only 100% healthy animals are used in breeding, as diseases can't just pop out from nowhere even if the parents are related. I know some breeders who inbred, due a very small breeding stock as the breed itself is still in development (minirexes and "plush lops" are very rare in Norway, first one isn't even showable yet, though ironically plush lops are an accepted variety of lop dwarf (alongside cashmere and normal-fured) although I have never seen a purebred lop with rex-fur) Occasionally they do some father-daughter breedings, but these are experienced breeders who's rabbits have well-known pedigrees, and no health issues in the family. Others just breed minirexes to small standards, though getting the right size is hard no matter what.
One such breeder is extremely picky with her breeding stock, and tends to take nearly a whole litter out of breeding if they are a bit too large or have a tiny "error", these are then neutered and sold as pets to commited owners.

Personally there are a lot of rabbits I myself would never breed, including:
Rescue rabbits- Even if its pedigreed and all...breeding from a rabbit which was previously unwanted just seems wrong to me:(

Un-pedigreed/pet shop rabbits- You can never be quite sure if a pet shop rabbit is purebreed, or if it comes from a litter of "Fluffy and Thumper" (Just a nickname for your typical pet rabbit) whereas "Thumper" may have bad teeth and "Fluffy" is highly aggressive.

Aggressive rabbits- Some say breeding aggressive does calm them down.... but if you do that, you might as well end up with 5 bunnies who are just as bad. Breed them as well and you have 25. There's no need for this, also quite often the doe snaps back to being aggresive soon after the kits leave.

Mixbreds (to a certain degree)- If there's no reason to, don't. Though this pretty much qualify to purebred rabbits too, just because its pure doesn't mean it should be bred. Although I do agree to mixbreeding if it is for a good cause, like bettering a breed, and if the offspring that aren't as you'd want them are taken well cared of.

Sick rabbits- Bad teeth and certain illnesses can be inherited. Even if a rabbit only has a parent with bad teeth and is perfectly healthy itself, it carries the gene and should not be bred from.

I sometimes consider myself a breeder, although I have only had one litter yet. I have certain priorities for all bunnies used in breeding: Health comes first, closely followed by temper, breed and marking (certain markings should not be mixed as they sometimes cause health problems in the offpsring, broken, capped and english markings sometimes causes this, although I have met some such rabbbits who are perfectly fine, I've also seen those who are not)

[Angie65]

I am completely 100% anti-breeding. I think although there may be SOMETHING to be gained by breeding rare purebred buns, it's largely a selfish thing & completely at odds with rabbit welfare as a whole.

[honeybunny]

I'm anti breeding but do want to add their are a couple of breeders on here who I respect as they have kept their cool under a lot of criticism in the past,
do not have their does constantly pregnant and check out future homes.
They are also very knowledgable on rabbit care.

However there are so many terrible breeders who will stick any two bunnies together, breed a doe til she is exhausted, sell to anyone, keep their "stock" in dreadful conditions and have hardly any knowledge on care.

This can be seen when someone comes on this or other forums asking a very basic question on care then states at the end of their post "..and I've been breeding for 3 years"

At Honeybunnies we see the fallout from these amatuers and it's sickening:cry:

Just like pedigree dogs..a pure bred bun doesn't mean it will be better than a cross breed..

at present we have 47 rabbits loking for homes which include dwarf lops, lionheads, nethies, a frenchie and a british giant x...so where's the need to go to a breeder for a specific look??

[Mandy]

I don't agree with breeding at all.

Breeding for show is about ego and does nothing for rabbit welfare.

There are too many animals out there needing homes and not getting them to justify bringing more into the world.

[twinks22]

Oh dear , god you do make us look like selfish , uncaring , egomaniacs. Do you seriously feel we don't care for our bunnys . I'm a bit upset and hurt :cry:

[louise and Gus]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think you can breed rabbits for temperment like you can dogs of whatever, they are shaped by thier surroundings rather than their breed or genetics so it kind of blows the "breeding for temprement" agrument out the water?

[minirex]

I don't agree with breeding. This applies to all 'pet' animals. It's so sad to see the number of kittens, rabbits and pups on free adds. Most of them end up being advertised as 'free to good home' because nobody wants them.

[ZakuraRabbit]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think you can breed rabbits for temperment like you can dogs of whatever, they are shaped by thier surroundings rather than their breed or genetics so it kind of blows the "breeding for temprement" agrument out the water?

I disagree. You can in fact breed rabbits for temperament, I've known this out of own experience. :D

Take my Zakura as an example. She did in fact come from two rather friendly rabbits (although I heard rumours her mother used to be bad too before she got her first litter))
She was born in a litter of 5, all of which were sent of to completely different homes, and I kept in touch with two new owners.
Zakura snapped when she was 4 months old, refusing to let me come into her cage even to feed her, and this even though I have never mistreated her in her whole life, having known her since she was 2 weeks old (and no she wasn't separated from her mom yet at this age of course)
The following summer I heard her brother had been put to sleep due to similar problems, and another brother was given away due to bad temperament.
So in short: 3 rabbits from the same litter growing up in completely different surroundings turned out to get very aggresive.

To take a completely different example is my other rabbit Aroma, who came from a lot better planned litter.
I know her mother's breeder, and she told me about her grandparents, she described them as very friendly and one was also said to be very hyper.
Aroma is an extremely cuddly hyperactive rabbit.

A rabbit's temper is both genetic and learned behaviour.

[Indiechic]

Personally, I am against breeding.

This is not a dig at breeders, but... yes all animals came from breeders, BUT with 30,000 rabbits waiting for a home, why encourage the breeding of any more?

i do also feel that there are too many accidents for them all to be accidents. That again is not a dig.

I also would say that to say ive been against it all my life would be silly, Marsha came from a pet shop. she is lovely and i would not change her. I now only rescue, i do not buy from breeders. But that is my choice, made because i feel that i could not buy when there are so many rabbits needing homes. :wave:

[Mandy]

Oh dear , god you do make us look like selfish , uncaring , egomaniacs. Do you seriously feel we don't care for our bunnys . I'm a bit upset and hurt :cry:

I'm sure you do care for your rabbits, but that has nothing to do with people being against breeding.

If you agree with breeding why not state your views and reasons :)

[rabbitabby]

I would have to agree with your bit on having a breed selection through adopting. Every rabbit I have brought into my home has been adopted. Especially with my last adoption, I knew I wanted a larger breed bun.. In the middle of midwestern farming area Iowa, I could have easily gone and bought a Flemish from the many breeders around here. Instead, I waited until the perfect larger bun came up through our local adoption center.

I can't say much as I used to breed Standard, Violet and Violet Carrier mutation chinchillas, but my herd was slightly small (around 30), and I always gave mums 3 months to recoup after their weaning period and the 3 month gestation period. They were treated like any other of my pet chinchillas and handled when possible (when I say when possible, as in when they weren't carrying for fear of causing injury to mom or growing kits). Their health and happiness was my first concern. I spent nearly two years painstaking pairing healthy, clean genetic background animals to group that few number of animals into what was my herd. Genetics and responsible breeding were my first concern when it came to breeding outside of the proper care of the animals. I have lost and seen many countless happy pets lose their lives to genetic malocclusion.

I guess what I'm trying to say through this ramble is that we cannot judge breeders as a whole, but on individual levels. Everyone has their priorities and their main concerns. There are many out there, and as I've browsed the forums I know that there are many here, who's first concern is the health and happiness of the animal, and they aren't to be faulted, IMO.

I'm anti breeding but do want to add their are a couple of breeders on here who I respect as they have kept their cool under a lot of criticism in the past,
do not have their does constantly pregnant and check out future homes.
They are also very knowledgable on rabbit care.

However there are so many terrible breeders who will stick any two bunnies together, breed a doe til she is exhausted, sell to anyone, keep their "stock" in dreadful conditions and have hardly any knowledge on care.

This can be seen when someone comes on this or other forums asking a very basic question on care then states at the end of their post "..and I've been breeding for 3 years"

At Honeybunnies we see the fallout from these amatuers and it's sickening:cry:

Just like pedigree dogs..a pure bred bun doesn't mean it will be better than a cross breed..

at present we have 47 rabbits loking for homes which include dwarf lops, lionheads, nethies, a frenchie and a british giant x...so where's the need to go to a breeder for a specific look??

[twinks22]

Okey dokey :) . My view on breeding is this , here's a list of what i believe to be a bad breeder is -

no.1 - back to back breeding , as soon as the litter have had eight weeks or sometimes six weeks with the mum , the mum has no time to rest and she is put with the other buck. this cause stress and illness and there insides don't have time to go back right , in a nutshell its downright cruel:evil:.

no.2 - breeding from doe's or bucks who can not take the breeding , yes bucks can suffer just as much as doe's and i now firmly believe after getting my stud buck neutered after i decided the doe couldn't take breeding , that if you are not going to use a buck for breeding then get him done , its no life to be chasing your tail all the time with all that sexual energy going nowhere. Also if the doe doesn't like being pregnant for what ever reason she should be left well alone and the kindest thing to do is spay her to stop her from having phantoms.

no.3 - breeding from rabbits you knowfull well have dental problems or some kind of illness .

no.3 - breeding rabbits and then throwing the one's into the petshop that are to not showing standard , basically not finding a proper home for them or not caring .

no.4 - not giving the rabbits the love and attention they deserve and not letting them run about , i find it heartbreaking to see rabbits cooped up dying for attention and fuss , it makes me tearful just thinking about it.

no.5 - selling a pregnant doe :evil::evil::evil:. The moves stressful , god knows who there going to go to , unless of course its a close friend who you trust , but still the move can be enough for them to miscarry .


Ok there's some of what my view on a bad breeder is i'm going to give my beliefs of what a good breeder is .

no.1 - give your doe's and bucks a rest from breeding for at least two months , longer if the litter was paticulary difficult .

no.2 - make sure you carry out constant health checks and be very cautious with new rabbits coming in so as you don't put your own rabbits at risk.

no.3 - give your rabbits the love and attention they deserve .

no.4 - with your litters , the baby's who don't make the grade as showers make sure you give them to a home where you know they will look after them , personnaly i never sell baby's to any child under the age of 10 and i make sure all babies are tame before they go .

So there's my view on breeding as long as you care for and treat your rabbits with respect, then thats fine . The problem i find is , rescue's are so tight about where there rabbits go and just as any home i sold a baby to could sell them on any home that bought a rescue bun could sell them on as well . The truth is if my mum was to spend all her money on getting every baby neutered we would have no money to take rabbits in with problems who we have bred and as a breeder you need money on the side just incase . I have lost one bunny to breeding in 16 years of breeding , we've had various other problems but thats breeding for you. I love breeding when i get a show quality rabbit out of a litter , yes it is an achievment just as it is an achievment to find a rescue a new home . Thanks for listening to my opinions :D

[Char-x]

Responsible breeder = oxymoron

[Angie65]

However there are so many terrible breeders who will stick any two bunnies together, breed a doe til she is exhausted, sell to anyone, keep their "stock" in dreadful conditions and have hardly any knowledge on care.

This can be seen when someone comes on this or other forums asking a very basic question on care then states at the end of their post "..and I've been breeding for 3 years"



Yes, that always scares me. People come on often offering bad advise - backing it up by the fact they've been breeding for years:?

[twinks22]

Oxymoron , i've just found out what that means . Basically that means is that you think you can't breed and care for your rabbits health and wellbeing , thats out of order , sorry :(

[ZakuraRabbit]

Yes, that always scares me. People come on often offering bad advise - backing it up by the fact they've been breeding for years:?

Yeah that is pretty scary.
It can me quite easy to breed rabbits, just put two opposite bunnies together and let them have as many kits as they possibly can, feed them on a trash food mix and only come and look at them once a day when feeding an you can tecnically call yourself a "Breeder":evil:

I've heard of such a case with dogs in Norway. A woman bred mixbred dogs selling them for thousands of NOK (Norwegian Kroner) despite the fact that she didn't seem to pay much attention to her dogs other than feeding them.
Apparently among the tips the new owners got was
Never take on an adult dog as it would run away:shock:
Having a dog is easy, all you need is a food bowl and a lead:shock::censored:

Good serious breeders is one thing, but there are still some so called breeders out there who should not be allowed to keep pets at all, let alone breed and rehome babies:cry:

[Poppymum]

If you are a regular rabbit owner do you buy into breeders and the idea that a specific breed could be better suited to you?



I do think different breeds are better suited to different environments, and of course what people like in a breed. For instance, I dont like the feel of a Rex coat, and I dont like the Giant rabbits. But I do like Dwarf Lops, have a soft spot for Dutchies and Belgian Hares.

I think that some breeds are not suited to new owners ( such as Polish, and some Dutchies ) as my experience is that they cant be rather flightly and feisty. Whereas the DL's that I have owned, have been so gentle and soppy its unreal.
That could be because of the good breeding?

Very similar to dogs and horses IMO