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XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 10:25 PM
he is still very small, have been panacuring him for around 2 weeks now, but no signs of improvement yet, i emailed my cousin who is a vet nurse and she thinks he may have kidney problems, which could be a result of E.C or unrelated alltogether. she said i should get a blood test done to see, but expect to pay 40+.

He seems to be drinking more water but it is difficult to tell when they are a pair, plus with the varying heat changes its hard too.

has anyone else buns on here had kidney problems?

i miss my little man, hes so angry and nippy all the time, i miss my snuggle boy :(
i have this sinking feeling i am going to lose him. i love him so much it isnt fair.

charlie82
14-07-2008, 10:30 PM
What exactly is the vet doing for him other than the course of panacur? :?

If it is suspected EC it is not enough. Is he on any pain meds?



he is still very small, have been panacuring him for around 2 weeks now, but no signs of improvement yet, i emailed my cousin who is a vet nurse and she thinks he may have kidney problems, which could be a result of E.C or unrelated alltogether. she said i should get a blood test done to see, but expect to pay 40+.

He seems to be drinking more water but it is difficult to tell when they are a pair, plus with the varying heat changes its hard too.

has anyone else buns on here had kidney problems?

i miss my little man, hes so angry and nippy all the time, i miss my snuggle boy :(
i have this sinking feeling i am going to lose him. i love him so much it isnt fair.

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 10:32 PM
hes also on metacam and baytril.

the vet himself is useless, he doesnt think its E.C infact he thinks there is nothing wrong with him. im following my cousins advice.

theres a good bunny vet at a clinic in tiptree, but shes away for 10 days, and im waiting for her to get back, she will do a test hopefully.

Starlight
14-07-2008, 10:35 PM
I might have to get a blood test done for Ozzy he had been losing weight and drinking over 500mls a day (but he is in a pair so its hard to tell) I was quoted 100 for blood test :shock: He has started to improve, but they suspect possible kidney probs.

Loads of vibes for peanut xxx

Thea & Bobbin
14-07-2008, 10:37 PM
Awwwww Missy, I'm sorry PB is not really improving :( And it sounds very frustrating that your vet seems less than concerned :?

How long until this other vet gets back? Is it still 10 days? Are there any others in your area that are any good, or any people on here can recommend? :) I'm sure you agree that the best thing to do is get a second opinion, I'm just concerned that 10 days is too far away and would stifle his chances :(

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 10:38 PM
Hi SJ, not that I'm an expert at all but I just wondered if any of Peanut's unexplained weight loss was similar to my Picollo;s. My vet could not find an obvious cause. Though in Picollo's case he was still happy and eating in himself just weary and weight loss. Anyway he went in again for more bloods last week and we had results back on friday and he has leukemia.
I dont mean to scare you (though things are looking cautiously hopeful Picollo at the mo) but just to give perhaps another angle, or suggestion at another posible cause.
Sending loads of vibes for Peanut, I hope you get to the bottom of what's going on soon x x x

charlie82
14-07-2008, 10:38 PM
What a horrible situation to be in...your vet sure does sound useless....

I believe that Baytril is pretty much useless against EC so unless he is fighting an infection of some sort I am not sure why he was prescribed it. Obviously if PB has problems with his kidneys (not that you will know for sure until a blood test) you must err on the side of caution with your metacam dosage as this can impair the kidneys further.... has he been given any ranitidine?

Is he eating normally now?

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 10:43 PM
What a horrible situation to be in...your vet sure does sound useless....

I believe that Baytril is pretty much useless against EC so unless he is fighting an infection of some sort I am not sure why he was prescribed it. Obviously if PB has problems with his kidneys (not that you will know for sure until a blood test) you must err on the side of caution with your metacam dosage as this can impair the kidneys further.... has he been given any ranitidine?

Is he eating normally now?

he was originally given baytril as he has sore hocks. he shudnt have bcus of his breed but he does, he did have one sore hock, now its both.

Thea- if he gets bad i have my cousin on the other end of the phone who could see him at her vets if it was an emergency. it was ten days from tues last week, i enquired about their bunny vets when we took rocky there last week so its only another 3 or 4 days til shes back, aparantly shes excellent.


Fairy - i read your post actually and some of it did seem similar, what was picollos eating like? peanut still gobbles down everything in sight!

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 10:43 PM
BTW initially Picollo was drinking loads and weeing down his legs which was caused by a urine infection that cleared with treatment but this was 2ndary to the leukemia, as his immune function is very compromised cos of the cancer. So it could be kidney probs or just a 2ndary problem which is hiding the root cause x x

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 10:45 PM
Yes Picollo eats everything! He is constantly hungry. Emily says cos of the over active cells of the cancer they are using all the energy so thats why he's losing weight and his body isnt getting all he needs cos those nasty mutated cells are taking it all. :(

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 10:47 PM
Yes Picollo eats everything! He is constantly hungry. Emily says cos of the over active cells of the cancer they are using all the energy so thats why he's losing weight and his body isnt getting all he needs cos those nasty mutated cells are taking it all. :(

hmmmm interesting. did she say it was common? i mean i know theres always a chance but ive never heard of it before?

did he become grumpy? bcus peanut used to be so friendly and hes changed. hes always angry and grunting.

charlie82
14-07-2008, 10:51 PM
I imagine the grumpiness is probably stemming from the fact he is feeling unwell and possibly experiencing some discomfort. The sore hocks could possibly be a result of hind leg weakness and I would be more inclined to believe he is suffering from EC as opposed to Leukemia which is very rare.
Poor PB....I really hope this new vet can find out some answers for you! What dosage of metacam is he on?

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 10:51 PM
hmmmm interesting. did she say it was common? i mean i know theres always a chance but ive never heard of it before?

did he become grumpy? bcus peanut used to be so friendly and hes changed. hes always angry and grunting.

I dont know how common it is. Someone (cant remember who without looking :oops:) did post on my thread and said how they're not sure how many buns a ever diagnosed with it cos perhaps many vets just wouldnt take the time/trouble to look for it.

Picollo is being treated in a similar way I believe to how they treat dogs with it too. Peanut does sound similar, however Picollo didnt get grumpy, but all buns are different i guess. Picollo was the runt of the litter so vet said its poss its something tht has always been there but has just been triggered in some way. How old is peanut?

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 10:53 PM
I imagine the grumpiness is probably stemming from the fact he is feeling unwell and possibly experiencing some discomfort. The sore hocks could possibly be a result of hind leg weakness and I would be more inclined to believe he is suffering from EC as opposed to Leukemia which is very rare.
Poor PB....I really hope this new vet can find out some answers for you! What dosage of metacam is he on?

1ml a day

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 10:54 PM
I imagine the grumpiness is probably stemming from the fact he is feeling unwell and possibly experiencing some discomfort. The sore hocks could possibly be a result of hind leg weakness and I would be more inclined to believe he is suffering from EC as opposed to Leukemia which is very rare.
Poor PB....I really hope this new vet can find out some answers for you! What dosage of metacam is he on?

I woudnt say for one minute that PB has leukemia, I just thought the possibilty was worth mentioning, with Picollo too I would never have thought of leukemia and many people told me EC but my vet just wasnt convinced. Turns out she was right on this occasion. I know how upsetting it can be to watch your bun be ill and go downhill and you feel helpless to stop it, so I just though it was worth mentioning as its solved the mystery for us x

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 10:55 PM
I dont know how common it is. Someone (cant remember who without looking :oops:) did post on my thread and said how they're not sure how many buns a ever diagnosed with it cos perhaps many vets just wouldnt take the time/trouble to look for it.

Picollo is being treated in a similar way I believe to how they treat dogs with it too. Peanut does sound similar, however Picollo didnt get grumpy, but all buns are different i guess. Picollo was the runt of the litter so vet said its poss its something tht has always been there but has just been triggered in some way. How old is peanut?

hes two ish. i got him september 06 from PAH. ( i know!)

so hes gotta be two ish now bcus he would have 2 have been at least 8 weeks old. oh i just feel so helpless :(:(:(:(

im leaving for university in sept, and my parents are looking after the buns, they love them too, but they dont know him like me, they dont pick up on the little things, what if he dusnt get better in time? :(:(:(

my poor peanie :(

charlie82
14-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I woudnt say for one minute that PB has leukemia, I just thought the possibilty was worth mentioning, with Picollo too I would never have thought of leukemia and many people told me EC but my vet just wasnt convinced. Turns out she was right on this occasion. I know how upsetting it can be to watch your bun be ill and go downhill and you feel helpless to stop it, so I just though it was worth mentioning as its solved the mystery for us x


Oh I wasn't saying you were wrong for suggesting it :oops: I was just saying that I thought it would be more likely to be EC. I would have said the same if I were in your situation, and although it's horrific for you to be going through this if anything good can come out of it it is that you can make people more aware about it. I really hope Picollo can beat his illness and have longer with us :(x

charlie82
14-07-2008, 11:00 PM
1ml? what is his weight?

I think last time I read he was 1.7kg?? for a bun that size he should be on no more than 0.5 ml a day. x

It could well be the metacam attributing to the suspected kidney problems...xx

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 11:01 PM
hes two ish. i got him september 06 from PAH. ( i know!)

so hes gotta be two ish now bcus he would have 2 have been at least 8 weeks old. oh i just feel so helpless :(:(:(:(

im leaving for university in sept, and my parents are looking after the buns, they love them too, but they dont know him like me, they dont pick up on the little things, what if he dusnt get better in time? :(:(:(

my poor peanie :(

Only young still then. Picollo is young too, he'll be 2 on Oct 2nd. Your vet should be able to take a blood test and test for EC as well as checking for white blood cell count etc. All of this would give a clue as to what PB body thinks is wrong. And if you're paying for the blood test there's no reason why they can't test for EC as well as anything else at the same time. I'd just be worried too as you've had him on panacur for2 weeks with no improvement at all I'm sure you'd feel happier if you had him tested for EC which would prove concrete one way or the other. Poor Peanut and poor you, you must be so worried x x

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 11:04 PM
Oh I wasn't saying you were wrong for suggesting it :oops: I was just saying that I thought it would be more likely to be EC. I would have said the same if I were in your situation, and although it's horrific for you to be going through this if anything good can come out of it it is that you can make people more aware about it. I really hope Picollo can beat his illness and have longer with us :(x

Thanks hun. Its just I was so shocked too. I was expecting a phone call on friday telling me he was positive for EC, not that he had leukemia. I must admit I have spent much of this weekend in tears but the outlook for him is hmmmm so so, so hopefully we'll have longer yet.

Really the vet should be able to find if its EC or owt else from a PB blood test. Sometimes I think there's some vets that just dont realise how important our little guys are to us x

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 11:04 PM
1ml? what is his weight?

I think last time I read he was 1.7kg?? for a bun that size he should be on no more than 0.5 ml a day. x

It could well be the metacam attributing to the suspected kidney problems...xx

i dont know? hes only got one day left if the course anyway but its what the vet perscribed.

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 11:07 PM
Only young still then. Picollo is young too, he'll be 2 on Oct 2nd. Your vet should be able to take a blood test and test for EC as well as checking for white blood cell count etc. All of this would give a clue as to what PB body thinks is wrong. And if you're paying for the blood test there's no reason why they can't test for EC as well as anything else at the same time. I'd just be worried too as you've had him on panacur for2 weeks with no improvement at all I'm sure you'd feel happier if you had him tested for EC which would prove concrete one way or the other. Poor Peanut and poor you, you must be so worried x x

i am. since i got my buns, i havent lost one. I got peanut and jelly first, then domino and pebbles. theyre my four, i cnt lose one of them. i dont know what id do, i love them all equally for different reasons but theyre the four corners of my world, each one of them.

what would Jelly do without her boy? :(
she stays by his side all the time, grooming him and snuggling with him in their cardboard box. i just want him better.

its so annoying that nobody lives local to me, it sounds silly but i dont know any rabbity people, and i wish i had you guys here telling me what you think......

i just feel so helpless.

charlie82
14-07-2008, 11:09 PM
Vets who aren't familiar with the correct dosagae procedure sometimes get it wrong...It's not your fault it's theirs. I was in the same boat as you the other month with my bunny who's weight plummeted. The vet prescribed 1 ml of metacam a day and when I spoke to my friend who is a fab bunny specialist vet she told me he was being overdosed and told me how to work out the maximum dosage a bun is allowed depending on weight...obviously it all depends on what is wrong with the bunny too.

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Vets who aren't familiar with the correct dosagae procedure sometimes get it wrong...It's not your fault it's theirs. I was in the same boat as you the other month with my bunny who's weight plummeted. The vet prescribed 1 ml of metacam a day and when I spoke to my friend who is a fab bunny specialist vet she told me he was being overdosed and told me how to work out the maximum dosage a bun is allowed depending on weight...obviously it all depends on what is wrong with the bunny too.

oh no i hope i havent been given him too much :cry::cry::cry:

what if ive made him worse?


im so useless :(

charlie82
14-07-2008, 11:11 PM
I'm sorry you don't have anyone around you who knows what you are going through :(
I know how hard it is. I'm battling with one of my bunnies at the moment and every one around me has the attitude that it's 'just a bunny'. I am lucky in that I have my friend who is fab and I know would do her best for any of my buns... If I lived near you I would come and give you a hug...

You can have a virtual one instead. xx

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 11:13 PM
Oh dear :( sending hugs
Sorry I didnt follow the whole thing wit which vet you are using now, or is it that your vet is away/ Surely if you ask them to blood test for EC, and is there any reason why they won't? So long as you're paying and if there's no medical reason why not, I would have thought they would.
I'm not sure how the different bloods are taken etc as Picollo was tested first about 3/4 weeks ago for kidney and liver functin which was 100% and was only tested for EC and blood cell count etc last week. I dont know why the EC test is more expensive than the other (my vet told me it was anyway)
hmmmmm

sorry I'm just mind streaming out loud :oops:

I'm really thinking of you and sending vibes. x x x

charlie82
14-07-2008, 11:14 PM
oh no i hope i havent been given him too much :cry::cry::cry:

what if ive made him worse?


im so useless :(

you are NOT useless. Obviously we listen to what a vet tells us to do as we put all of our belief into them. It's annoying that if they really aren't rabbit savvy they should just be honest and say so. You are doing everything right by PB and doing your best for him. Don't worry, I overdosed my bun too and he is fine...infact I have overdosed a few following that vets advice and none have suffered because of it. I would just stop that dosage and wait until you see your new vet.

I am sorry if I mae you feel worse, I didn't mean to :( xxx

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 11:15 PM
I'm sorry you don't have anyone around you who knows what you are going through :(
I know how hard it is. I'm battling with one of my bunnies at the moment and every one around me has the attitude that it's 'just a bunny'. I am lucky in that I have my friend who is fab and I know would do her best for any of my buns... If I lived near you I would come and give you a hug...

You can have a virtual one instead. xx

Isn't it hard :( what is the matter with your ill bun? (sorry I should prob know :oops:) My neighbour knocked saturday am and I was a bit teary. When I told them why but we were going to try with the chemo, she did say wouldn't it be worth just PTS, then her hubby chipped in that he had a mallet in his shed I could use.

Oh hahaha bloomin ha. At least we have each other here who understand how much they mean to us x

XMissySJx
14-07-2008, 11:18 PM
course you didnt. im glad i have you guys to talk to.

i just want him to get better.

fairy - they would test for it if i stamped my feet and told them i wanted it done, but i want to go somewhere they care about peanut, otherwise i could be paying them to do someyhing they cnt b bothered to do, therefore they will only do the bare minumum.

my new vet will be back in a few days, and when she is, i will meet her and take peanut to see her, and hopefully things will get better.

its nice that you guys all care about him though :)

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 11:21 PM
I completely understand. If you dont have faith that the vet cares about what they're doing, you dont really have faith in their answers either.

I cant wait for your vet to be back either! I must admit i read your original post about PB but had hoped he was on the mend now x x

charlie82
14-07-2008, 11:22 PM
Isn't it hard :( what is the matter with your ill bun (sorry I should prob know :oops:) My neighbour knocked saturday am and I was a bit teary. When I told them why but we were tryng with the chemo, she did say wouldn't it be worth just PTS, then her hubby chipped in that he had a mallet in his shed I could use.

Oh hahaha bloomin ha. At least we have each other here who understand how much they mean to us x


It is hard :( My bunny has severe jaw abnormalities but isn't responding to treatment. :( he constantly seems sad and grumpy and I think is experiencing chronic pain. I watched him struggle with a blade of grass tonight and it just really upset me because I'm not sure who I am keeping him alive for...me or him :cry: My friend wants to x-ray him first and see the extent of the damage and try and work out a regime for him. Problem being he is a very stressy bun and just won't take metacam in any way shape of form and if he needs it every day giving it sub cut is not an option....so keeping him alive becomes an ethical issue. Since he has been able to eat soaked pellets he has put some weight back on but i'm just not sure what happens next for him.

I think your neighbours are very insensitive and I would like to hit him over the head with a mallet :? When I lost my bridge bunny Charlie my world fell apart, I was completely devastated. I lost her due to a vets negligence, so I try and be cautious about who sees my bunnies....it's just a sad fact that not many vets know what they are doing with bunnies...it sounds like you have a good caring vet. xx

Fairy13
14-07-2008, 11:30 PM
:cry: oh your poor bun :cry: How hard for you. You're doing your best for him too. But I understand i think how you feel. If i think about it too much it gives me quite a sick feeling of anxiety about the things you mentioned, like who are we treaing them for and what is the best route to take. Goodness. :? :( virtual hugs needed all round i think x x

charlie82
14-07-2008, 11:34 PM
:cry: oh your poor bun :cry: How hard for you. You're doing your best for him too. But I understand i think how you feel. If i think about it too much it gives me quite a sick feeling of anxiety about the things you mentioned, like who are we treaing them for and what is the best route to take. Goodness. :? :( virtual hugs needed all round i think x x


You are right. It does make me feel quite sick a lot of the time and guilty etc.... bunnies are just so complicated!! It's so hard to know how they are feeling, if they are in pain etc. The best we can do is give them the best life possible and hope that in our heart we will know what to do when the time comes. xxx

Leanne
15-07-2008, 12:21 AM
1ml? what is his weight?

I think last time I read he was 1.7kg?? for a bun that size he should be on no more than 0.5 ml a day. x

It could well be the metacam attributing to the suspected kidney problems...xx

He could be on the Cat metacam ;) That dose sounds fine for a rabbit if it is the cat strength one at 0.5mg/ml with the max dose being 0.6mg/kg for a rabbit :)

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 10:25 AM
He could be on the Cat metacam ;) That dose sounds fine for a rabbit if it is the cat strength one at 0.5mg/ml with the max dose being 0.6mg/kg for a rabbit :)

no its the dog one. if i phone up and complain to my vet there not gunna listen to me are they? there just gunna say thats right.


oh i just want him to be better :cry:

charlie82
15-07-2008, 10:28 AM
I should have asked whether or not it was the cat version!

Your vet will probably insist that they are right. What I would do is wait until you visit your new vet, ask her what the dosage procedure is and collect data before putting a written complaint in at your other vets. It's always best to build up a case before complaining as they quickly put you down otherwise and always find a way to cover themselves. Make sure your new vet asks for a full history of PB treatment.

Have you asked Jane for some advice? :)x

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 10:39 AM
I should have asked whether or not it was the cat version!

Your vet will probably insist that they are right. What I would do is wait until you visit your new vet, ask her what the dosage procedure is and collect data before putting a written complaint in at your other vets. It's always best to build up a case before complaining as they quickly put you down otherwise and always find a way to cover themselves. Make sure your new vet asks for a full history of PB treatment.

Have you asked Jane for some advice? :)x

in regards to his hocks yeh, but ive been speaking to sooz more about the E.C side of things, but tbh i think im just gunna go round in circles until my vet does a test.

been to see him this morning and hes hiding in a box :( he grunts at me whenever i go near him. hes okay though, put some cabbage in there and hes scoffing it down.... and he is pooping etc.

it hasnt hit me that i could lose him until last night.hes my boy :(:( i cnt lose peanut, i just cant.

SOAD
15-07-2008, 10:52 AM
Awwwwwwww I really hope he gets better.

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 11:37 AM
Awwwwwwww I really hope he gets better.

so do i. i just gave him a little bit of cucumber n he jumped on my lap for some more :love:. i just love him so much. i cnt even contemplate the worst scenario.

charlie82
15-07-2008, 11:41 AM
I know how you feel.:(
I wouldn't take the grunting as a personal thing...he is probably just not feeling well and at the moment all he relates you to is the person that gives him meds. Thumper no longer lets me near him, he runs away from me because he has lost his trust in me :cry:

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 11:43 AM
I know how you feel.:(
I wouldn't take the grunting as a personal thing...he is probably just not feeling well and at the moment all he relates you to is the person that gives him meds. Thumper no longer lets me near him, he runs away from me because he has lost his trust in me :cry:

i know, i spent all this time gaining his trust and its gone. i mean if i sit in there with them, he does come up to me eventually, but only to take a treat, he doesnt really trust me, you can see it.

i know its bcus im the one giving him the meds but it dusnt make it hurt any less :( i dont want him to feel frightened

charlie82
15-07-2008, 11:47 AM
Thumper does the same thing....he grabs a treat off me then runs away.

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 11:48 AM
Thumper does the same thing....he grabs a treat off me then runs away.

at least they like us enough for treats :lol:

charlie82
15-07-2008, 11:55 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes you are right!

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 11:59 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes you are right!

the day we get rejected for a treat...well... i dont know what il do lol!

Thea & Bobbin
15-07-2008, 12:01 PM
Just wanted to say that I care about Peanut and you :D and I really hope your new vet can help him, she will certainly care more than your old one :? Is she very far away? Will you be able to transfer all your buns to her on a regular basis?

HUGS xx

charlie82
15-07-2008, 12:03 PM
me neither....:?

My vet has already told me she thinks thumps is on borrowed time :( All I can do is get him the best care and make sure he is comfortable :(

XMissySJx
15-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Just wanted to say that I care about Peanut and you :D and I really hope your new vet can help him, she will certainly care more than your old one :? Is she very far away? Will you be able to transfer all your buns to her on a regular basis?

HUGS xx

well the vet i see now is 45 minutes away, my new one is five.

its complicated, basically i HATED tiptree vets, bcus once when bonnie was 11 she got pnemonia, and we said we wasnt sure about what to do. 11 is old for a cavalier, and we wasnt sure if we should push her through this. the vet said ' well we can treat her and then rehome her, we often do that'

i was...16 and i nearly came close to actually smacking her one! i had to be taken out the room. i felt so insulted, that she thought if i decided that bonnie should be let go, due ot age and sickness, it meant they could treat her and then rehome her. ever since then i have HATED that surger with a passion. they have never treated bonnie since then. However, that vet is no longer there, and the overall practice is good.

I originally went to Best friends, the 45 min journey vet, bcus they did neutering for 35, and everywhere else near me was 60-70. And the tiptree vet was charging 80 for a male.

but considering all my pets are now neutured, i think i will switch them all to tiptree vets if i get a good response with peanuts condition.

It is closer, so it would be easier too.

I just love the fact that everyone here cares about him, i know if anything happened to him you guys would be almost as devastated as me, and that in some way, comforts me.

Becki xX
15-07-2008, 01:10 PM
Its hard when the vet doesn't seem to be pulling his/her weight, but something I sometimes have to make myself remember is that they don't know that rabbit like their owner does. Peanut is obviously showing weight loss as a symptom, but its probably quite hard to be a vet faced with a bun thats loosing weight...its like, theres probably 100 + possible reasons. Its like when you take a photo and they are poorly, they can look completely fine to everyone but yourself. Try not to think about the worst case scenario, your boy will pick up on that & it wont help you either. Hope Peanut is better soon :) X

suzy_d
15-07-2008, 03:25 PM
aww im sorry to hear about little peanie! I hope hes feeling better soon!

Hugs xx

Deelove
15-07-2008, 04:20 PM
Sorry Mr. Butter isn't feeling any better. :(