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Bonding help & advice wanted please U/D & Photos

Foofy

Alpha Buck
Hi everyone
I need some advice on bonding my 2 buns please. I have a 4 year old spayed doe Honey who was bonded quite happily with a neutered male I had for 3 years without any problems. Unfortunately my old boy had to be pts in January this year leaving my girl Honey on her own.
Just over 2 weeks ago I got another 1 yr old neutered male as her new husband, Smudge, he hasn't been bonded before. Took her along to the rescue and tried them together and they seemed OK brought them home together in carrier all OK.
Then started bonding at home in my shed which is neutral territory, and it's quite a large shed and they seemed OK together no fights and most days Honey ould end up grooming Smudge's face.
I then tried them together out in my garden, both rabbits had been going out in the garden separately before. They then had a bit of a fight so split them up and put them back in shed where they had a small scuffle to start with and then went back to grooming. So kept trying the bonding in the shed and again they were fine.
Last weekend I bought a smallish hexagon shaped wire pen and thought I would try bonding them in that on my patio next. They were OKish in here for a few times together although no grooming. However last night they had a bit of what I think was a fight Honey grabbed smudge with her teeth so I went to pick her up to seperate them. She actually picked Smudge up a bit from the floor! I think she had hold of his fur as I can find no bleeding or bite/teeth marks on him at all. So I checked him over once satisifed he was all OK I put them back in the pen on patio together and they were OK I kept putting their heads together.
So this morning I tried them in the pen in the shed back on neutral for a short while and they seemded fine together Honey spent most of the time sitting with her head under Smude's tummy.

I would just like some advice please on how to progress with the bonding from here. Am I right in thinking Honey is getting territorial? Any tips and advice would be very welcome. Thanks everyone
 
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My advise would be to read this thread on bonding http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=55913&highlight=bonding

From what I have read I am a little confused, you keep mentioning splitting them and putting them back in the shed. I assume that you keep separating them which just delays the bonding process and confuses the rabbits. You are far better off putting them together and leaving them together, if they need to be separated for 'real' fights, only split them for about 10 seconds and then release them. They will have scuffles and fur will be pulled off the other rabbit . Rabbits usually mount each other and hold on using their teeth ... this is perfectly normal and they should not be separated for this. As long as there are no wounds leave them to sort out their dominance issues themselves.

I am not sure why you are putting their heads together :? this achieves nothing, when bonding rabbits they should not be touched and should be left to get on with things themselves.

Regarding the question about is Honey getting territorial, the answer is that she is confused about what is going on if they are being split up and then reput back together.

My advise would be to thoroughly clean out an area where they will live together and keep them in this for about a week, then slowly increase the area that they have to run about in. If issues occur when new space is introduced go back to the restricted area for another few days.

Your back garden if used by both of them separately is not neutral territory, given a couple of weeks the smells will diminish and they will be fine outside.
 
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Hi
Many thanks for your reply jrn1310. The reason I am putting the 2 rabbits together in stages is that I work full time and therefore cannot watch them all day. I am quite nervous of leaving them all day in the shed together all day while I am not around in case they injure each other.

At the moment they are living in seperate cages outside and having access to the garden at different times. I want them to move into my doe Honey's cage as this is a double storey big cage. Do you think I should scrub it out at the weekend and put them in it together and try that way and not interfere and if they seem OK leave them overnight together? I cannot move this hutch indoors.

Have been reading the recommended link thanks and does seem as if I am interfering too much and not leaving them together for long enough although I am so worried that they will hurt each other.

Although saying that 3 years ago when I got Honey to bond with my male I had who lost his partner I don't remember having any trouble at all once she had been spayed I let them get on with it and moved them into the same hutch straight away I never ever saw them having a go at each other. But this time it is the other way around introuducing a Buck to a doe or doesn't it make any difference?

Thanks so much for your advice I feel a bit less nervous now.
 
I'd say the problem is stemming from the fact that they are living separately, and every time you split them up you are preventing the bond from becoming established. i.e. 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. Is there any way you can portion off a small bunny-safe area in the shed, and fill the space with boxes and litter trays etc which are new to both buns? Is it possible to remove her cage, thoroughly de-odourise it with white vinegar and leave it outside for a week or two in the rain and fresh air while they are confined to the shed?
 
The reason I am putting the 2 rabbits together in stages is that I work full time and therefore cannot watch them all day. I am quite nervous of leaving them all day in the shed together all day while I am not around in case they injure each other.

My suggestion is not to plan anything for the weekend. When you get home on Friday evening clean out the shed and get it ready for bonding bunnies. Saturday morning early, get up early and introduce them, keep an eye on them from a distance over the weekend.


At the moment they are living in seperate cages outside and having access to the garden at different times.
Garden should be a no go area for them together for a good week before you let them out together.


I want them to move into my doe Honey's cage as this is a double storey big cage. Do you think I should scrub it out at the weekend
Scrub hutch out over weekend using 50 :50 vinegar and water leave to dry and on Sunday introduce them to the hutch unless you can safely leave them in the shed for longer.


Have been reading the recommended link thanks and does seem as if I am interfering too much and not leaving them together for long enough although I am so worried that they will hurt each other.
Unfortunately this increases the chances of failure with bondings.

Although saying that 3 years ago when I got Honey to bond with my male I had who lost his partner I don't remember having any trouble at all once she had been spayed I let them get on with it and moved them into the same hutch straight away I never ever saw them having a go at each other. But this time it is the other way around introuducing a Buck to a doe or doesn't it make any difference?
all bondings are different some fight and try to kill each other, some love each other from the minute they meet, others play hard to get and one gets impatient with the other, and some have both partners play hard to get for a few days totally ignoring each other. None of these are more likey to fail than others ...
 
I did exactly what you were doing when I bonded my girls. Putting them together and then when they started scuffling parting them etc.

I asked for advice on here and they told me I should not interfere and just let them get on with it and observe (so long as there ws not real fighting). Their behaviour seems just normal and as was said earlier - they seem confused. So one weekend (as I work fulltime also) I just said enough - and put them together to live. I then just kept my eye on them. They can each hold their own. It was the best piece of advice I have been given. Just leave them alone but observe. My girls are absolutely fine now. Good luck x
 
Thanks everyone for your help. Will let you know how I get on with the bonding. Will be my 3rd time at bonding only the other 2 were quite a long time ago and my memory is not that good!
I feel much better now and have white vinegar at the ready for the hutch scrubbing.
Thanks again :)
 
Bonding going well, hooray!

Hi all
Couldn't resist letting you all know how the buns have been doing today.
Scrubbed out my hutch first thing this morning with half water half white vinegar.
Put 2 buns in the shed this morning and bonding is going great I am so pleased :D They have been in the shed all day and I'm going to leave them overnight and probably put them in the hutch tomorrow together and see how they get on.
I forgot that the shed door has a stable door, so I have left top half open and been watching them from outside. Watched them for over an hour to start with and they were fine. After 20 minutes Smudge flopped over and laid down and Honey promptly went and sat next to him. After an hour they were both flopped out right next to each for ages.
Have been in an out all day checking on them and they seem fine together and have seen them eating hay together, eating pellets and laying down next to each other lots of times now also seen Honey grooming Smudge's face. Thought about taking some photos but didn't want the flash to spook them.

I am sooooooo happy now :lol::)
 
Thanks Smokeyjoe, it sure is great to watch them :) Just been to check them again and they both cam running over to see me when they saw me looking in at them. They look very relaxed together now.
 
Thanks Smokeyjoe, it sure is great to watch them :) Just been to check them again and they both cam running over to see me when they saw me looking in at them. They look very relaxed together now.

Glad to hear that things are working out well. It is amazing how changing a few things can alter what is going on.
 
Setback with bonding!:(

After the success yesterday and overnight with the bonding had a set back today. Put Honey & Smudge in Honey's hutch this morning. They had a bit of chasing around and fur pulling but I just watched hoping they would sort it out. They then settled for about 5 minutes and laid down with their heads together as if it had worn them both out!

However then they really had a go and were locked onto each other and one of them was squealing I assume it was Smudge. I immediately opened up hutch and smudge jumped out. Is it true they only squeal when terrified?
Checked both buns over for injuries but can find nothing on either and as they are both white any blood would show up.

So I have put them both back in the shed together again. Haven't seen any scuffles, chasing or fur pulling now they are back on neutral ground. I haven't seen them laid out together or grooming each other yet Smudge seemed very nervous of Honey and kept running away at first. They seem to be a bit more settled now but not how they were yesterday. Although oddly they had their heads together eating out of the same food bowl absolutely fine!

I guess it was too soon to put them back into her cage? Even though I scrubbed out with white vinegar and water and put fresh bedding in this morning?

So my next plan is going to be to leave them in the shed all week until next weekend if I can. As the shed is quite large it's the length of our garage and about half as wide as the single garage. So they have plenty of space to run around etc in.

I am unsure whether to try them next weekend in the garden together first or Honey's hutch together first. Any advice welcome?
 
So my next plan is going to be to leave them in the shed all week until next weekend if I can. As the shed is quite large it's the length of our garage and about half as wide as the single garage. So they have plenty of space to run around etc in.

I am unsure whether to try them next weekend in the garden together first or Honey's hutch together first. Any advice welcome?

Like you suggest I would definately leave them in the shed for as long as possible. Only slowly let them have more space. If you let them out in the garden next weekend, restrict the space that they have.

As the hutch has been a problem, leave it a couple of weeks before introducing them back to this to allow the smells to disappear.
 
Thanks so much for your reply jrn1310.

Think I will try as you have suggested. Try them next weekend in the garden I have a wire pen that I can put them in, will see how it goes.

I have thrown away all the bedding that I put in the hutch this morning and used some cage cleaner spray and scrubbed it out again and left it empty so hopefully soon all the smells will go.

I was so worried when I heard Smudge squealing:(They seem OK together at the moment though are sitting a bit closer together than they were.

Fingers crossed!
 
Thanks so much for your reply jrn1310.

Think I will try as you have suggested. Try them next weekend in the garden I have a wire pen that I can put them in, will see how it goes.

I have thrown away all the bedding that I put in the hutch this morning and used some cage cleaner spray and scrubbed it out again and left it empty so hopefully soon all the smells will go.

I was so worried when I heard Smudge squealing:(They seem OK together at the moment though are sitting a bit closer together than they were.

Fingers crossed!

What ever is working keep to it, if something does not work, just stop doing it and move back to what ever did work ... if that makes sence. After a few days you can retry out things ... just take it slowly.
 
Thanks Janice :wave:

Just checked on them again to feed them and they were sitting right next to each other again, hooray :lol:

Put some food in and have left them to get luvved up again! :oops:
 
After a week together in the shed helping the bonding along. Let the buns out in the garden not in the pen for the first time today and was good no fights. They have been busy eating grass and following each other around.

Have also had to put them in a few times due to showers and hailstones!

Here are some pictures of them that I took today

Maybe there was an imposter in the garden?
Animposter.jpg


Honey & Smudge, Honey is the all white one
smudgeHoney-1.jpg


My new bun Smudge
smudge.jpg

DSCF0636.jpg
 
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