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Accidental bonding! - Questions

gemmam

Alpha Buck
Hi :wave:, I am new here although have read a lot of good advice whilst lurking! Have a few questions if anyone can help, sorry if this gets a bit long-winded.

Background is I had two pairs of rabbits, one brother/sister pair of giants, one bonded pair of dwarf (I think) bunnies. Sadly one of each pair has now died so I am left with two singles, a neutered male and an unspayed giant female. I wondered how these two would get on but when I first introduced them a few weeks ago they really went for each other so I separated them and didn' really make any serious attempt at bonding. Since then, the male has been in his pen in the garden with the female free range in the same garden most days, so they have obviously spent a lot of time near each other but separated by the pen.

Finally getting to the point! Today Dylan got out of his pen and was free in the garden with Jasmine! I didn't see them initially meet but there were a few bits of fur scattered about. By the time I found out, they were lying together so I watched to see how they were getting on. Every so often the little male seemed to startle and sprint off, and Jasmine would chase him until eventually he sat down somewhere then she sat with himn. she definitely seemed more friendly whilst he didn't seem as confident, but this may also because she is used to being free in the whole garden so the space might have been daunting for him. Anyway, I separated them but now wonder if it would be a good idea to pair them properly? Tonight I put them back together briefly and whilst they didn't look the best of friends, they tolerated each other well.

Here are all my questions/concerns, please offer any thoughts you might have!

Should I try to bond them, are all rabbits happiest in pairs if possible? If I do this then he will have to have free range access too as I don't want her to lose that. She is a big bun and a pen isn't much good for her, but whereas she is trained to come back to hutch at night, he isn't and could be difficult to catch!

They would have to move into her hutch, is this a problem as not neutral?

As they will be apart tonight, would it mean going back to square one with the bond as the earliest I could try would be next week?

Does the size difference and/or the fact that she is not spayed make any difference? I am concerned she might get too frisky and hurt him but don't want to spay her now due to age.

Is there another way to bond them rather than the all or nothing neutral territory thing? Could I continue putting them together a bit each day?

Finally (for now!), how do you know when rabbits are fully bonded enough to trust them in same hutch?
 
:wave: Hiya, I'm just gonna pop in what I think in blue, but it is just my opinion hopefully you'll hear other poeple's ideas too x

Here are all my questions/concerns, please offer any thoughts you might have!

Should I try to bond them, are all rabbits happiest in pairs if possible? If I do this then he will have to have free range access too as I don't want her to lose that. She is a big bun and a pen isn't much good for her, but whereas she is trained to come back to hutch at night, he isn't and could be difficult to catch!

I Believe that bunnies are happier with a friend of their own kind so I personally would have a go bonding them. How did you teach her to come home at night? Cos however you did I would have thought you could teach him too. I think alot of people's buns are trained to come home for dinner! :D They'd just follow the greens!

They would have to move into her hutch, is this a problem as not neutral?

You would have to carry out the bonding in a neutral place (possibly bathroom?) and they could then both go to live in her hutch but it would need to be thoroughly cleaned first (white vinegar is good at getting rid of bunny smells) and probably best to replace any toys etc she had with new neutral ones, move stuff around a bit and clean bowls etc too.

As they will be apart tonight, would it mean going back to square one with the bond as the earliest I could try would be next week?

Yes it would mean going back to square one. I think some people (me included) set aside a weekend of not leaving the house and attempt a bond then. Last time I bonded my 5 they were in the kitchen that none had access to before and a member of the family either watched or was in earshot 24/7 for about 3 days. I slept downstairs too for 2 or 3 nights before we put them in their new accomodation.

Does the size difference and/or the fact that she is not spayed make any difference? I am concerned she might get too frisky and hurt him but don't want to spay her now due to age.

I think there are people here that have all sorts of different sizes and breeds bonded together. I guess you'd just have to watch him carefully as she could inadvertently hurt him without meaning to :? I'm unsure on that.
Also there are people here i believe that have bonded neutered but unspeyed pairs. Depends on the doe's personality I guess. How old is she?


Is there another way to bond them rather than the all or nothing neutral territory thing? Could I continue putting them together a bit each day?

Um, people do and have bonded bit by bit day by day i think, though I'm a fan of the all in devote a few whole days to it. However whatever method you use, you must do the neutral territory thing else you're asking for trouble

Finally (for now!), how do you know when rabbits are fully bonded enough to trust them in same hutch?

Hmmm another difficult one. I've been lucky and all my bonds have been easy, there has been mutual grooming after 2 days and sometimes even a few hours. I think you just sort of can see that they are comfortable with each other. Though some bonds take weeks to really become so that the bunnies love, rather than just tolerate each other. Probably some of the chasing and fur pulling you've seen with your two simply may be because of the territory thing and if you were to devote the time (and cleaning!) to it you could well have a happy pair.
The one thing I really would stress is that the neutral territory both where the bonding takes place, also in the accomodation they are then housed permanently in are either new of fully scrubbed, disinfected and desmelled!
Gosh haven't I gone on!! Hope some of that's helpful x x
 
Thank you so much for the reply! i have let them together again this morning despite being apart for the night (sorry -hadn't read your advice before then). Anyway, they sat together straight away, no aggression at all and I have seen her grooming him although not the other way round as yet. She also keeps flopping on her back next to him, so cute! Do I need to see him returning the grooming before they are really bonded? He generally seems a little daunted but is a more timid bun anyway, whereas my girl is obviously in love!

Because they have got on this well, do you think I could bypass the neutral territory thing or would I still need to do this? I am thinking next week I could clean her hutch as suggested, also maybe move it to a new part of the garden to make it less 'hers' and then try them in it? On the other hand I am half wondering whether to continue to house them separately and let them together during the day, is this a bad idea?

She is 4 (oldish for a giant), does this mean she will be less hormonal? I haven't seen any humping but she does keep climbing over him etc and he is so much smaller than her. He is 6 by the way,
 
:wave: Aw does sound very much like she is in love!!
If you moved the hutch, which may not be a bad idea, you'd still need to de-scent it all thoroughly. You wouldnt want her realising thats its her territory she's in if you shut them in the hutch together without cleansing it as I guess with no where to run to she could do him an injury if she suddenyl took exception to him being there. orry i just reread and noticed you said you would de scent it all :oops: sorry i'm a lemon!
Some people do bond over a period of a few days and even weeks at a few hours a day and if they seem happy then maybe keep on with the same. However I dont think I'd keep putting them together for a few hours every day long term as issues could arise in future.
In our pairs there are sometimes 1 that does all the grooming while the other rarely grooms back. Thats fine, I think it just means the one doing the grooming is the subservient one, i think! :? :lol:
I honestly couldnt tell you about them getting on if she's unspeyed as all of ours have been, and in a same sex doe pair and a neutered male unpspeyed doe pair there was issues with both of bullying so we just had them all done. Doesn't mean thats necessarily the case with yours though. I think you'd just have to keep an eye out and make sure he is eating fine and as active as usual and not acting depressed or scared of her!!!
Certainly does sound like she's smitten though! She must miss the bunny company.
Good luck x x
 
Just an update, they are fully bonded and now living together in jasmine's hutch! They bonded really quickly once in the pen in a neutral place and I have seen plenty of mutual grooming (although a little bit of humping too still). I am really pleased I went for it as even if one or both of them only has a relatively short time left, they are so much happier together :D

And thanks again Fairy13 for your advice!
 
I'm so glad the bonding was successful! 4 isn't old for a bunny though, surely? I'd speak with your vet about getting her spayed. Can't hurt to ask! :thumb: :)

AMETHYST
 
I'll try and get some piccies up when I get chance. I believe 4 is considered fairly old for a giant breed? She's Frenchie x British Giant. I don't think I'd go for the spaying at this age unless it becomes necessary, she lived with her neutered brother with no problems although of course he was giant too so not the same worries there.
 
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