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Echinacea/Snuffles

H

Holly Imp

New Kit
:wave:

Hello everybody! I am new here and found this forum by frantically searching about snuffles as i have 7 rabbits, 5 of whom all have this condition and i just can't get rid of it, it is costing loads in vets bills. Originally 6 of the rabbits had it and fingers crossed the one who doesn't have it is more or less 'cured'. The rest however are ok after baytril treatment for a few days, then the symptoms return. 1 of the family has never had it and hopefully never will.

I have read quite a bit on this forum and other places on the internet about the usage of echinacea in liquid form. I got some yesterday. My rabbits are netherland dwarfs, i don't know how much is safe to give them each day? And when people say so many drops a day, what do you mean? Literally just squeeze the tube and get a drop? I read somewhere to give 1ml a day, is this too much? And how much water should i mix it with?

I would really appreciate anyones advice/help, thank you in advance!

Holly.:)
 
Sorry to hear about your buns :(

You might have better luck with treatment if you continue the antibiotics longer term...my snuffley bun has currently been on baytril for about 4 months straight.

Are your buns related? If so, it's very likely that Mum has passed the bacteria onto her babies in the womb. :(

Unfortunately there isn't really a cure, but good nutrition, clean housing, and minimal stress may help keep symptoms at bay. Also remember not to use wood shavings, because that tends to make the problem worse.
 
Thanks for the reply. Yes it is a family. I know the Mum passed it on to them all - even the Dad, however the Dad seems to have been 'cured'. One of her sons has never had it however, so i think she passed it on after they were born.

I have recently stopped the wood shavings and using shredded paper instead. Giving baytril for more than a week is not an option at my vets. Plus the Mum and two girls are a nightmare to give it to, the boys are fine though. That's why i want to give the echinacea a try.

They don't have anything wrong with their eyes like many report. It is sneezing fits throughout the day, snorting noises, loud breathing and white discharge from the nose every so often - i haven't seen any discharge for a while.
 
Hi Holly - in all honesty if your vets will give you nothing more than baytril for a week at a time, I would change vets. There are plenty of antibiotics which are commonly used for snuffles if baytril doesn't work, and I have also been told that many vets are now recommending a 6 week course of baytril to help knock snuffles on the head. You may also find that bisolvon helps - this thins the mucus so helps it to drain away more easily so they can breathe better, I find this is a particular problem with nethies because they have such tiny nasal cavities.

My Santa is also a nethie and she has chronic snuffles, I give her two drops of echinacea tincture a day - by that I do literally mean two drips off the end of the doser which is in the bottle, which I put onto a spoon with a couple of drops of water and just feed to her. She loves the taste so laps it all up. I have also put it in the water in the past (squeeze the whole plunger - which is probably about a ml I'd guess) and they love the taste and drink it up nicely. I then just change the water daily to keep it fresh. You shouldn't give it for more than a fortnight at a time as there is some suggestion that it doesn't work as well if given constantly!
 
Yes that's right, you shouldn't use echinacea constantly (in humans or animals), in case it interferes with the immune system. You can use it long term, but just not every day.
 
Hey
My lil boy Alfie has pasteurella and didnt do well/ respond on Baytril.
He is now on Septrin (Human med) And he is doing great on it. Its a child antibiotic and smells and tastes of banana, alfie loves the stuff.
You could ask your vet about it? Its cheaper too as bigger bottle and human med is alot cheaper than veterinary.
xx
 
Thank you for the replies everyone :)

The vets seem to think that 'baytril' is the safest option and are reluctant to switch to a different antibiotic because they say they could be dangerous. Although they have offered to take a swab to detect which bacteria is causing the snuffle symptoms and to also to detect if there is any resistance to baytril.

Alison - the Bisolvon you mentioned, can i only get that from the vets? How old is Santa, has she had snuffles a while? Yes, i take echinacea myself, you can only take it for a month at a time, month on, month off, but i assume it will be less for rabbits.

Melanie - Can you buy septrin from the chemist, or do you need a prescription? I will mention this to the vet too. How long is alfie on this for? How long has he had pasteurella?

The swab itself costs a lot of money and although my 5 rabbits with snuffles clearly have the same condition, the vet wants to see them all again before they will give any antibiotics, and will obviously charge for this pleasure. They agreed to only swab one of them thankfully but i will still be charged for 5 consultations, 5 lots of antibiotics and 1 swab test. I have already spent quite a lot of money on this already which is why i was hoping the herbal way could help. Plus i'm sure the vets will just stick them on baytril yet again, it clearly isn't working and i don't want to waste any more money on something that does not work!
 
Hi Holly - sorry only just seen this!

Yes baytril is pretty much the only antibiotic licensed for use in rabbits in this way, but there are plenty of others out there - some safer than others. Just because a drug isn't licensed it doesn't necessarily mean that it is unsafe, it's an expensive process to go through so drug companies often don't do it for rabbits! Many of them do seem to be pretty safe - Santa has had long courses of terramycin, ronaxan (doxycycline) and Septrin in the past all with no problems - penicillin is known to be slightly riskier even when injected hence it tends not to be the first choice drug, but it can still be ok. It's best to give probiotics alongside antibiotics, depending on the type, these can be sprinkled on food or put in water and they just help the rabbits gut to re-balance from the antibiotics, thus making it less risky. Santa has been snuffly for over 2 years and has probably been on antibiotics for about a third of that time in total, mostly terramycin, and has been absolutely fine with them.

Both bisolvon and septrin are prescription only so you can only get them from your vet. Septrin in a chemist is still a prescription only drug so you can't do that either I'm afraid!

Swabs can be helpful but if your bun has already been on antibiotics that will have affected the nasal flora anyway - plus the pus in the nasal cavity is mostly pus and dead bacteria so don't hold your breath for a useful result. They can be useful of course but a lot of time they don't tell you much.

To be honest if it was me, I really would consider changing vets, often the more experienced and confident rabbit vets are happy using other antibiotics etc because they have seen them used them lots of times and know what they can/can't safely do.
 
AlisonA said:
Hi Holly - sorry only just seen this!

Yes baytril is pretty much the only antibiotic licensed for use in rabbits in this way, but there are plenty of others out there - some safer than others. Just because a drug isn't licensed it doesn't necessarily mean that it is unsafe, it's an expensive process to go through so drug companies often don't do it for rabbits! Many of them do seem to be pretty safe - Santa has had long courses of terramycin, ronaxan (doxycycline) and Septrin in the past all with no problems - penicillin is known to be slightly riskier even when injected hence it tends not to be the first choice drug, but it can still be ok. It's best to give probiotics alongside antibiotics, depending on the type, these can be sprinkled on food or put in water and they just help the rabbits gut to re-balance from the antibiotics, thus making it less risky. Santa has been snuffly for over 2 years and has probably been on antibiotics for about a third of that time in total, mostly terramycin, and has been absolutely fine with them.

Both bisolvon and septrin are prescription only so you can only get them from your vet. Septrin in a chemist is still a prescription only drug so you can't do that either I'm afraid!

Swabs can be helpful but if your bun has already been on antibiotics that will have affected the nasal flora anyway - plus the pus in the nasal cavity is mostly pus and dead bacteria so don't hold your breath for a useful result. They can be useful of course but a lot of time they don't tell you much.

To be honest if it was me, I really would consider changing vets, often the more experienced and confident rabbit vets are happy using other antibiotics etc because they have seen them used them lots of times and know what they can/can't safely do.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your reply Alison. My rabbits don't always have discharge coming from the nose either so i think it's pointless doing a swab if there is nothing there. I rang the vets today to ask if they could give me whatever they use to take a swab, that way i can do the swab myself as soon as any of the rabbits have discharge plus reduces stress for my rabbits as i wouldn't have to take them in. Helpfully they didn't get back to me like they said they would so will have to ring again tomorrow. I've spoken to another user on here - her rabbit had a swab and was found to have the staph bacteria rather than pasteurella and ended up with abscesses on it's paws, that's one reason i want to know what the bacteria is. I'm worried about changing vets, my cat who is 18 has always been to this vets and 4 of my rabbits have been neuteured and spayed there so i've always trusted them. I've never really had any problems until now and wouldn't know where else to go as I've had no experience of other vets in my area plus i know a lot of places try and get money out of you unnecessarily!
 
The swab needs to be taken from pretty deep inside the nasal cavity, so it's probably best that a vet does it.

You're totally right that it isn't necessarily pasteurella.
 
Got some sense today, i rang again to ask why nobody had rung me back. About ten minutes later a vet who is nice and helpful and actually knows what she is talking about rang me back!

She explained the unreliability of swabs and she didn't want to cause the rabbits any unneeded stress by doing it and also me lots of money to not really tell us a lot. She said because the rabbits have already had baytril treatment the culture of the swab becomes even more unreliable. She also said whatever the bacteria causing the snuffles whether it be pasteurella or the staph bacteria etc they would still treat it in the same way. She was willing to try new antibiotics and for a longer period, she said this is the next step and I suggested septrin and bisolvon as has been reccommended on here and she is going to try and get a big container full for me if her bosses will allow it, she said she will ring me in the next couple of days with a price...eeeeek, i hope it's not too much, but it is for 5 rabbits for a 4-6 week treatment so it's gonna be expensive!

She also said to carry on with the echinacea and add probiotics when i start with the antibiotics. I mentioned goldenseal and bronchial aid and she said to leave these for now. She said it is very likely they have chronic snuffles and we will see how we go from here. She said a lot of rabbits can manage chronic snuffles and keeping on top of their environment can help a lot but if they are showing any abnormalities ie going off food and not being themselves etc thats when they need help. Feel a bit better about it, just worried about the price now. I just want them to be better but if it is chronic snuffles they are going to be suffering, i sometimes wonder if it's hayfever :lol:
 
hi i use it on mine and i just put a couple of drops in the water everytime its empty. thats on the intstruction of a vet who is trained in homeopathic treatment.
 
alice the flea said:
hi i use it on mine and i just put a couple of drops in the water everytime its empty. thats on the intstruction of a vet who is trained in homeopathic treatment.
Click to expand...

Did they say you should stop every so often? As i know in humans you aren't supposed to have it all the time, you should have it like a month on then have a month break
 
Vets rang me today and they have changed their minds they want to give baytril another go for 40 days - they said because i would be buying septrin in such a large quantity (5 rabbits for 40 days) that it would have been extremely expensive. The baytril has come to £65.73 altogether. I'm not very happy as i was hoping the bananna taste would work to my advantage with the septrin, even when i mix the baytril my rabbits hate it :(
 
Holly Imp said:
Did they say you should stop every so often? As i know in humans you aren't supposed to have it all the time, you should have it like a month on then have a month break
Click to expand...
no he didnt as with these 2 it take ages to drink their bottle of water.
as for the baytril i have always been told no more then 2 weeks then give a break.
 
snuffles

ive been having a problem with rabbits dieing at 6 to 8 weeks old for no apparent reason they have been just flat on the cage floor some have been alive and some have been dead it seems to be just the females yesterday ive found a 5 week old rabbit with a real runny nose the first thing i did was the baytril dose and today more research on the net their is more forms of snuffles prehaps the ive had the more agressive form with out being able to get to the bottom of my problem with my vet i have only manage to save i doe this year out of six that have had it ive used all known disenfectants with water based but still i lose them whats this about echinacea in the water ?
 
MelanieO said:
Hey
My lil boy Alfie has pasteurella and didnt do well/ respond on Baytril.
He is now on Septrin (Human med) And he is doing great on it. Its a child antibiotic and smells and tastes of banana, alfie loves the stuff.
You could ask your vet about it? Its cheaper too as bigger bottle and human med is alot cheaper than veterinary.
xx
Click to expand...

My bunny is on this and she is doing very well after 6 weeks on Baytril had no lasting effects. She's currently waiting to go in for a dental which will hopefully help the problem too.
 
Hi all. My bunny has chronic snuffles that when I adopted him, was told was under control. No, it wasn't. He had infections in one eye and both ears. and his snuffles is constant. Baytrill doesn't work, but that's all he is given. I work at holland and Barrett and have started to give him one capsule of echinacea every 3 days diluted in water and mixed with a bit of parsley. I started this today so will let you all know of the results.
 
georgieandrogerbunny said:
Hi all. My bunny has chronic snuffles that when I adopted him, was told was under control. No, it wasn't. He had infections in one eye and both ears. and his snuffles is constant. Baytrill doesn't work, but that's all he is given. I work at holland and Barrett and have started to give him one capsule of echinacea every 3 days diluted in water and mixed with a bit of parsley. I started this today so will let you all know of the results.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about your bunny - but welcome to RU :wave:
I hope you'll find some info here!

You've obviously been searching the archives, which is great, but if I were you I should put up a separate post in health concerning your rabbit and what advice you require. This is an old thread and may not be spotted ...

Echinacea is absolutely brilliant, and as I'm sure you know, there are other immune boosters that can be used alongside and compliment it. Echinacea should be given three weeks at a time, then a week off before beginning again (if needed).

When I last looked in Holland and Barrett their echinacea was in tablet form. Do they now have capsules that can be opened?

I should also seek advice from a good vet (post another thread if you need to find a good one), as Baytril doesn't have to be the only antibiotic given. I have had rabbits use a variety of antibiotics - mind you they don't all work :D

You could also try Bisolvon, which thins the mucous and helps it to drain from the nose better.

Good luck xx Keep us posted :D
 
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