Norway needs help with bonding, bonded couple in the same room as unspayed male?

[Frèyja]

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Hi!

Since I cant get all the help I need in Norway, I'm turning to you for some advice. I've got two rabbits who will be introduced and bonded very soon, and If all goes well I'm going to have them together where the female is now. The only problem I see is that there is another rabbit in the same room, a unspayed male.. My question is, will this cause any problems, will my buns figth because of him? They can smell eachother, but not see oneanother. My friends in Norway didnt have enough experience to help me, but maybe som of you can help me? It's urgent, I'm leaving for eastervacation on Friday, and have to have a plan workt out by then.. Both of mye rabbits are spayed, and they have been in the same room as the other rabbit without any problems earlier, in different pens though, but they could see and smell eachother. I'm going to clean the pen where the female is before I put them there together, so thats not a problem.

Hugs from Norway!

[jrn1310]

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=55913&highlight=bonding Cheryl wrote this a while ago and I have to agree with what is said.

Do not use a huge area when bonding as they will either stay at each end of the space or they will spend lots of time chasing about. Also ensure that you have the time to achieve this without leaving them, ideally where you ahve a couple of days where you have no need to go out.

My main concern from what you have written is that you appear to be wanting to bond them in the same area that they currently live. If this is the case your chances of bonding them without injury will be slim. sorry if I have misinterpreted what you have written. I cannot over emphasise the importance of using neutral territory when bonding, if you have no space where your rabbits have not been before I would suggest finding a friends house where you can introduce them.

[Frèyja]

No no! Its not the bonding I need help with. As I said I'm going home on vacation, and thats where the bonding is going to take place. At my parents house, they havent been there before. I know what there is to know about bonding, I dont know everything of course. But the basic-knowlegde, such as introducing them on a neutral area, not to big. I also have plenty of time to watch them during the bonding, my vacation lasts for 14 days.

What I dont know is wether I can have them in the same room as another rabbit after the bonding, a unspayed male.. Or is this going to make them figth a lot? I can also have them in my bedroom, Its quite large. But there is carpetfloor all over. Is this a problem, they are 100 % houseclean. But the male has been living there for some weeks now and I don't know if i can get the smell from him 100 % away.. Will this be a problem u think?

Sorry for the bad english.. Hope you can answer me still :)

[jrn1310]

What I dont know is wether I can have them in the same room as another rabbit after the bonding, a unspayed male.. Or is this going to make them figth a lot? I can also have them in my bedroom, Its quite large. But there is carpetfloor all over. Is this a problem, they are 100 % houseclean. But the male has been living there for some weeks now and I don't know if i can get the smell from him 100 % away.. Will this be a problem u think?

Sorry for the bad english.. Hope you can answer me still :)

Until you try you wont know if having the uncastrated male in the same room as the bonded pair. Sometimes referred aggression occurs due to this, othertimes people are lucky.

If you are going away for 2 weeks the smells on the carpet will diminish a lot in that time, do make sure you vacumn it before you leave which will remove any debris first. There is a small chance that this may be a problem, however as the pair you are bonding have not been on your bedroom carpet the chances will be low to cause fighting.

[Bavarian Bunny]

It can be a problem and cause fighting if they smell the male bunny, especially when he isn't neutered. Is there a reason why he can't be neutered? To be on the safe side, I would keep your bonded pair in a different room. It can take many weeks until they are really bonded, and so I would try not to upset them too much. Might be a good idea to wash your hands after you have handled the single male, too. And have him neutered, if possible, to make him less "smelly".

Good luck!

[capel]

edited as I'd not read your last post!:lol: If you get the male neutered you could bond all three at the same time, or is that not possible?

[mullethead]

I think it could cause a problem as they will sense the other male:D

[Frèyja]

Capel said: "If you get the male neutered you could bond all three at the same time, or is that not possible?"

It's not my rabbit, I'ts my one of the people I live with who owns the unspayed rabbit.. If he was mine, I would have spayed him yesterday! But she thinks it's to expensive, and I can't force her either ;)

I think I'm going for the floorcarpet/bedroom solution, thats what sounds the most resonable thing to do. The male, his name is "Tuborg", have been living in my bedroom for a couple of weeks now, and the female has been there to, but only for some hours and that was months ago. During there first bonding-attempt they where there (in my bedroom) for about 10 hours together, but since I didnt have enough time to watch them I had to cancel. I'm going to vacuum it, and then spray some vinegar? ("edikk" in norwegian) on the carpet, to try and wipe of the smell from the male. Allthough I think it's going to be allrigth.

Is it anything I should have i mind when I'm cleaning the carpet? And on off topic question, why is it so important not to touch the bunnys during the bonding?

:wave:

[jrn1310]

why is it so important not to touch the bunnys during the bonding?

:wave:

With any relationship there are 2 types of bonding, primary and secondary. Primary being the relationship between the rabbits (in human terms you and your OH), secondary the relationship between these rabbits and yourself (you, your other half and their friends).

When bonding rabbits the important relationship to start with is the relationship between the rabbits, they need to sort out who is the dominant partner and how they go about doing things. By interfering with them you potentially add another 'being' into the relationship, they then have to start working out out of the 3 of you how things will be. This causes confusion to them when you withdraw from them (move away from the bonding pen) as one of the dimensions in their relationships is removed, resulting in confusion and the need for the rabbits to have to start again with sorting out the dominance issue in their relationship. This can cause delays in the bonding and also increase the stress that the rabbits experience. Once they have sorted out what the heirachy is, it is ok to introduce the secondary relationship (ie introduce yourself to them).

In human terms most people move in with their OH, getting to know them first before introducing other people to their relationship. Introducing other people while they are getting 'familiar' with a new OH to some people can cause friction amongst the couple ... same with rabbits.

When bonding rabbits, the time factor is also very important, from my own experience rabbits left without being interfered with bond quicker than those who are interfered with.

[Frèyja]

Okej, but how can I then separete them when they begin to figth, and worse, hurt eachother? Should I just leave them to it? That sounds pretty scary to me, but if thats working and surely is the best way to do it I will consider it.. In Norway we almost always watch the rabbits and break up any potensial figths so that the rabbits don't hurt eachother more than necessary.. Is this just rubbish? Should I just let them find it out all on their own? And are you sure this is working?

[Bavarian Bunny]

It depends on how bad the fight is. If they are only pulling some fur, leave them to it. If it gets too wild, it is quite useful to have a broom at hand and carefully separate them with it. For that you need to be able to access the bonding space from above.
If they are very aggressive and biting each other and there is blood, then you need to separate them.
Or you buy ticket for Janice, our bonding expert, so that she can come to Norway and help. :lol: I'll be in Norway at the end of May, but am too nervous to do bondings. :D