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View Full Version : Does a breeder have the right



Tonyh
27-06-2008, 10:18 AM
Hi all,
I bought an adult mini lop recently from a show breeder. Now here is the situation the bun was pregnant but the breeder didnt know until she handled her, 5 seconds after finding out sold her to me for 20. I have had this bun for a week now. Now she has kindled she is demanding that i give her a doe from the litter.
I have no problems giving her a doe as i know its going o a good home but will she really have a right to demand instead of just asking politley like any normal person would.

Regards
Tony

SOAD
27-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Please, please, please do not give her one of your buns, the bun will have a solitary life as a breeding machine, there are over 33000 rabbits in rescue and this breeder doesn't sound responsible and is just adding to the problem. She has no right what so ever to your buns.

kayjay
27-06-2008, 10:23 AM
Firstly I think it's appalling she sold you a pregnant doe who kindled within a week - surely a breeder should know if a doe has been mated?

Secondly I don't think she has any right whatsoever to demand you hand over a baby, she sold her to you and at that point relinquished any rights over the doe or the babies. You would be giving a doe to her to be used to breed further babies and personally I wouldn't do that.

*Spider*
27-06-2008, 10:24 AM
10000000000000% behind SOAD.
But we do not know the full circumstances of the situations.
Say to the breeder that the rabbits are now fully yours and he has no right to demand one of you, he'll have to pay.. only say that if you think it'll be better off there.
But i've only said that off what you've said and personally i'd tell him to **** off!

minirex
27-06-2008, 10:24 AM
Please, please, please do not give her one of your buns, the bun will have a solitary life as a breeding machine, there are over 33000 rabbits in rescue and this breeder doesn't sound responsible and is just adding to the problem. She has no right what so ever to your buns.

Totally agree with this. She doesn't want the doe as a family pet but as a breeding machine :(

Bunny Buddy
27-06-2008, 10:26 AM
Apart from the moral issue of 'breeding machine' which I agree entirely with, I would say unless some sort of terms and conditions were imposed the breeder has no right to have a doe from the litter. I find it quite cheeky that they want the doe giving as well. You paid for the rabbit you got from them, you've done the hard work with the kits.

But no, please think carefully before giving one back, you have no obligation to do so:(

abbymarysmokey
27-06-2008, 10:35 AM
Any breeder who would sell a doe so close to giving birth isn't a good breeder (or a good human being!). I doubt any bunny you gave her would have a good life :(

raine
27-06-2008, 10:56 AM
The "goods" were sold as seen, she can't demand "goods" which are no longer hers. Thats the way I see it.

Even if she said it was discussed at the time, if there was no legal contract saying you would return one bunny, I wouldn't. Her only recourse would be the small claims court and without a signed document she would lose. Tree has said that this bunny will be bred from and do you not want a loving pet home for the offspring of your bunny, where she is loved and gets lots of attention.

Azraelm
27-06-2008, 10:57 AM
I agree with everyone else- she has no right over the baby, please do not let her have one. You can advertise the babies on Rabbit Rehome when the time comes.

MaxiandScottandbuns
27-06-2008, 11:11 AM
Agree with the other-please do not hand over that little one!

Thea & Bobbin
27-06-2008, 12:01 PM
:shock:

She sold you the doe and the kits she was carrying, she has no right :evil:

If you can't keep the kits, perhaps you can advertise them on RU and RR so that they can find loving homes as pets, not a breeding machine as SOAD has mentioned :)

Kylie541
27-06-2008, 12:04 PM
No legally she has no right. The bunny was sold as seen and you have already completed the contract before she realised the bunny was pregnant. I would tell her you have sort legal advice and have been told she has no legal right to the babies therefore you feel it in the best interests of the doe to rehome the babies yourself and it's not open for discussion. :evil:

Tonyh
27-06-2008, 12:10 PM
Thank you everyone for letting me know what my options are and they wont be getting one. I took these rabbits on as pets and thats exactly how i want these kits to be brought up. I will be keeping two of them as it would be selfish of me to keep them all due to space IE amount of room they would have to roam freely. When its time for them to g i will be making sure they are going to good homes they will always have the option of briging them back to me aswell so they in theory would never be dumped (even if i had to pay to get them back). I will place the remaining three on here to ensure they find the best of habitats.

Once again Thanks to everyone who gave me two minutes to ensure i could do the right thing by the rabbits and not by someone elses GREEED.

Regards
Tony

WalnutEarth626
27-06-2008, 12:47 PM
Did you buy the doe as a pet or for breeding?

Its a fairly typical exchange between breeders, 'I'll sell you a mated doe but I want a baby back' or 'I'll mate your doe for you but I want a baby back in return'. Its in lieu of the 'stud fee' as it were. So you giving a baby back is a fairly expected response, but she has no right to demand it.

However if she was sold to you as a pet then she has no right to demand anything from you at all. Has she actually 'demanded' though - thats quite a strong term? Perhaps she's just said 'I'll have a baby back' which to me would be meant as 'If you don't want them all I'll have one back'.

Did you know she was pregnant before you bought her? And you were happy to buy her knowing she was pregnant? If you weren't happy and this doe was thrust upon you then may I suggest you report the breeder to the Investigations Committee of the BRC - at the very least they'll send her a letter which may make her rethink her rehoming policies.

Tonyh
27-06-2008, 01:08 PM
Did you buy the doe as a pet or for breeding?

Its a fairly typical exchange between breeders, 'I'll sell you a mated doe but I want a baby back' or 'I'll mate your doe for you but I want a baby back in return'. Its in lieu of the 'stud fee' as it were. So you giving a baby back is a fairly expected response, but she has no right to demand it.

However if she was sold to you as a pet then she has no right to demand anything from you at all. Has she actually 'demanded' though - thats quite a strong term? Perhaps she's just said 'I'll have a baby back' which to me would be meant as 'If you don't want them all I'll have one back'.

Did you know she was pregnant before you bought her? And you were happy to buy her knowing she was pregnant? If you weren't happy and this doe was thrust upon you then may I suggest you report the breeder to the Investigations Committee of the BRC - at the very least they'll send her a letter which may make her rethink her rehoming policies.

Hi,
She was bought as a pet i only went for one rabbit but fell in love with the doe aswell. It wasnt until the breeder handled the doe that she knew she was pregnant (the doe was actually at least 21-24 days pregnant as i had her exactly 1 week before she kindled) which in my opinion is disgusting as the breeder musnt have handled the rabbit at all so shows its been left more than likley for that amount of time and therefor hasnt even had the correct amount of feed for a pregnant doe. The breeder still sold me the doe with no mention of wanting any of the kits. The actual wording of the sentance was you owe me a doe see you in eight weeks bye. Now i would say that sentance is both ignorant and demanding. They didnt even ask how the doe was or anything about the kits just that sentance and nothing else. I dont think the situation warrents the BRC intervention but i personally want these kits in a home where they will be looked after and loved and that is one reason i made the post on the site to see whether i could do that without fear of being sued or anything else.

hope that makes the situation a bit clearer

Tony

Deelove
27-06-2008, 01:16 PM
I don't think you have any obligation to her at all. If you aren't comfortable giving her a kit then don't. :)

Raven Rexs
27-06-2008, 02:51 PM
i have to agree that once you handed over the money and the breeder accepted it then the bun and kits are yours end of story, is they want one they would have to buy it and thats only if you dont want to keep it yourself, there is no obligation of HAVING to give one to them unless other arrangements were made at the point of sale. i have to agree though selling a doe while pregnant and knowing it was pregnant is most irresponsiable!

fluffiebunnie
27-06-2008, 03:18 PM
She sold the bunny knowing full well she was pregnant. She sold the bunny and the kits for 20 as far as I am concerned.

She cant demand back a kit that you have already paid for (albeit that you hadnt met at that precise moment).

She sounds nasty.

WalnutEarth626
27-06-2008, 04:12 PM
Hi,
She was bought as a pet i only went for one rabbit but fell in love with the doe aswell. It wasnt until the breeder handled the doe that she knew she was pregnant (the doe was actually at least 21-24 days pregnant as i had her exactly 1 week before she kindled) which in my opinion is disgusting as the breeder musnt have handled the rabbit at all so shows its been left more than likley for that amount of time and therefor hasnt even had the correct amount of feed for a pregnant doe. The breeder still sold me the doe with no mention of wanting any of the kits. The actual wording of the sentance was you owe me a doe see you in eight weeks bye. Now i would say that sentance is both ignorant and demanding. They didnt even ask how the doe was or anything about the kits just that sentance and nothing else. I dont think the situation warrents the BRC intervention but i personally want these kits in a home where they will be looked after and loved and that is one reason i made the post on the site to see whether i could do that without fear of being sued or anything else.

hope that makes the situation a bit clearer

Tony

Sorry although its not really relevant pregnant does should NOT have their feed increased, it can make them gain weight and mean they have problems delivering. Its a common misconception that pregnant need more food but increasing their rations can actually do more harm than good.

SOAD
27-06-2008, 04:25 PM
Thank goodness you've got bunny and babies Tony. :D

Stator
27-06-2008, 04:33 PM
Just to confirm, did she say the "you owe me a doe" sentance AFTER you had taken the rabbit and paid for it?

kimd6200
27-06-2008, 04:45 PM
personally i dont think she has any rights.years ago i brought a rabbit who i knew was preg:oops:n she never asked for a baby just that they went to good homes.if she starts mithering you just say you lost the whole litter or something.xx

Tonyh
27-06-2008, 05:05 PM
Just to confirm, did she say the "you owe me a doe" sentance AFTER you had taken the rabbit and paid for it?

Hi,
Yes it was said after i had took the rabbit home.

Turn of events was as follows.

1, I went to pick up a French Lop Buck
2, ended up buying the mini lop aswell
3, The breeder knew the doe was pregnant BUT only because she handled to get her out of the hutch (At this stage she was three weeks gone)
4, At no time then or before the birth was a kit requested.
5, I inform the breeder she had kits and get a call back saying you owe me a doe see you in eight weeks bye

and that is basically what happened

Tony

SOAD
27-06-2008, 05:08 PM
Even if it was before, it doesn't matter, just tell her to do one.

Mia & Honey
27-06-2008, 05:26 PM
Tonyh, you owe her nothing. If there was no written or verbal arrangement/contract before you handed the money over im sure she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Steph
27-06-2008, 06:18 PM
Even if it was before, it doesn't matter, just tell her to do one.

Agreed :thumb::thumb:

twinks22
27-06-2008, 06:18 PM
She has absolutely no right to demand a doe out the litter there was no arrangement for that she's completely screwed you over unfortunately. I'd be interested to know who this breeder is , not to cause trouble just genarally wondering if you don't want to post it on the forum you could pm me and if you don't want to tell me thats fine, i breed myself so i know a lot of breeders:wave:.

ecudc
27-06-2008, 06:23 PM
unless there was a contract between you and breeder before you paid for doe she has no right to demand a kit back.

Tamsin
27-06-2008, 06:27 PM
No names on the forum please :)

March Hare
27-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Everyone is completely right.....this woman has NO right WHATSOEVER to demand one of the kits from you. When you bought the doe, you bought her unborn kits as well......end of. She has NO claim on ANY of the kits once they are born. You bought the doe in her pregnant state, there was NO agreement beforehand, and the kits legally belong to you. And she can't be a very good breeder if she didn't a.) know that the doe had been bred (how in the world would that happen without her knowing or at least realising there was a possiblilty??? :?) and b.) doesn't handle her bunnies enough to REALISE that she was pregnant before you bought her. :roll:

There is no WAY that I would hand one of those kits over to her.....free, paid for, or otherwise. I would tell her to take a flying ****. :evil: :evil: (I meant 'leap'.....really !!!!! :p ;))

Tonyh
27-06-2008, 08:01 PM
Hi everyone,
I have informed the breeder that they wont be getting a kit they wasnt too happy but i did mention that before i came to the decision i consulted the very caring people here and i have directed them to this forum to see for themselves that the comments here are unanimus (or however you spell that lol) and that would also give them a chance to have there say if they honestly think they are right in demanding one.

Thank you everyone for your posts

Tony

unalakey
27-06-2008, 08:15 PM
Well done:D

AllForTheAnimals
27-06-2008, 08:32 PM
I know it's kinda late but I don't think breeders have a right to that (speaking of myself also;)) I think if you or anyone is going to breed they should do it responsibly. ethnically and humanely I would tell her off if she did that to me:mrgreen:

Tonyh
28-06-2008, 12:40 AM
Hi everyone,
i have directed them to this forum to see for themselves that the comments here are unanimus (or however you spell that lol) and that would also give them a chance to have there say if they honestly think they are right in demanding one.

Thank you everyone for your posts

Tony

Well there is still time but i think its safe to say they didnt want to publically comment on there actions to defend themselves.

I wish I had found this site a few months back as it would have really been nice to have so many people in one place that have the feelings you all do for rabbits.

Thanks
Tony