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Panacur, E.Cuniculi, Metacam & paralysis

neeshkabeesh

Warren Scout
My six-year-old rex Honey has had some paralysis in her hind legs which was treated just with metacam for over a week, and then she was back to normal. It kept happening and so the vet has given her Panacur for E.Cuniculi. How long should she be on it and how soon might I expect an improvement in her hind legs if it is E.Cuniculi causing the paralysis? The vet said give for 9 days, but I'm sure I read 3 weeks.

At the moment she is moving around but does allow her hind quarters to fall sideways and sometimes drags them. The first time she had 0.3ml metacam once a day (for a few days, then 0.2ml, then 0.1ml etc) but I have tried 0.3ml this time round and it hasn't been enough. Yesterday she had 0.4ml which made her improve but not completely, it also seemed to wear off quicker (despite her being lighter in weight since she was on metacam the first time :( ). How often can you give metacam and what is the maximum dosage? I believe 0.3ml was a small dose for a rabbit her size but as it worked it seemed okay and also unecessary to give her more.

Shes going back for her VHD jab on Monday so I can ask the vet things then, but its not the same vet who has seen her paralysis problems from the start (who is also a small animal specialist) and I don't have as much faith in Monday's vet. I also can't remember how much she weighs now as she has been losing weight, so I can check that on Monday with regards to dosage.

I know its probably only a downhill journey from now but she is still just as bright and active as she has ever been, her appetite is good, and shes very happy to be with her other bunny friends despite her struggle.
 
Panacur for treating what is considered an active (or symptomatic) EC infection should be given for 6 weeks (it used to be 28 days but due to the cyclical nature of the spores thats no longer considered enough).

I assume the vet gave Metacam assuming some inflammation of the spine resulting in pain. I would expect the vet to keep her on Metacam alongside the Panacur, especially as it appears to be helping her.

The maximum doses for Metacam have recently changed and doses vary depending on the condition so the person to ask about the required doseage is your vet and your vet alone....especially as Metacam can have side effects.

I would also post-pone her VHD injection. The last thing her immune system needs is something else to fight off and if she does have EC the additional strain could well allow other symptoms to develop.

Vaccines should never be given to rabbits who are not 100% in health.
 
It is difficult to say what the dose should be without knowing her weight and being able to see her full condition - I would take her in for her appointment and get her weighed while there and discuss the maximum metacam dose that can be given. It is diffcult when E. cuniculi is suspected as there is often concurrent kidney compromise. Metacam can decrease the protective response of the kidneys and so your vet may choose to err on the side of caution and give a lower metacam dose to avoid any further injury to the kidneys.
Re: panacur, the 28 day course is still standard and as long as good hygiene is observed then this is sufficient - the problem arises when rabbits have continued reinfection from urine and these may need longer courses. The vet may just want to trial how she gets on over a short perios then consider extending the course or doing further tests. If she doesn't improve over the course of treatment then it would be worth considering other possible diagnoses - spondylosis (linking of vertebrae by bony changes) and even spinal injury could be considered and aren't unusual, and other problems such as kidney problems could complicate the primary problem so further tests should be considered. If you can get a urine sample before your appointment then this can be useful to your vet to give a coarse assessment of kidney filtering abilities.
It is a difficult situation with regards to her bunny friends - if she is shedding E.cuniculi spores then she risks infecting them too. However, if she has been with them for a long time then transfer will likely have occurred previously and separation will just stress her out with no benefit to anyone. This is the difficult nature of E.cuniculi - not every rabbit will respond in the same way and some not at all. Are the other rabbits on any treatment?
I would also do some physio on her legs to slow any muscle degeneration - start off by very gently flexing and extending each hind leg, but don't move them further than they will easily move. If you can do this for a few minutes two or three times a day it can make her feel more comfortable and will help you assess how much control and movement she has in her legs and whether this is improving.
Marie
 
It is difficult to say what the dose should be without knowing her weight and being able to see her full condition - I would take her in for her appointment and get her weighed while there and discuss the maximum metacam dose that can be given. It is diffcult when E. cuniculi is suspected as there is often concurrent kidney compromise. Metacam can decrease the protective response of the kidneys and so your vet may choose to err on the side of caution and give a lower metacam dose to avoid any further injury to the kidneys.
Re: panacur, the 28 day course is still standard and as long as good hygiene is observed then this is sufficient - the problem arises when rabbits have continued reinfection from urine and these may need longer courses. The vet may just want to trial how she gets on over a short perios then consider extending the course or doing further tests. If she doesn't improve over the course of treatment then it would be worth considering other possible diagnoses - spondylosis (linking of vertebrae by bony changes) and even spinal injury could be considered and aren't unusual, and other problems such as kidney problems could complicate the primary problem so further tests should be considered. If you can get a urine sample before your appointment then this can be useful to your vet to give a coarse assessment of kidney filtering abilities.
It is a difficult situation with regards to her bunny friends - if she is shedding E.cuniculi spores then she risks infecting them too. However, if she has been with them for a long time then transfer will likely have occurred previously and separation will just stress her out with no benefit to anyone. This is the difficult nature of E.cuniculi - not every rabbit will respond in the same way and some not at all. Are the other rabbits on any treatment?
I would also do some physio on her legs to slow any muscle degeneration - start off by very gently flexing and extending each hind leg, but don't move them further than they will easily move. If you can do this for a few minutes two or three times a day it can make her feel more comfortable and will help you assess how much control and movement she has in her legs and whether this is improving.
Marie

Hello again Marie :wave:

Do take this excellent expert advice neesh and I hope your Bunny will soon show signs of improvement

Janex
 
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My six-year-old rex Honey has had some paralysis in her hind legs which was treated just with metacam for over a week, and then she was back to normal. It kept happening and so the vet has given her Panacur for E.Cuniculi. How long should she be on it and how soon might I expect an improvement in her hind legs if it is E.Cuniculi causing the paralysis? The vet said give for 9 days, but I'm sure I read 3 weeks.

At the moment she is moving around but does allow her hind quarters to fall sideways and sometimes drags them. The first time she had 0.3ml metacam once a day (for a few days, then 0.2ml, then 0.1ml etc) but I have tried 0.3ml this time round and it hasn't been enough. Yesterday she had 0.4ml which made her improve but not completely, it also seemed to wear off quicker (despite her being lighter in weight since she was on metacam the first time :( ). How often can you give metacam and what is the maximum dosage? I believe 0.3ml was a small dose for a rabbit her size but as it worked it seemed okay and also unecessary to give her more.

Shes going back for her VHD jab on Monday so I can ask the vet things then, but its not the same vet who has seen her paralysis problems from the start (who is also a small animal specialist) and I don't have as much faith in Monday's vet. I also can't remember how much she weighs now as she has been losing weight, so I can check that on Monday with regards to dosage.

I know its probably only a downhill journey from now but she is still just as bright and active as she has ever been, her appetite is good, and shes very happy to be with her other bunny friends despite her struggle.

This place is brilliant for advice on this. I've been given excellent guidance here which may help you. http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=127212

Hope she gets well soon. :thumb:
 
Thanks very much all :D

Honey was on metacam only for the short time before because that was all that was needed, the vet did say I could give it as and when she needed it. Since then I've given metacam when shes needed it, but lately its been regular.

The vets is tomorrow, I'll call in the morning to ask who they want me to take. Rosie has persistant clear liquid round her nose and on her arms, shes been on baytril for a fortnight several times which makes it go away but then it comes back again, they've advised me just to come in to get her treated if she gets more symptoms. In the past week shes been having sneezing fits far too often for my liking so I don't think she'd be well for the VHD either. Rosie also got that lame front leg thing last year that is a side effect of the jab, too. I also have Jess who has no complaints, would she have her VHD when the others don't? I'll ask the vet in the morning who to take in the evening.

Its only Honey who is on Panacur. I will question using it just for nine days, might print off the stuff here actually. Honey and Rosie have been together for about five years, Jess joined them about two years ago. They aren't happy being separated, Honey and Rosie are like an old married couple and Jess their irritating teenage daughter :roll: :lol:

When Honey's legs first went down I took her to the small animal specialist vet who was really excellent, she did some weird things with Honey's legs and hind quarters, sort of like an osteopath or a chiropractor would. She pushed and pulled her legs and mentioned which leg was weaker than the other, which hock hurt her more etc, I was quite mesmerised by all the positions she had Honey in! She was really gentle though, its not often you meet a vet who is so passionate about rabbits. I will ask about doing similar things myself with her, like physio as you say.

Thank you, really. All I've had lately is my parents and family who say "oh she looks in a bad way/oh shes not well/oh it looks cruel" and I'm getting annoyed about it. It looks bad when it is bad but Honey doesn't seem to even notice and shes still mobile and eating plenty, I have to keep telling myself shes okay, even though I know she is! Its quite lonely being the sole owner, I just have the magic vet as company in understanding the bunnies, and she only works part time!
 
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