Smaller rabbit sellers.

[rspcarabbits]

The activities of P@H are well discussed in these pages but other pet shops, garden centers and sellers go more unnoticed.

The arrival of a really small full grown dwarf(0.995kg) yesterday complete with miniture funky carrier that had only been purchased from a local pet shop in May last year and the subsequent converstaion with the owner got me thinking.

It transpired that he had been bought for grown up children (16ys +) been fed on half weetabix's, dish fulls of pellet food + veg, not been neutered or vaccinated and generally he had been bought on a whim to live outside on his own with what appears to be no correct information ,vetting or common sense whatsoever by the pet shop.

The question is , what are other peoples experiences with the smaller sellers? and are they sneaking under the radar so to speak or do they on the whole give good or better advice than the main player so often discussed on here.

[nursecroft]

In my opinion they are the worst because they are small and so go un-noticed, i know of friends getting animals including rabbits from them with no advice although a few have had to sign a form to say they are responsible for the animal with the name and address on but there is no follow up so how they can know the animal is being well cared for is anybodies guess! Im sure there are a few that give appropriate advice but i think the majority dont.

I remember my next door neighbour buying a rabbit when i was younger from a little petshop, when i went round a few months on they had this prro doe shut in a 2ft hutch because her run was broken and rotten and she was aggressive. (un-neutered, un-vaccinated) when i went to look at her i opened the sleeping area door and found her sat on the largest mound of poos it was awful there was no bedding at all, her claws where over grown and she was fat. She promptly grunted at me (couldnt blame her!!).

The petshop had told her NOTHING so i spent the afternoon educating her on how to pick her bunny up and that she needed to go to the vet! I took some nails and hammer and fixed the run for her and then scrubbed the hutch. That bunny was a different bunny by the evening she had been in the run all day, had a clean hutch and after lecturing her mum she ended up with a better life. These petshops just dont care, a little education costs them nothing, i think its the dont give a damn attitude that causes so many owners to be ignorant and irresponsible.

[Deelove]

As a general rule I find smaller pet shops to be far worse than P@H. It is easier to put pressure on a big company which is why I think they get more stick. I've been in some terrible small petshops, who will generally not give out good information. Have poorly looking rabbits, not have the right equipment or food for sale and tend to not be willing to discuss these matters with you.

[cute_fuzzies]

Well, one of the main reasons I often defend P@H is because I do think that they are one of the better shops about - i've not had any bad experiences, and certainly when you compare it with most of the other shops around! Rabbits and guinea pigs together, no hay (i.e. no hay whatsover at all... not just that they had ran out!). Of course though, there is nothing that will be perfect about any shop that sells animals... it's on a sliding scale of terrible to better than most :roll:

I personally think they are discussed so much because as a nationwide chain, most people of the forum have heard of them - it means that people can share some common ground and complain together communally. Human nature I suppose - i'd be more inclined to start a thread that others could relate to and understand, rather than one where most people will think 'oh, well i've not heard of that place'...

I'm sure that if somebody said "I went to xxx shop yesterday, the rabbits had no hay and the hutches were tiny :censored:" the number of responses would be minimal - the sympathetic few who may know where it is or can be bothered to put into words that they are also angry with the situation.

However, with P@H people can join in and say any number of comments 'oh, what a surprise, yet again...' because they know that they are sitting happy on common ground with the majority of the forum and can have a good old chinwag about how much they hate them :lol: I don't have a problem with that per se - but it is for this reason that I think they are probably discussed over and above what would be their fair proportion if every member were to state every time they went into any pet shop and mentioned something that was slightly amiss ;)

But yes, basically I think that the smaller shops tend to be discussed less on the forum because it doesn't generate quite so much interest and debate. Of course, that isn't saying that bad things don't happen in P@H - there would be nothing to discuss otherwise - but I agree that they certainly are by no means the only culprits. At the end of the day, they are only 200 stores across the whole country amongst probably 1000 rabbit selling shops? Basing this on the fact that I can think of at least 4 or 5 rabbit selling pet shops between my local P@H and the next one...not particularly scientific, but there we go... Considering that most of those in my immediate area still consider hay a luxury, muesli as standard, no visible care information and that the two species quite happily co-habit, I have to admit i'm not entirely hopeful for the rest!

Not sure how much sense that makes - i've only had one cup of tea this morning....:rolleyes:

[Kay]

I was removed from a pet shop in Crewes Hill because I complained about the poor state the rabbits were in. They had half wild rabbits in tiny wire cages and were selling them as an Easter special offer last year. The conditions were horrendous and the tiered system they were in meant that the poor bun at the bottom had all the pee from the others going into his cage. They had no food or water and had flies all over them. The RSPCA did visit from my complaint and things improved in that a fan was introduced and the odd carrot was shoved in but not much else.

I think the law is very leaniant towards all animal sellers. Considering we call ourselves a country of animal lovers I think its disgusting.

Its like a morbid curiosity that means I can't help but go into these places to have a look even though I know I will get upset. As a member of Jo public I feel very helpless.

[kayj]

I got a phone call off a small pet shop about 3wks ago asking if I would like 2 rabbits as she can't sell them because they are to old (6mths) and are aggressive, when I told her that if she got them neitered then she would notice a difference but her reply was Nahh I'm not doing that, so as you can imagine I saw red and said no but rescues up and down the country who like yourself don't make a profit at what they do are expected to pick up the pieces and foot the bill for people like yourself.

[rspcarabbits]

A small pet shop not too far away from us once sold a man who could only be accurately described as of limited intellect 12 rabbits and 21 hutches.

We removed 31 hutches and 22 rabbits from the property and the number above were what we identified as of having come from the pet shop situated not 100yds away.

We approached the pet shop and asked politely what the "hell they were doing", selling such a person such a number of rabbits and hutches and they tried to explain they had no idea the person could not cope.Most of the hutches from this shop were nearly new and one in fact had never been used.

For a short period of time ,shamed and embarrassed they aggreed to stop selling livestock(it did get in the press with me standing on this almightly pile of hutches and after all we are talking about a small local community) but now time has passed they are selling again completely not bothered by the suffering they once caused or the expense they incurred the local branch rspca with, not to mention taking advantage of a person with limited abilities.

This is just one story but our experiences of small pet shops and garden centerswe know of, it is pretty dire. When you try to tell them rabbit facts about sexing , diet , pairs, accommodation or whatever you are wasting your time. If it in any way interferes with the keeer-ching of that cash register they don't want to know but the thing that really winds me up is that they then try to tell you how much they care for their animals, only use selected breeders, blah, blah blah......

Certain large pet shops have come in for a fair bit of stick on here, some rightly deserved and some only because they are a household name and focal point,but.... I have to admit there does appear to be some change with their direction and only time will tell if it will be in the best long term interests of rabbits or in fact will be sustainable.

The same cannot be said of the small pet shops and garden centers we know of.

Are our experiences the same as your's?

[IzzyTwig]

The smaller pet shops are usually worse than places like P@H I've found, but some are superb but they're pretty rare. A lot of small places seem to have shut down where I am or stopped selling livestock, probably because they don't make much profit.

But the really shabby market shops still seem to exist with animals in crampt conditions :(

[Lucy]

Smaller pet shops are generally bad with respect to selling animals. They have more pressure on them to make a profit and need the sale. Conditions seem to be worse than p@h as they don't have the space p@h do or the money to buy in good quality accomodation. Either way they can end up in rubbish and ill educated homes, but small shops seem to have worse standards in my opinion.

[MaxiandScottandbuns]

Ive found a lot of smaller shops to be a lot worse

Theres one up the road from here selling bunnies kept in the tiniest glass cages...the kind youd usually keep a hamster in :shock: and they also sell hutches labelled as rabbit hutches that cant be more than 3ft x 2ft or even smaller! Unbelievable!

They have a sign up that says "we cannot guarantee the sex of any of our animals" and i spotted two "we think are male" guinea pigs making their mating noises and mounting. I also spotted syrian hamsters getting into brutal fights with nothing being done!

Disgusting. Theres a little shop by my mums house too that sells baby bunnies no more than 5 weeks old, its so saddening:(

Often theres HUGE ignorance in these little places and theyll even sell to kiddies

[chloaster]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the P@H near me would be considered a palace to some of the buns I see in the local pet shops :cry: One in particular they are shoved at the back of the shop where there is very little light, in tiny hutches, stacked up against the wall on their own.

[Lucy]

Yes, I know of one which also says they can't gauruntee sexes. Makes you wonder why people buy 2 in that case, asking for trouble in my opinion, especially when they don't get them vet checked.

[sillyrabbit]

My Buu was from a garden center. When I brought her I also brought the largest hutch they had there which was 3ft :evil: Even though I didnt know about this forum and the recommended hutch size even I could see then it was too small :( As it was winter and she was just a baby the hutch was set up in the house and the door was always open until I managed to find a bigger hutch. Even then I could only find 5ft and the quality was terrible. Its a huge problem here with hutches as nowhere sells 6ft. How is anyone supposed to buy the correct housing if they have never seen it in shops and dont know its exists :(

Ive tried my best telling these shops they need to sell proper hutches because there is nowhere else to get them from here but they wouldnt order any :?

I was given advice about hay when I brought Buu, but I think it just depends on who serves you at the time :(

I did visit a small pet shop last year and posted about it here, there was a guy working there who was standing by the rabbits and telling people to go to the animal shelter. I was like brilliant but ive not seen him in there again so they probably found out what he was doing :(

[Deelove]

The place Chris got Puck and Bilbo from was supposed to be a wholesaler of feeds. We were shocked to find rabbits there. The guy in charge of them was drunk, we were told he released some. They were exposed to all the elements. Another time they had two very large adults living in the same cage my degu are in.

[rspcarabbits]

So far nobody has much good to say of them which leads the question what can be done regarding them?

With regards obvious cruelty the rspca should always be contacted but in addittion it should be remembered that the local environmental health department are the people who licence pet shops ect and a complaint should be made to them. The more complaints that are made the more they will take notice because at present re this issue it has been our experience that they do not treat it with any degree of seriousness as the amount of complaints made is still quite small.

With outlets that sell other things such as garden centers we have found it always worth wile seeking out the manager and informing him/her you can no longer shop there because they sell animals and your new greenhouse for example will have to be bought elsewhere. Its only when they realise they can loose business over an issue that they take note. That can also be true of larger pet shops.

These are small things the average reader on this forum can practically do to help the plight of rabbits in these establishments. Lots of people want to get involved with rabbits care but cannot run a rescue for example , however they can assist in rescue work by helping to stem the flow and being persistant about it to the right people.:)

[Teepee]

I will "go against the grain" and say something good about a very small pet shop located in Melksham, Wiltshire (where I used to live)...though I gather already most small pet shops to not follow their example.

While I disagree with animals being sold in shops like 1p sweets and wouldn't consider buying one in this manner as a result, THIS particular pet shop (I thought) had staff that seemed to care about the animals they "stocked" per say and would provide long lectures accompanied by care sheets when selling.

How do I know this? - Because I bought a goldfish from there and received such lecture and care sheet associated to goldfish many "moons" ago!:) I commented to the lady who gave me such "lecture" that it was "very informative thank you" and she replied: "You will be surprised how much you get attached to animals in a small store like this - I just want to make sure you know what you need to..."

So, I guess, not ALL are bad...though I fear (from reading this) most are:(

TP;)

[raine]

Although I am against animals being sold in pet shops and garden centres. Whilst they do, they do need to be "perfect". My local Notcutts which does sell rabbits, is. Most of the staff are rabbit owners and I have noticed that they will not sell single rabbits, do not sell at Easter or Xmas, will neuter rabbits if they are older and currently have a pair on sale at £160 because they have been neutered, always get vet treatment for anything they feel is iffy with their animals. When I helped with the 95 neglected Oxford bunnies, one of the staff came on her day off to help clean the maggots etc from these poor animals. The staff have worked there for years and are very responsible with their "selling rabbits". They have also taken back rabbits for a variety of reasons given by owners and will then rehome them.

I wish that Notcutts follow Wyevale in stopping selling animals, but wanted to share my experience of a company that still sells them.

[bunlover]

dont know but im pleased to say my local got better recently not sure what really made him wake up but tho he never has sold rabbits always sold hutches and rubbishy mix went in the other day for hay(as his stuff is really nice) and noticed the small hutches were no longer there... as he is a chatty bloke i said...oh have you sold out of all the small hutches? he replied goodness no i have stopped selling them as there is a new animal rights act coming out soon...i was shocked but very pleased he said rabbits need more room so im selling min 4ft for guniea pigs and others to order!!! was proper chuffed... and on the food stand he had bags of excel and another pelleted one as well as the russel rabbit... i was very pleased.(nb he sells fish and occasionally but rarely hamsters so has never been a prob with livestock) on his desk where the till is is a list of rspca leaflets on animal care which says please help yourself (various animals are there!) so i guess they not all bad however one in ashford is horrid and iv reported to rspca before so i guess it seems to vary! but well done to the little man near me! looks like he on right track eh?! stil not sure who or what changed his mind but im pleased as in general he seems nice :)

[Gem]

My local independant pet shop is pretty good, yes the hutches could be better but they are a damn site better than most PAH's and the other one of a chain store in town

[CRBevis]

I wish that Notcutts follow Wyevale in stopping selling animals, but wanted to share my experience of a company that still sells them.

Don't know whether it's the same chain, but theres a Wyevale garden centre near me and they sell livestock!

They have a few hutches out on display with cuddly toy rabbits in them!



Pampurred Pets is a smaller chain than P@H and I think they are very poor at their care for livestock and information!

[Doncat5]

I only use a very small pet shop quite near to me, she can get vitually anything I ask for, but the main reason I use her, is because she doesnt sell any animals and is realy into animal welfar.... most small shops I've been to are terrible, dirty and cramped. I just wish selling of livestock in shops would end, full stop!

[Beebop]

I agree, most small petshops are by far worse than p@h, however, what bothers me with p@h is that they are so greedy and don't need to go the lenghts they do. Small petshops like someone else said, need the sales, and I'm not saying thats right, but it explains why they do what they do. p@H don't have that excuse, plus they are constantly narked at to improve, yet they rarely seem to do so sufficiently.

I also hate the way they buy off a large animal mill, the small petshop I go to buys off a hobby breeder who shows their animals and as far as I know the owner has inspected the premises and found it acceptable. They had stopped selling animals for a while, but I was in yesterday and find they are at it again. :(

If p@h set a good example prehaps other smaller shops would follow it! Or is that just wishful thinking?

[ShazzaBunny]

Nicole (who is a member here) runs the pet shop part of a garden center. She does an amazing job, i cant remember the exact measurements, but im sure her runs are 6ft x 6ft with a hutch too. Nicole does not sell her animals to anyone unless she is fully happy that they will be neutered, vaccinated and have a forever home. She even has adoption forms, and promotes recueing where ever possible.


She also stocks a range of pet supplies you simply cant get anywhere else. Such as megazorb, SS feed, oxbow feed, oxbow hay. Nicole only sells rabbit accomodation that she see' fit for her rabbits.

But then, im really lucky to have such an amazing local pet store, and to be great mates with the manager.

[Lspacehopper]

I know some people are aware which area I work in, and around us there are quite a few smaller pet stores. In the last two days I have spent time with 2people who have been and purchased rabbits at two of them. Whilst talking to them I asked if they had been told about vaccinations and neutering (got a blank expression). I asked if they had been told about about the food ratios and what to feed (got a blank expression). In the end I asked what they had been told (got a blank expression). I spent half an hour with each couple and went through everything that they should have been told. I sent them away with vaccs and neutering leaflet, rabbit care and rabbit care in winter leaflets. One of them had to buy hay as they weren't told that the rabbit needed a constant supply.

Basically, they had gone in and said 'I'll have that rabbit please'. The rabbit was boxed up, they paid and off they went.

Today a lady was buying a Nero 4 as her pregnant GP was about ready to pop. She told me she had bought a pair of females some weeks ago (one turned out to be male) at a local small pet shop. I asked her why she was having to buy a cage for them. She told me that the shop won't do anything to help.

Say what you like about PAH, I know that the local small pet stores in the area really are shocking.

[rabbitmum]

i think the law has recently changed (april last year) so that the animals have good living environments also.it used to just be that they had to be fed and watered to some degree.
some pet shops that we have been to on our travels,we have called the rspca to.we used to live in london and that was horrendous as they sell kittens and puppies also.one pet shop in particular we would go into every week and would always come out and ring the rspca as the kittens always had cat flu.
we used to get our stuff from a really good pet shop...a man came in and wanted a kitten and the shop owner asked him questions and told him he couldnt have it until he showed that he had got insurance for it.like he said you could walk out the shop, drive home and get involved in an accident..can you pay for emergency surgery?
we do use p@h as they are cheaper for mixes etc but we buy great hay from the local petshop who doesnt stock livestock

[toffee]

Most small petshops are awful, but 2 of my 8 rabbits are from a garden centre near my work. They made sure I knew what I was doing before I bought them (2 separate occasions) and were encouraging keeping them as house rabbits.

Prince is a tiny lionhead and they told me I should keep him indoors until he was a grown up. Melanie is a giant and they said she must be kept as a houserabbit (free range) or in a large shed with garden access.

I am very pleased with this garden centre. They keep the animals well and their enclosures are spacious and clean. Rabbits are kept in an enclosure which is about 4ft x 6ft. They always have hay and are always sprawled out doing "happy feet" when you go in.

They are also reluctant to sell rabbits as children's pets - when I bought Prince they gave him to me in preference to a small girl who had been looking at him as well!

[heidilovescows]

I was removed from a pet shop in Crewes Hill because I complained about the poor state the rabbits were in. They had half wild rabbits in tiny wire cages and were selling them as an Easter special offer last year. The conditions were horrendous and the tiered system they were in meant that the poor bun at the bottom had all the pee from the others going into his cage. They had no food or water and had flies all over them. The RSPCA did visit from my complaint and things improved in that a fan was introduced and the odd carrot was shoved in but not much else.

I think the law is very leaniant towards all animal sellers. Considering we call ourselves a country of animal lovers I think its disgusting.

Its like a morbid curiosity that means I can't help but go into these places to have a look even though I know I will get upset. As a member of Jo public I feel very helpless.


Are you talking about the large one in the corner near the plough ,is it?! (i don't live in the area but my OH's parents do)

I despise this pet shop. Not for products but the animals. I feel so sorry for them in their tiny enclosures. Especially the puppies and cats. I don't remember the state of the buns as i've refused to go into the 'livestock' :censored: sections since then. But overall, it's just not right and it sickens me and makes me very sad. Dammit.

H x

[Poppymum]

We have a Nottcuts near here and the place is a disgrace

[kelly-joy]

I used to work in a pet centre can't name it for legal reasons.
I was one of a few people that were in charge of the pets there and the things they did really made me sick and really upset me.
They used to shove all the sick animals down the back and we were told that we were not to feed them or water them and to leave them to die of course me being an animal lover brought these pets and took them to my vet forked out loads of money on them and if they made it {which sadly most didn't} I would find good homes for them.
When animals died they were put it cardbord boxes and thrown in the bin:cry:
I called the rspca and they didn't do anything. I even went to citzens advice when I left the company after saying to the manger about being un happy about the way the animals were treated and we put a case together but as this company were so well known and had plently of money they turned it around and said that I spend far too much time down the back were I feel alsleep and I was so cruel to the animals which of course was complete rubbish.After speaking to legal persons they advised me to take the hush money {which wasn't much}and that I wasn't to speak of this company otherwise I could go to jail and that I should do this as the company could make things very hard for me. So I took the money and signed the form saying I wouldn't say anything..I really hate myself for doing it too there is not a day that goes by that I don't wonder if it is still going on and feel for all those poor babies that go through there doors:cry::cry::cry: