is it time to say goodbye??......

hi all....i put a thread on here a few days ago about my 7 yo lop, pooh bear.

she is suffering from enteritis and kidney failure...has been for a couple of weeks now.also because shes not eating properly her teeth on one side have become longer and will need a trim.
shes on baytril ,fibreplex ,pineapple juice and painkillers.
shes only eating crumbs of a digestive biccies ,a tiny bit of hay and greens when they have been cut up into minute pieces.
yesterday she lost her balance alot which we have kind of put down to not eating enough.shes lost 0.30 kg in a couple of weeks.
we are taking her to the vet asap in the morning (its 4am here)
i dont know wether to try something else or to let her go..
i know its hard for you to help me come to a decision as you cant see her, but the hardly eating , long teeth, enteritis ,and kidney failure are making a bad mix.we could take her to the rabbit specialist in watford which is 2 hr s from here each way,so he could file her teeth whilst she is awake rather than let the vet here do it under anaesthetic.(which is another risk)
we love her so much but i dont know if i can watch her get worse and let her suffer anymore.my husband is the optomist and says see what the vet says ,but they are not with her every day...
ANY VIEWS GRATEFULLY RECEIVED AS IM REALLY WORRIED ABOUT WHAT TO DO
kellie

It's a very difficult thing to advise on and a terrible position to be in Is that Guy Carter in Watford? I had a sick rabbit of mine done without anaesthetic once and there was a big difference in recovery compared with what you'd expect with an anaesthetic. There's no grogginess etc. so with a painkiller (for any sores in the mouth) they are much more inclined to eat quickly.

It's possible her gut issues are related to teeth problems - tiny spurs can make them reluctant to eat and then when they don't eat it gets worse which makes a vicious circle. So, it's possible that 'fixing' her teeth will improve her eating and help her put on weight.

Of course that doesn't fix the under lying kidney failure I think that's the thing I would be discussing with the vet. If you get her over the teeth/gut issues what would her quality of life and prognosis be with the kidney failure. Is this something that can be managed.

Perhaps give the rabbit expert a call and have a quick chat. Obviously they can't give you firm answers either but they may be able to give you more information to make your decision with.

For food, you could try porridge (oats mixed with water) or mushing up pellets either with the porridge or with finely grated or pureed carrot/apple/greens. That can tempt dental bunnies.

Tamsin

thanks tamsin...ive been thinking alot about her quality of life ..i dont know if putting her through another teeth filing plus a 2 hr each way journey is a god idea.
shes never been a sickly rabbit, never had any problems until a year or so ago when her kidney problems started.she had a tooth filed down at guys about 2-3 weeks ago.i know her not eating is probably due to that but she didnt improve last time she had that done...it takes her 2 days to get over a vet trip (shes had 2 trips in as many days).shes not herself and i know we all act different when we are ill but i do get the impression shes had enough..
i cantbear the thought of her not being around..but im determined not to let her suffer...
ive literally tried everything to get her to eat..hand feeding, porridge oats ,baby food, everything people have suggested before on previous posts.
her fav thing is green beans and digestive biccies..but shes living on bare minimum of this to survive.

Fix the teeth first. That's the easiest thing to fix and it's doable. If she never been a sick rabbit, then her genes is strong.

Look at the prognosis of the kidney and intestine and chat w/ your vet specialist and make a decision. Is it both side of the kidney fail or 1 side?

Many human and animal can live on 1 side.

One of my bridge bunny, Little Happy, was suffering from kidney failure, she didn't die due to that, but I notice the cause is that most rabbit like to sit on 1 spot for a long time, as in hours. So the right thing to do is whenever you see them sit on 1 spot, every 2 hr. or so, grab them to their urine spot, and hope that they'll do their business.

My last bun Goofball, when I done the above, quite often, she try to dip some urine out.

thanks...have been up all night wondering whats best to do for her...
shes all skin and bone (literally wasting away) hasnt poo d in a week at all..
is falling over all the time , shes had enough i can tell...
i want to let her go with some dignity,
im taking her to the vet later..will see his opinion but i think when he sees her he will agree..
will be going to the local vet though as shes too weak for a 5 hr round trip.
also if he wants to keep her in ,she would die in there as she isnt used to vets at all..

Hi Kellie

I'm so sorry you're in this position and like Tamsin said it is almost impossible for us to give advise as at the end of the day you have to live with the decision. All I can say is I had a rabbit in a very similar situation not long ago.

Shayla had a misaligned jaw on one side and had regular dentals - we have a local vet that does them without GA which was a real blessing. But she also had kidney problems, we believe related to earlier untreated ec. At the end of May she stopped eating and became very quiet and we were thinking maybe her teeeth were playing up again but she hadn't long had them clipped. We took her to see a specilaist vet and she found that the teeth had become infected at the gums but she also did a blood test and it seemed the culmination of the teeth and previous damage had become too much. Shayla had gone into shock and her urea levels were sky high and she was dehydrated.

The long and short of it was that the mixture of the teeth, kidneys, dehydration and shock meant that treatment was difficult and the vet felt she wouldn't have a good quality of life even if she did make it through the next 48hours (which was doubtful) and we made the decision to let her go. I know how hard it is to make this choice (I'm trying not to cry as I write this) but at the end of the day you have to do what is right for your bunny and put their needs above your own. Thinking of you at this time.x

Oh, what a difficult decision for you. I went through this with Bobby (he has a jaw abcess) about a month ago. I really thought it was the end for him, as he had got thin, and had lost the spark in his eye.
However, the abcess was lanced again (no anaesthetic) and he is great now, well for the time being anyway.
I think your bun will let you know. My previous bunnies I have known by their eyes when they have had enough.
Good luck at the vets, and I hope they help you to make the right decision for your bun.

thanks again for the replies...i certainly see in her face that enough is enough..when you put together all the things wrong with her,you know its too much for her to deal with.
even if we did fix her teeth? problem the enteritis,poo situation etc etc she would still have kidney failure...is it worth putting her through so much when shes already on borrowed time??

Sending you huge hugs. It's so difficult. If you think she's had enough, maybe it's time to say goodbye, but don't give up hope until you've seen the vet who may be able to try something different.

sending you vibes for you and your bun. i know this might be a bit off the wall and im no expert but i think kidney failure and loss of balence/eating can be caused by ec...has she ben pannacured(sp?) could you try this a s a last attempt? if it did work it would be wonderful. i thinkk if her teeth are giving her pain then thwey should be done but i dont think hte long car journey would help her. i am sorry if my advice is not brilliant but i hope she pulls through if her quality of l ife is affected severly then maybe it is time but you will know from how she is if she is fighting or if its time to let go mainly you dont want ehr in pain whatever is happening x

I really feel for you, hope you manage to come to a decision, its not one that i would like to have to make.....tough call when you love your baby so much

I am thinking of you, it is such a hard decision to make but you know your bunny best and will know when she has had enough.

One of the cats went into kidney failure two years ago and we tried treating him for two weeks. They were horrendous weeks as I agonised whether to carry on treating him and give him a chance or to let him go. All the life had gone out of him and it was terrible to see. Once I made the decision to let him go it was incredibly upsetting but also a relief, it that makes sense. The vet came out to the house to put him to sleep as Moses so hated car trips.

I feel for you, thinking of you today.
Vanessa xx

hi...i think her gut is shutting down now...have given her max dose of metacam for the pain,its helped a tiny bit.my husband is coming home from work so that we can go asap.i know the vet will tell me that there is probably things we can do ,but we both know its prolonging the agony.
there is no way she would be able to survive the trip to watford or an anaesthetic,..you can see her stomach moving around due to the gas inside.
ive put her in a littertray with vet bed underneath her and a towel around the edge.shes stopped eatting and now, drinking.still no poo and her bum is soaking wet with urine.i know she feels very undignified and she hates that.
have had to go into work this morning for 2 hrs and had to sort out the others (buns,guineas,cats,fish,gerbils and hamster!) as i know we are taking her to the crem after the vet.i hate this part of having fuzzy ones...

I'm sorry

Im so sorry.Im thinking of you at this hard time.Big hugs coming your way.

i am so sorry and i have been through this myself this year and it is the hardest thing i have ever done but I found the strength for my baby as will you.
thinking of you..

i too am soo sorry for you, but feel rest assured it will be for the best, you have given her your love and time, and a very good life, take comfort that you have done all you could, my cat who was never ever ill was poisioned and there was no way he would of lived, so i gave him lots of fuss and love tried to give him his favorite treat and said goodbye and took him to the crem, love leaves a memory no one can steal you will never forget hun she will be pain free

so sorry at least she is loved by you up until the end. xx

Thinking about you all. Your post just goes to show how much you love and care for your bun, you will know when the time comes.

Aw, hun. How awful for you. Im sure you will do whats best for your gorgeous bunny,
sending you love and strength sweetheart xxxxx