Is banning selling animals in petshops realistic?

[Beebop]

On another forum there was a debate on banning selling animals, specifically hamsters (it was a hamster forum) in shops. ANyway, the outcome of it has been that its not realistic to achieve this, in the case of hamsters anyway, because theres no way only pedigree breeders will be able to supply the demand, and as you can't make a living out of it, most would have a normal job alongside their breeding so wouldn't have time to have people around their house day in day out to pick up animals.

So surely that would only end up in a huge growth of backyard breeders which would most likely be far worse that the regulated mill which supplies chain stores? At least shops can be given leaflets to hand out and advise corrected, but it would be far harder if people were selling from their homes.

Therefore, is it realistic to expect petshops to stop selling rabbits and creating a better outcome? Will it just end up in a demand for pets which will be filled with more unscruplous backyard breeders? Or if the regulated mills are the lesser evil, does that mean buying from a shop shouldn't be so frowned upon? Perhaps rather than condemning selling lives from a shop floor, we should be promoting better advice given and better conditions at the mills?

My opinion on that matter should be that the 'pet trade' should end altogether, at least in the case of small pets and exotic animals, but like thats ever going to happen, so whats a better alternative? All opinions welcome!:D

[elve]

well I think no animals should be bred or sold for the pet trade full stop - I'm an extremist :) Failing that I would say there are different categories of pet - mice, hamsters, rats, all live for just 2 or 3 years, don't take up much space, don't eat vast haystacks every week, and are relatively easy to care for (I've had all of them at some time in my life) - So a child is unlikely to outgrow them, although they may get bored with them - it's not like the child will grow up, leave home and rabbit still has another 3 years of neglect to endure.

Rabbits on the other hand are the most tragic animal I can think of - long lifespan, delicate constitution, complex needs with diet and housing and all the rest of it - no way an easy pet, which is why I think definitely the sale of rabbits in pet shops should be banned, or very strictly regulated, in the same way that sale of puppies and kittens in shops is - they are a big commitment financially and time-wise.

[Deelove]

I agree that rabbits are bit of a different category to some smaller animals. But I agree with you that it isn't realistic to stop pet shops selling animals. A lot of smaller shops aren't supplied by a mill, but either breed their own pets or take in unwanted litter's from the public. I wonder what would happen to those animals if the sale of pets from shops was banned.

I do think there would be a lot less people with small animals if petshops didn't sell them though, so although demand wouldn't be met at first, I think demand would go down a lot.

[Tamsin]

Dogs & cats are generally not sold in pet shops and still pose a large rescue problem. If you stop pet shop sales you'd lose a big central point of contact/education for purchasers. It might be a more realistic (and effective) solution to just improve the point of sale advice/process. It would be even more of a logistical nightmare to educate via individual breeders.

Tam

[Thea & Bobbin]

Talking about animals in general, I mentioned to my BF the other day about the new P@H that is being built in my town. He said that it was impossible that pets would ever stop being sold in pet shops. It made me sad really, but I think he's right. We need to aim our efforts at enforcing laws that make it impossible to sell animals in inadequate conditions.

I'm not sure that the demand for rabbits would actually increase if shops did stop selling them. The bane of the rabbit is the impulse buy. I wonder how many people of the general public actually decide and research into rabbits and go out specifically to find one? This is what i did, and I suspect many other members did, but I hate to think what percentage of pet rabbits in the UK were not well thought out decisions. If something is not presented to you in a shop window, you are far less likely to think to go and buy it ;)

[Beebop]

I'm not sure that the demand for rabbits would actually increase if shops did stop selling them.

No, I'm not saying the number of people wanting a rabbit would increase, the number may shrink a bit, but my point was that there would still be a large demand for rabbits and backyard breeders would fill the gaps after the shops had stopped selling. ;)

I agree, rabbits and guinea pigs, because of their longer lifespan have to endure more, but sadly all small pets, no matter how long they live all suffer neglect. The tiny hamster cages sold in some shops are as bad, if not worse than some small hutches and yet people house even rats in them.

The reason I started this thread was because many on this forum feel, like myself, lives shouldn't be sold from a store allowing any stranger to walk in and buy one. Yet to ban them from shops would cause a bigger problem, so as we seem to condemn buying from a shop a lot, should we change that attitude and try to do more through education of shops rather than complain and wishing they'd go away.

[Thea & Bobbin]

No, I'm not saying the number of people wanting a rabbit would increase, the number may shrink a bit, but my point was that there would still be a large demand for rabbits and backyard breeders would fill the gaps after the shops had stopped selling. ;)



Yes, sorry, slightly misunderstood you but my point remains the same:

If something is not presented to you in a shop window, you are far less likely to think to go and buy it ;)

I don't think the demand would be as great, simply because and the urge to buy a rabbit would not develop if rabbits weren't commonly seen in petshops ;)

I 100% agree with you that banning livestock sales is not the way forward. Petshops and consumers (horrible word) need to be educated.

[FriskyClover]

I don't think the demand would be as great, simply because and the urge to buy a rabbit would not develop if rabbits weren't commonly seen in petshops ;)



I agree, I think that if small pets were not seen all the time, particularly as tiny babies, then demand would probably fall.

I would love to see strict controls on the sell of pets and their breeding conditions but how you achieve this, I have no idea!

I think at the moment what would be of most use would be some sort of method to prevent the impulse buying of pets. Perhaps, there should be a 1 week cooling off period between buying the pet and taking it home. Before you could take it home, you would have to bring proof that it will be housed in a suitable manner (not sure how you would do that, maybe make them bring in a reciept or something?).

[kayjay]

I drove past a petshop today and outside it had four hutches, the biggest was 3 foot, the others were 2ft... it did make me wonder how we can change this. I think not selling pets in shops is a few years away yet, but surely pet shops should be made to sell the correct size accommodation and give out the right advice....

[Beebop]

Kayjay, does the new RSPCA regulations not make 2ft hutches illegal to sell? Or am I ahead of myself? They did bring out new laws, but I can't be certain if it covers this.

I agree the demand will fall, but the demand will still be big enough to allow morebackyard breeders to jump on the bandwagon, as it will be all over the news as well. Thats the tricky part, and shop windows would be covered in ads for baby rabbits etc.:(

[elve]

Kayjay, does the new RSPCA regulations not make 2ft hutches illegal to sell? Or am I ahead of myself? They did bring out new laws, but I can't be certain if it covers this.

.:(

they probably get round that by saying they're just for guinea pigs, or temporary and they always recommend a bigger hutch is bought once the baby rabbit gets bigger, etc :roll:

[cute_fuzzies]

Kayjay, does the new RSPCA regulations not make 2ft hutches illegal to sell? Or am I ahead of myself? They did bring out new laws, but I can't be certain if it covers this. (


The RSPCA has their own set of guidelines, but they do not have any regulations.

The 'regulations' (they'll likely be termed 'guidance' :roll:) will come in the form of the rabbit Code of Practice which is currently (still) under review...

In this, it should outline recommended accommodation sizes. I doubt it will make it illegal to sell these hutches, but it will (hopefully) make it very dodgy for an owner to keep their animal in one. I have a feeling that the minimum recommendation will be 4ft. However, bear in mind that there are many many organisations involved in the consultation... so you'll have netherland dwarf old-school breeders who will most likely object to the 4ft minimum... ultimately, we just don't know until it finally comes out :rolleyes:

[Tamsin]

Under trade descriptions items sold must be fit for purpose so it the guidelines state 4' and they sell you a 2' hutch you could argue it wasn't fit. I don't know if that would gain anything other than money back tho.

Tam

[kayjay]

The lady who bought my HH hutch/run had bought her rabbit along with a 3ft hutch, and noone told her he'd outgrow it in a couple of months... luckily for her rabbit she realised it was too small and responded to my advert. So many people don't and continue to cram their rabbit into a too small hutch (one person in our village blamed her rabbit for growing too big!!) so in my opinion they shouldn't be allowed to sell or manufacture hutches less than 4ft.

[Isabel]

Maybe at the point where the child in the petshop has nagged the parent beyond reason the shop keeper should then step in and tell them the truth-your child WILL get bored with the rabbit after two weeks, your rabbit WILL get ill, your rabbit WILL cost a lot in general upkeep let alone extra vet bills from illness and your rabbit WILL live as long as and cost as much as a dog/cat. THat might change their minds...don't think it would happen though.

[Tara]

I think the main problems with buying animals from petshops is the lack of education and regulations they seem to have.
In theory the pet shop should be an ideal place to purchase a rabbit - here they could advise you on cost, care and you could purchase all necessary equipment that you would need for your bun. Ideally then you would put your name down for a rabbit and be able to go away and think about it before having to come back in a few days to buy it.
If they are to continue with selling rabbits in petshops I would like to see a designated person selling them who is educated enough to give advice to prospective owners - letting them know exactly what they are taken on. Rabbits are a big commitment and I don't think this is stressed enough to people when they go to buy one.
I think that if there was more education then there would be a change in the equipment that is stocked - they would realise that tiny hutches are a big no no and could give appropriate advice on what needs to be bought.
At least if they were sold in a petshop there would be more scope to impliment regulations that would have to be adhered to.

[Denny]

hhhhhmmmm swings and roundabouts for me as years ago, when many pet shops stocked a wide variety of animals, no one really gave a second thought to them being on sale as this was usually where you got an animal from or the neighbour who had had a litter or the stray found living in your shed. There was no internet or national papers to even know how to find a breeder back then so it was the norm to go to the pet shop.

Today however, what does it for me knowing what I know now about rabbits, birds, degus etc is the fact that, there is still this mis-conception that these small animals are ideal children's pets hence them being on sale to bring the public and their children into the store.

When we look at certain animals now, alot are not stocked in your general high street pet shops due to thier specialised needs like snakes, dragons, spiders and should you be after one you tend to have to search for a specialised shop dealing with such breeds. Kittens and puppies have ceased being sold in the majority of pet shops and yet the images of puppies and kittens in the shop window is the one thing that really sticks out for me when I was a child.

I know the import of such breeds is limited to certain import licenses and in many cases illegal to import but it still happens but it does limit them to a few specialised people in the country who care about them even though they sell them:? and they are dishing out the appropriate imformation to care for these repiles needs:)

I'll stop waffling and get to the point:lol::lol: which is....................

many animals have either ceased to be on sale or have seperated into different sectors of the market specialising in exotic's and my feelings on those that are the most popularist animal sold you your general local pet shop are the ones that tend to reach the market of the child and the elderly with the birds.

If we look at these animals that they sell, all could be classed as an ideal childs pet but in reality, a child is always going to want one that they can hold and cuddle so in the majority of cases the birds and fish are out of the question:lol::lol::lol:

Degus can be quite vicious so I am told and along with gerbils can be very quick for a child to handle.

Hamster, chincilla's are nocturnal which the majority of times gets on the parents nerves during the night when they are wide a wake:lol::lol:

Most parents are put off by rats even though they are very intelligent creatures

which leaves gineau pigs and rabbits probably being the chosen ones for the reasons that, they can live outside, fluffy and cute and both portrayed as an easy and cheap childs pet:roll:

I personally do not have a problem with a child having a pet as long as the parent takes sole responsibity for its care, wellbeing and any vet treatment as I feel that children do need to learn to love, care and respect animals. However, I do believe that getting the right pet for a child and parent is very important too which poses the question 'what is the ideal pet for a child'?

[Siona]

I agree that children need to learn, and they won't unless they see the patience and care being shown by a parent for an animal.
When I was growing up we had over 50 animals, including 8 dogs, 2 cats, a guinea pig, a rabbit, a ferret, many rats, lizards, snakes, fish and a pot belly pig.
We took in whatever people brought us, as well as injured wildlife.
I grew up helping to take care of all of these and was never under any illusion about the amount of care needed.
I think having a pet as a child is a positive thing, provided it is cared for and given the attention it needs.

I also agree that if pet shops didn't sell animals then other people would, as it is there are always freeads with rabbits, piggies and kittens for as little as £5.

At least pet shops can be regulated and give advice. When ever I am in P@H or somewhere and I see people debating buying a rabbit or something I will always chip in and tell them about mine, such as eating wires, carpet etc. and the problems Ive had.
I have no qualms about telling people the truth, and I think it's better to scare off somebody that would prove unsuitable rather than their pet possibly suffer or get dumped.

[LionheadLuver]

I agree that pet shops should be given leaflets to hand out to propective owners and given a few days time between putting your name down for an animal and picking it up. These rules could very easily be put into action. But, if shopkeepers told customers how expensive, hard to keep and how much space animals need, they'd never sell any. The shops are there to make money, whether people like us agree with it or not. Children usually bring parents up to a certain point to buying the animal, but the shopkeepers tip them over the edge and then make a sell. Shopkeepers know this and use this to their advantage. They can say all sorts of things to make it sound like a rabbit is the perfect pet (for instance), like it doesn't need vaccs, it only needs a cheap hutch, it doesn't need exercise, etc. They are trying to make them sound so brillant and easy. It's like trying to sell anything. Watch the shopping channels on TV. They never say a bad word about the product, it's all good stuff. This can not possibly be true. There is no perfect thing in the world, so people have to take advice with a pinch of salt.