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Rolling Bunny

D

Disco Dolly

Young Bun
Hi,
I wonder if any of you fellow bunny lovers can offer advice to me and my bunny Maggie.
On Wednesday eve, I noticed that she wasn't using one of her hind legs and appeared to be pivoting around. I also thought she looked 'wonky', I was worried it was neurological or an injury to her hind leg. I phoned the vet who offered to come out, I monitored the situation and she seemd to improve - hopping around like normal.
Thursday morning, I took her to the vets as she was quiet and trying to hide. After examination she seemed to get worse actually in the vets, weaving her head, flickering eyes and a slight head tilt. She was given a baytril injection and I was given fibreplex and panacur for Maggie and my other rabbit. When I took her home she went to run in the garden and promptly fell, she appeared drunk and disorientated. I made her comfortable in the hutch and gave her the panacur (which she likes) and fibreplex (which she hates).
I took her back to the vets on Friday, the plan was to give her steroids but the vet decided on another baytril injection and an anti-inflammatory injection. By Friday evening she had started to roll and go into seizures, which result in a trance like state.
Yesterday (Saturday) morning there was definite signs of improvment. She had ate her curly kale and some of a carrot, there were lots of droppings too. She was sat up and seemed pleased to see me, however this also brought on a seizure. When she recovered I took her outside and put her in the hutch, she was moving around and was alert. She seemed pleased to see my other rabbit and was eating grass. I took her back to the vets in the afternoon, this unfortunatley brought on a seizure. Most of last night she was in a trance like state, eyes open and fixed, breathing appeared normal.
My vet has said it's probably E-cuniculi, she is happy to treat as long as I want to but advised that it does not look good. She offered to see Maggie today if she got worse and gave me baytril to give orally as the car journeys are obviously distressing her. My vet advised to continue with all the treatments I have and make a further decision on Tuesday. I obviously want to do the best for my bun but wonder what quality of life this is for her.
This morning she did not seem to have improved, so I made the painful decision to take her to the vets. Within an hour she perked up, I took her outside where she laid in the grass. Her body is not paralysed but her head tilts vary from on one side (to the right) to where she tries to completely tuck her head under. I propped her head up and soon she was munching grass, listening to the birds and then tried to clean herself. Unfortunately this effort brought on a seizure.
This afternoon, she was sat up looking out of the hutch and moving around, still rather drunk like. Bringing her into the house she had a seizure and has been in a trance for about an hour.
I really don't know what to do and find it so heartbreaking, I really don't want her to suffer. I am giving her lots of massages which she responds well to, which is funny as she's never been an affectionate bunny. She was a rescue rabbit and it took a year for her to eat out of my hand and let me stroke her when she's loose in the garden.
She eats when she wants to, is drinking lots (aided only), is going to toilet etc but her seizures seem more frequent and she is trance like most of the time in my presence. When she comes around she is licking my hand non-stop and gets anxious if I take it away.
I know there are similar posts on the forum for E-coniculi and FRS, but I just wanted everyone's bunny views on what to do and more importantly what is best for Maggie.

I hope you can help any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

Jo - Maggie & Roger x
 
I haven't seen it first hand but it sounds very much like EC to me, so it needs to be treated with a strong course of panacur for 6 weeks (?) Elve or Sooz or Tree will know more for definate but your vet should have been able to diagnose that.
I would seperate her from your other buns too, just incase, and treat all the others with probably a months course of panacur just incase she's passed on the EC.

Other people will be able to confirm this.
From what I've read also a lot of this damage is permanent too. :(

Edit: Duh, just reread your post and realised you were asking whether or not she should be PTS. Truth is, lots of people have buns with permant head tilts and star gazing who have happy lives after EC bouts, but its down to whether each bun suffers. Best to see how she pulls through the treatment really I guess. Good luck! :wave:
 
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Hi . I'm so sad to read your post. The symptoms you described are exactly like those that Nia had. She didn't do the rolling thing you describe but the "wonkiness", back leg weakness, fits and trance-like state intercepted with short periods of near normality is what we went through with Nia. She was an EC bunny who had other problems as well. Unfortunately I had to take the heartbreaking decision to have her pts 10 days ago because her quality of life was compromised and the light had seemed to have gone from her eyes. I asked for a PM and it was found that apart from terrible kidney damage she also had lesions on her brain which resulted in quite substantial brain damage. She also had cancer which was a result of her having not been spayed early enough, but it was the EC which caused all the damage. She was a rescue bun, and by the time I got round to spaying her(she'd had other problems which needed GA's and she was considered too frail to undergo the spay until January(I'd had her since October), when it was discovered that she had uterine cancer. You know your rabbit best and so you alone will know when it's time to let her go. Believe me..you'll just know. Thinking of you at this sad and worrying time.
ETA. We didn't separate her from her bonded partner as he was on a long course of panacur anyway and he spent a lot of time snuggled up to her and grooming her which we think would have been comforting for her. However when she had her first big fit we noticed her seemed to withdraw from her slightly, but when she was in a period of "normality" he snuggled with her again. Any other rabbits you have(sorry, can't remember if you do!) should be on an extended course of panacur. i.e. at least 2 months . The 9 day course is neither use nor ornament in this case as the parasite can live for 4-5 weeks and its spores, which are shed in the urine, can remain active for about 4 weeks if the conditions are right, so it's advisable to treat it for at least 2 months. Tim(Nia's partner) is nearing the end of a 60 day course.
 
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I'm truly sorry to hear about your bun :( But, there is hope - if she goes onto a six week course of panacur that would help her - no need to separate her from your other bun as this is passed through wee spores.

I have had buns with Ec and also with Strokes who get head tilt, stargazing etc but with treatment, lots of comfort and love they can live happy lives:D

She needs to be kept at home and the vet come to see her - I had to do this with one bun in particular - her name was Muffin - she had a stroke and developed headtilt - I could not move her from her room to take her anywhere as she flipped and made the situation worse. The vet used to come to see her :D

Muffin had a good life for a few more months until she had another two strokes in less than 48 hours:cry: The light went from her eyes, she refused food and was shutting down - then we knew we had to let her go:cry::cry:

But I have had a few headtilt buns and I know of many who have them and they do live happy lives, the adjust :D

One thing you could try her on is some stemetil tablets - these are for travel sickness - I give the buns with head tilt, strokes and suchlike these as although buns cannot be sick, they can feel that dizziness and disorientation - these tablets do help.

I hope your bun can get through this - if it is Ec then she will be affected but any treatment should help her getting any more symptoms or getting worse.

Snuggles to her - xxxx
 
Disco Dolly said:
Hi,
I wonder if any of you fellow bunny lovers can offer advice to me and my bunny Maggie.
On Wednesday eve, I noticed that she wasn't using one of her hind legs and appeared to be pivoting around. I also thought she looked 'wonky', I was worried it was neurological or an injury to her hind leg. I phoned the vet who offered to come out, I monitored the situation and she seemd to improve - hopping around like normal.
Thursday morning, I took her to the vets as she was quiet and trying to hide. After examination she seemed to get worse actually in the vets, weaving her head, flickering eyes and a slight head tilt. She was given a baytril injection and I was given fibreplex and panacur for Maggie and my other rabbit. When I took her home she went to run in the garden and promptly fell, she appeared drunk and disorientated. I made her comfortable in the hutch and gave her the panacur (which she likes) and fibreplex (which she hates).
I took her back to the vets on Friday, the plan was to give her steroids but the vet decided on another baytril injection and an anti-inflammatory injection. By Friday evening she had started to roll and go into seizures, which result in a trance like state.
Yesterday (Saturday) morning there was definite signs of improvment. She had ate her curly kale and some of a carrot, there were lots of droppings too. She was sat up and seemed pleased to see me, however this also brought on a seizure. When she recovered I took her outside and put her in the hutch, she was moving around and was alert. She seemed pleased to see my other rabbit and was eating grass. I took her back to the vets in the afternoon, this unfortunatley brought on a seizure. Most of last night she was in a trance like state, eyes open and fixed, breathing appeared normal.
My vet has said it's probably E-cuniculi, she is happy to treat as long as I want to but advised that it does not look good. She offered to see Maggie today if she got worse and gave me baytril to give orally as the car journeys are obviously distressing her. My vet advised to continue with all the treatments I have and make a further decision on Tuesday. I obviously want to do the best for my bun but wonder what quality of life this is for her.
This morning she did not seem to have improved, so I made the painful decision to take her to the vets. Within an hour she perked up, I took her outside where she laid in the grass. Her body is not paralysed but her head tilts vary from on one side (to the right) to where she tries to completely tuck her head under. I propped her head up and soon she was munching grass, listening to the birds and then tried to clean herself. Unfortunately this effort brought on a seizure.
This afternoon, she was sat up looking out of the hutch and moving around, still rather drunk like. Bringing her into the house she had a seizure and has been in a trance for about an hour.
I really don't know what to do and find it so heartbreaking, I really don't want her to suffer. I am giving her lots of massages which she responds well to, which is funny as she's never been an affectionate bunny. She was a rescue rabbit and it took a year for her to eat out of my hand and let me stroke her when she's loose in the garden.
She eats when she wants to, is drinking lots (aided only), is going to toilet etc but her seizures seem more frequent and she is trance like most of the time in my presence. When she comes around she is licking my hand non-stop and gets anxious if I take it away.
I know there are similar posts on the forum for E-coniculi and FRS, but I just wanted everyone's bunny views on what to do and more importantly what is best for Maggie.

I hope you can help any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

Jo - Maggie & Roger x
Click to expand...

Hello

I have a Bun who had similar symptoms. We are basically throwing all treatments at him to cover all bases ( EC, infection, inflammation, reduced GI function etc) He (Eddie) has been on Panacur (Fenbendazole) for 6 weeks at a dose of 20mg/kg. For the first three weeks he was also on Baytril at a dose of 10mg/kg by subcutaneous injection daily and Metacam at a dose of 0.4mg/kg by subcutaneous injection daily. The meds, apart from Panacur, were given via injection as a Bun who is poorly may have reduced gut function and therefore the meds may not be absorbed into the bloodstream. Also, giving longterm antibiotics via injection reduces the risk of GI dysbiosis. Longterm use of Metacam can cause GI ulceration. The risk of this is reduced if given via injection and also if an anti GI ulcer med like Ranitidine (Zantac) is given.

After the abx and Metacam were stopped Eddie remained symptom free for about 2 weeks ( he previously had seizures and a slight head tillt) But about 2 weeks ago he developed a pronounced head tilt. We put him back onto Baytril and Metacam again ( he is also still on Panacur) and after about 5 days he is much improved. His head tilt is minimal and *so far* no more seizures.

I have not had Eddie blood tested for EC as it would be a stressful proceedure for him and a positive result would not change the treatment Eddie is on. Eddie has had a history of 'Snuffles' and we believe that his symptoms may be related to a Pasteurella abscess in his CNS. This theory backed up by the fact that Eddie has also gone blind ( no sign of catarracts which could point to EC ) and the fact that his symptoms improve when on antibiotics and anti-inflammatories. Of course EC *might* be involved but we are not certain hence treating for EC anyway.

As long as your Bun remains 'bright within herself' then I would not give up yet. The road to recovery may be very long indeed ( months as opposed to weeks) but recovery, or partial recovery is most certainly possible. Of course not everyBun can tolerate a lot of intensive nursing care and so any decisions made need to be based on the individual Bun and not on their illness.

It would be a good idea to treat any in contact Rabbits with Panacur too as *if* it is EC then the spores are excreted in the urine which will then put anyBun in the same environment at risk.

Good luck and please keep us updated

Janex
 
I would echo the 'not giving up'.

I have/have had several EC buns (if that is what it is) and most make brilliant recoveries. Sweet Pea is now 9 and had his fits and eye rolling and severe tilt attack some 4 years ago now. He is fit healthy and happy with only residual small tilt now.
Some do eventually years down the line succumb to eventual EC/age related organ failure - (and some like poor Nia do not make it).

However whilst there is still hope and you feel he is still 'there' in between the bouts do not give up.

One vet did offer to put Sweet Pea to sleep for us as his tilt/eye flicker and rolling was so bad in the first few days - we are SO happy that we went against their advice.
 
Thank you all so much for your informative, thoughtful and kind words.

This morning Maggie was in a trance and fitting when she came around. When I got in from work this evening, she was sat upright, with a slight head tilt. She came over to see me and ate her favourite (curly kale) upright without much of a head tilt. I offered her water, which she took but then went into her curled up trance. If I touch her when she is like this, she tends to respond and comes around but another trance mode or fit tends to follow.
I've separated Maggie from her partner (Roger) as he gets quite stressed when she is in a trance and tries biting or digging her. Roger is also receiving panacur and I will after all your advice ensure he receives it for the 2 months. I worry for him though as he seems withdrawn and is slightly off his food...any suggestions?
Maggie and Roger both have the run of the garden all day and are put in their hutch at night. With Maggie indoors, poor old Rog is quite lonely outside all day.

I will continue trying and doing my best for Maggie and feel encouraged by everyone's replies.

I'm sorry to hear about Nia being pts Capel, she looks to be the same build as Maggie. I read somewhere that it can affect small and old rabbits more. I have no idea of Maggie's age (as she is a rescue) but she is a Lionhead x dwarf and I've had her 13 months.

Anyway, I'm off to bleach and nurse, thanks everyone once again x
 
:wave: Hi everyone,
I thought I'd share Maggie's good news with you :D
She has made a remarkable recovery, in the past 48 hours she has not had a fit or tried to roll. She still has a slight head tilt but is moving and running about almost like normal. I think her vision may have gone as she is running into things near her. But today in the garden she ran from one side to the other in a straight line. She has settled well into indoor life (at night) and in the hutch in the day. I let her out when I am around and she enjoys her little runs around the garden.
The only down side is that she has gone off pellets and carrots, she is eating greens, grass and hay. She keeps rubbing her scent on the carrots as opposed to eating them (she used to love them).
Also, she is not interested in Roger, which is making him go for her. He licks her and when she doesn't respond to him, he gets frustrated and bites her.
Both of them are still on the Panacur and Maggie is also still on baytril.

I am so pleased with Maggie's progress, I accept that she may never be 'normal' but she is an alert little bunny who is 80% better than she was this time last week.

Thanks to everyone who encouraged me not to give up :) it's so hard knowing whats right but it helps to talk (type).

Love Jo, Maggie & Roger xxx:bunny::rabbit2:
 
Oh that's wonderful news :) I'm so glad that progress is being made :)

As for the carrots and pellets, maybe, just maybe she has a small spur or something in her mouth, but at the moment nothing could be done about it anyway. Also, due to her head tilt she may find eating harder things a bit uncomfortable as yet and may have to get used to it. You could try soaking her pellets in a little water and see if she can eat them that way, she may need hand feeding them at first to show that she can actually eat them. You could try grating her carrot for her or cut into small bite sized pieces :)

Roger may come round to the fact that she isn't too good just yet and Maggie may start responding more when she gets used to the world being upside down:lol::lol::lol:

I wish you all the luck in the world, please keep us updated and give snuggles to brave Maggie and lovely Roger from us - xxxx
 
It's been a while.....

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd share my good and sad news with you as it's been a while since I gave an update on my rolling bunny Maggie....
Maggie is 100% better, no head tilt, rolls or any other symptom of EC since April! She recovered with LOADS of care and treatment within 3 weeks of the first symptoms. Thanks to you all for the kind words and I'm so glad I never gave up. My vet was extremely pleased and astonished to say the least as the future looked bleak for her.
Roger and Maggie fell back into love again within a few days of her being well enough to venture outside....it happened over a dinner of dandelion leaves (HUGE pile) and was lovely to see. I should get some pictures up actually of them canoodling and Maggie looking a picture of health :)

My sad news is that Roger passed away on Monday morning :cry: I was extremely heartbroken as it was very quick, he was a bit quiet and snuffly late on Sunday evening. I got up early to take him to the vets on Monday and he had passed away in his hutch with Maggie by his side. My only consolation is that he died at home with Maggie, as my last two rabbits passed away in the vets. Also, I know he had a fantastic 4 years, well 3.5 with me definitely - he had the run of the garden all day and I'd have to wait until he was ready to go to bed at night....otherwise I could never catch him!

Now, I have to concentrate on finding a friend for Maggie, as she's lost without her boy. I tried to post on the Rabbit Rehoming page but couldn't. Does anybody know of any rabbits that need rehoming in the South Wales Area?
I'm looking for a more mature, medium - large sized male who is preferably neutered. Maggie is unfortunately not spayed, as she is also a rescue rabbit and I do not know her age I'm reluctant to put her under the anaesthetic.

Can anyone help????
Also if a moderator can help by moving this post to the rabbit rehoming section - I would be most grateful.

Love Jo & Maggie :bunny: xxxxx
RIP our boy Roger :angel: xxxxx
 
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