help im confused?

help! im so confused been reading posts about E.C, worms and panacur. Can somebody explain whats its all about?. does it only effect buns that go outside?. im always checkin their poo and havnt seen any worms, can buns die from this?:shock:.
x

Encephalitozoon Cuniculi is a protozoa which is microscopic. It is carried by 50% of domestic rabbits but only a small percentage go on to develop symptoms.

Asymptomatic carriers however can spread the protozoa though spores excreted in the urine and feaces and an infected doe can pass it to her kits through the placenta.

A drug called Fenbendazole which is the active ingrediant in the Worming solution Panacur can be used to control/kill off the protozoa. 9 days is used twice a year as a preventative course and if a rabbit presents with suspected symptoms of an active EC infection then a 6 week course is recommended.

Symptoms of EC include:
*Head Tilt (Torticollis)
*Cataracts & eventual blindness
*Seizures, fitting and neurological damage
*Chronic and re-current bloat and GI Stasis
*Hind leg weakness & muscle wastage
*Weightloss
*Excessive drinking & urination
*Urinary Incontinance
*Renal damage/failure which can lead to death

There are other symptoms and the symptoms can appear in any combination....new ones are being identified all the time.

This article contains a wealth of EC information: RWAF E Cuniculi Article

The other use of Panacur is to treat 'conventional' worms i.e. the type you see excreted in a rabbits droppings. This is not as common in rabbits as in cats and dogs but it does still happen. The recommended course for this is 9 days though some rabbits ingest eggs and re-infest themselves so two 9 day courses may be run back to back. Worm infestations can place a heavy burden on the gut leading to GI problems so they are best treated as soon as a problem is spotted.

can't add any more to that :thumb:

thankyou for replying. its sounds really serious!. should i treat my 2 just to be on the safe side?. their house bunnys, not yet goin out in the garden (wr doing it up).
x

I would recommend treating them just to be safe.
I have a house bunny, kermit, who recently developed head tilt.....this has either been because of EC or an inner ear infection. He never got outside, so it can affect indoor buns too.

If i knew that there was panacur out there before this happened, i would have used it....its only about £4 / £5 for a 9-day course, well worth the cash i would say as head tilt is a very serious condition.

Have never treated any of my outdoor buns over the years either routinely or not and till I saw this thread, didn't realise it was done as a routine treatment-interesting-you learn new things every day on here. -Sue

I wouldn't treat routinely anyway.
All rabbits carry worms in their systems anyway.
I'm also worried that if we keep treating routinely against worms with Panacur then if we do have a problem with Ec it will be harder to get on top of the problem as the rabbit will already have started to have built up an immunity against the Panacur.

I must admit that as the trial blood tests that where done where only a very small amount I'm not sure that it's a true account of what is going on with pet bunny's.

As for the passing of spores it's one of the reasons why my rabbits never go on grass as I don't have enough space to be able to rest grass for 6 months between rabbits. Much easier to keep on slabs and jeyes fluid everywhere regularly.

I personally don't believe Panacur is 100% effective at killing off all EC spores as it is. What I do believe is it can help keep them at a manageable level so that the rabbit's natural immune system does not become over-run....allowing the rabbit to keep the infestation in check and hopefully therefor remain asymptomatic.

This is why I am unsure whether I feel all rabbit should be treated with a one off long course as youngsters (and possibly wreck natural immunity) or whether smaller annual courses work better as a control method.

I change my thoughts on this pretty much everyday and am exceptionally good at confusing myself :roll:

ETA- Just had a chuckle at the thread title....Confused? You will be now

:wave: cheers for posts.
think il treat them just to be safe.
where do i buy pancur from and how would i give it (in water or oral?).
x

Sooz said:

I personally don't believe Panacur is 100% effective at killing off all EC spores as it is. What I do believe is it can help keep them at a manageable level so that the rabbit's natural immune system does not become over-run....allowing the rabbit to keep the infestation in check and hopefully therefor remain asymptomatic.

This is why I am unsure whether I feel all rabbit should be treated with a one off long course as youngsters (and possibly wreck natural immunity) or whether smaller annual courses work better as a control method.

I change my thoughts on this pretty much everyday and am exceptionally good at confusing myself :roll:

ETA- Just had a chuckle at the thread title....Confused? You will be now

Click to expand...

I must admit I tend to agree with you on the confusing front.
There are certain things that could do with being investigated further.
It takes a lot to make me change my mind on things once it's set but I am willing to change if the proof is there

binki said:

:wave: cheers for posts.
think il treat them just to be safe.
where do i buy pancur from and how would i give it (in water or oral?).
x

Click to expand...

you can get it from the vets, *most* p@h stores (it's under lock and key, you have to ask for it) and online. if you search "panacur" in the search facility, there's a link somwhere.

mush it into banana, jobs a good 'un! :lol: