Newbee's numerous questions :-D

Hi all!

My OH and I have been talking about getting some rabbits for some time so when I discovered that a lady nearby had found that her 2 females were acctually "one of each" (and 5 unwanted babies had resulted from this error!!:shock it was enough for us to offer 2 of the babies a home.

The babies are still with their Mum and won't be ready to leave her until the week before Easter (at the moment I'm not even sure what sex the rabbits will be), so in the meantime I have been doing some "reading up homework" and generally getting things sorted ready for their arrival:

1) I have bought a 5 foot x 2 foot x 2 foot outdoor hutch which I thought would be okay whilst they are babies and have enlisted the help of my (clever and more "carpentry able" than I!) dad to extend this to a 5 foot x 6 foot x 2 foot hutch once they are bigger. Q1: Will this be big enough or should I suggest a larger extension?

2) My garden is "rabbit proof" in that it is enclosed by a high wall on all sides but I figure it won't be any good until they are bigger anyway as the ground will be wet and cold. I have therefore "rabbit proofed" my spare room in order to give them "running space" in the meantime and for cold/wet weather when they are adults too. As it stands therefore I have not bought a run yet. Q2: Will I need one if I intend supervising "outdoor play" anyway?

3) I intend calling my vet tomorrow and arranging a provisional "check-up" date soon after their arrival to "double check" sex and age, to get a general health check and to seek advice on immunisations and spaying/neutering. Q3: Anything else I need ask about while there - worming?

MOST IMPORTANTLY Q4: I am more than a little bit wary of putting my baby rabbits in their outdoor hutch with such changable weather (will they even have a thicker winter coat if born this time of year??) So I was wondering whether it would be wise to purchase an indoor hutch (or bringing the outdoor one inside while it is yet to be extended) and keeping them in until they have been checked over by a vet and the weather is warmer...I was debating one of those "hutch covers" that regulate the heat but remain "not happy" with the thought of them being outside "hutch cover" or otherwise. Any thoughts on this?:?


Thanks for any help and sorry for long (and somewhat rambling!) post.:wave:

Were the babies born outside? Have they been living outside since birth? If they have then there shouldn't be any problems keeping them outside as long as you have a hutch cover to protect from driving wind and rain.

I would advise getting a run so that they have a safe area to play in and are protected from predators such as cats and foxes. Just make sure they have a covered area or hidey hole incase the weather does turn whilst they're out or any predator comes along so they can hide.

As for the vet check the vet should advise you on everything you need to know, you can worm rabbits as a preventative measure but there are mixed thoughts on how necessary it really is.
The main thing is to make sure you find a rabbit savvy vet. Ask for someone who specialises in small animals and exotics and who has a lot of experience with treating rabbits. There is a thread of questions to ask a new vet on here somewhere, I'm sure someone will be able to find it for you.

As for the hutch, it depends what size the rabbits will grow to. Also you say 6x5x2 I presume that's 2 foot deep, is it 6 feet wide or high? How many levels to you plan to have as although levels are good rabbits need plenty of head space. But it sounds as though it will probably be fine.

I would say the most important thing is to find a vet who knows a lot about rabbits - many don't! Ask if they've attended small animal conferences, how many rabbits they've spayed, what is the cause and treatment for stasis, what anaesthetic do they use for bunnies, what type of stitching? etc. - be demanding and annoying like me A good vet won't mind you asking - a bad vet could kill your rabbits :?

If the babies are living outside at the moment they'll be used to the weather, but I always cover my hutches with rugs at night too, just to settle them and put off predators, as well as keep them warm (I cover them on the hottest summer night too, for the first 2 reasons). I've never used my run as they like a bigger area - I fenced off part of my patio for them to run on (garden was great but my girls are diggers!)

The other thing you need to remember is vets sometimes sex rabbits wrongly - they are very hard to do - so keep checking for testicles! Your problems may start when the rabbits hit puberty, start fighting, but are too young to be neutered - all depends on what sex they are, and they might be fine anyway - a lot depends on their personality. If one is a boy he will be fertile for 6wks AFTER neutering too - 'accidents' are all to easy! They will become less cuddly then too, so it's a good idea if you can get them used to hopping into a basket or carrier for taking them around, as they probably won't want to be held.

Thank you so much for your quick reply.

Yes, they were born outside and remain outside but I am a bit of a worry-bag and wouldn't want them cold as they won't have mum to snuggle up to anymore will they?...I'm assuming there will be no harm in bringing them in will there - just until the weather turns warmer?

I will indeed get a run then and will use my spare room in the meantime.

My current hutch is 5 foot wide x 2 foot deep x 2 foot high so (as the rabbits are dwarf) I was intending bringing the front out to make it 5 foot wide x 6 foot deep x 2 foot high...would that be okay do you think??:? I will see how much space they need height wise once grown - I could always ask my Dad to extend upwards too if need be...

Again, thanks for your help Izzy Twig.:wave:

Hi :wave:nothing really to add on the advice that all the others have given was wondering where in Wales you are ?
Might be able to help you with a good savvy vet

P.S. Thanks for your help also elve - I have bought a cat carrier to fetch rabbits in and for vet visits so (hopefully!) they can hop in that and won't have me all trying to catch them when they're grouchy!

I'm Cardiff Karen354 any advise appreciated (otherwise I will ring all in area and ask them millions of questions!lol!)

Welcome to the forum:wave: The only problem with making the hutch 6' deep(front to back) is that it will be very difficult to clean , or did you mean that you are going to attach a run to the front of it ?

No, I was intending hutch not run and having a "door in the side near back" of extension so that I can reach to clean the original part of the hutch if you see what I mean? It will have wire front door PLUS side board door for cleaning purposes.:wave:

AARRGGHH! Sorry, it will have a wire door PLUS a board door (the sleeping quarters) to the front and a board door each side of extension to clean these areas...this is only my first "hutch plan" though so I'm open to suggestions. I was then planning to attach a stand to keep the new hutch out of easy predator reach and from the ground.
Thank you for your welcome capel

Sorry to keep replying to my own thread (don't like to start a new one being a newbie and the answer is probably very obvious to most of you) but I am having a bit of a worrying ponder as a result of elve's post:

"Your problems may start when the rabbits hit puberty, start fighting, but are too young to be neutered"

OHH! Can I just ask: Ought I seperate them if this happens??? As I don't know if I'm to receive 2 of the same sex or 1 of each I wouldn't want them hurting each other or (God forbid!!) having babies before I have a chance to blink!! Is there a time before they are neutered that I ought seperate until they are old enough? This has made me a tad anxious now!!:shock:

Hiya there and welcome (Newport born las living in Barry now ) nice to have someone from a nearby area

DOnt worry too much about any fighting... it would prob be gradual and may not even happen but its just worth knowing it so that you can be aware when the tiem comes. Girls can become moody moreso and boys can become a bit territorial, same (and opposite) sexes will want to determine their hierarchy when the hormones kick in. It will be gradual tho and you will be bale to tell. SPraying is a good start from the boys and is usually seen at around 3 - 5 months. You wil notice little lumps in the groin adn when big enough (and two of them) then the vet can operate.
With girls its more liek 6 months and they tend to want to wait until then to operate just to make sure all her bits and formed and so avoid a second op.
If you have opposite sexes then the main thing you need to be wary abotu is unwanted pregnancy. Usually the boy can be neutered before the girl is even ready for her op btu you still need to separate them so that there are now accidents.
If you have saem sexes then dont separate unless there is nasty fighting. You will find that any sex will try to mount each other (a sign of wanting to assert dominance - even same sexes) which is normal. As long as one accepts the other then the ranking will be determined. It can be quick or take a while and can even change through their lives.
If you do need to separate then keep them in smelling/sight distance so that they do not need to be reintroduced at a later stage. But do try and get them neutered/spayed as soon as poss in this case and if poss (same sexes) then get them to go in at the same time. For any routine trips to teh vet even if only one is being seen then I always take both of mine. For comfort more than anything.
On another note if they are separated completely for say 2 days plus then you may need to go down then 'bonding' road - reintroducing them.
It really isnt as daunting as you may think and you will pick up loads of good info here (I did the same as you and did research before gettign Charlie and then again when getting Molly and this forum is amazing!! Dont go anywhere without it lol)... you'll get to know your buns but by far the most imp part I woudl say is getting a good rabbit savvy vet!! Mine is in Barry which may be slightly far for you to travel. Its good having one that is ~10 min drive, less stress for the bun adn for you if you ever had to get there quick.

Right, i'll shut up now cos we now have a novel.
Just have a squizz through the forum and get some hints and tips... loads of good stuff and great people on here and welcome again!! Good luck with the buns
PS ever thought of having house buns?

Thanks for your "novel" of information! Very helpful.
Can I just ask then, say my 2 rabbits turn out to be a male and a female, when should I seperate "in case" of unwanted pregnancy before they are neutered? Do I do it "through observation" and noting a change in the way they behave or is there a given time before operation can be done that I need do so to avoid the same fate as the owners of their Mum and Dad? A tad confused as to whether there is some "rule" or that you sometimes don't need to as male can be done before female fertile...:?

P.S. Nice to meet another forum member so close to home too!

Hi there - There is indeed no hard and fast rule but I believe that does can be fertile from 4 months of age and that the buck can be neutered from 3 months. These are however general ages and each bun will differ. The advantage you have is that they will be from the same litter which means they will be the same age and so the male should reach maturity before the female. The best advice I have is to talk to your (newly found) rabbit savvy vet and they can explain to you what they can do operation-wise for the buns. If everything works as above and your boy develops at 3 months and your vet is happy to operate then then you can get that done before she is fertile. BUT he will still be fertile for up to 6 weeks after neutering so separation should be considered from 4 months of age. HOWEVER, again if all goes to plan and your vet is happy to operate at 4months of age on your doe then she can be spayed one month after he is neutered and so no need to separate.
Its all very well in theory but each bun will differ and your vet can advise best on operating ages etc.. Also it does take several weeks for the hormonal behaviour to settle just for info.

For our situation, Charlie was neutered at 5 months, late simply because he was an only bun then so no worry about pregnancy, and I didnt want him to undergo an op cos he was just so little (tho I now know it is very common and routine and best for the buns to have this done), tho he was def ready for at least a month prior. It was the day he sprayed me whilst I was cleaning his cage :shock: that I finally thought itr had to be done!!! He was grunting at us and circling our feet for some time prior to this (which meant he loved us and wanted his way with us - bless!) showing his hormonal behaviour...
By the time we had Molly, Charlie had been neutered for 4 weeks, but she was only 12 weeks old. She was then spayed at 4/5 months old which for her small size (and the fact that she was a rescue bun and we didnt know her exact age) this was the earliest the vet was happy to operate. She didnt really show much hormonal behaviour, I was just so anxioous to get her spayed before there was much change in her incase her and Charlie faught - again my ignorance of the situation thinking it woudol be furballs at dawn the moment she felt a surge of hormones!! Which would be a very drastic change.

One thing i'd like to add, even tho this may be the most fiddly situation with the neutering/spaying etc, doe/buck partnering is a good one to opt for. Same sexes can get on really well and many guys on here are in that situation, but for me personally i'd opt for the opposite sexes just from my own experiences. At the end of the day it depends totally on the buns and chances are the litter mates will do well together (esp when neutered/spayed, tho they may not like each other or like each other too much (!) after the hormones kick in and before their ops.)

Another essay - sorry!!

Thank you so much for your detailed information emjay - you've put my mind at rest somewhat.
I don't know the sexes yet (NOT that I trust the lady's source of sexing anyway - the very store she got her "2 females" from none the less!:lol as they are too young and also because I haven't "picked" any of the babies as "mine" I just told her I'd take 2 and await what I'm left with (but it looks like a white with blue eyes and a white with "splodges" as it stands as other owners have come with preferance). There's a 2 out of 3 chance that they'll be same sex but whatever they are I hope that (once neutered and having lived together since birth) I will be the proud owner of rabbits that (FINGERS CROSSED!!!) get on!

On another note I haven't seen a white with blue eyes before - mostly red eyed I thought whites! I initially worried in case that was a sign of eye trouble (blindness crossing my mind) but "reading homework" assures me this is not the case...

Again, thanks for your help!!

Personally I'd seperate them by 12 weeks of age if they're different sexes as even though does technically aren't mature enough to conceive until 4 months, accidents have happened with younger does. Just make sure they're still within seeing/smelling distance of each other so reintroducing shouldn't be too much of a worry.
As said, boys can be done as soon as their bits drop, which is usally 3-4 months. And girlies at 6 months. And a boy can be put with a girl about a month after castration to make sure he's no longer fertile. Even if you get a same sex pair, get them neutered to prevent fighting when they're older if they're bucks and lots of unwanted hormonal behaviour and the chance of cancer in does.

Red eyed buns have more sight problems, so your blue eyed buns will be fine.

You must post pictures when you get them, they sound goegeous! The hutch sounds fine especially with the extension, lucky buns, just make sure you can clean it out easily being that large.

yes you are supposed to seperate the sexes at 12 weeks old - some rabbits mature younger than others depending on genetics, so it's safer to split them at 12wks

Awww! I think I have just found a SUPER source of information!! THANK YOU SO MUCH ALL!!! I have had SOOO much help in such little time I feel spoiled!
To be fair, I am not too sure HOW old buns are and (as said) lady is consulting a store rather than vet so thinking much studying (through use of those pics in FAQ) and vet visit ESSENTIAL asap to establish both sex AND age once they're here.

I am just very glad that I have found this site and feel much more confident regarding the arrival of babies as a result.

I intend "getting them done" whatever sex definately as I have read both sexes can exhibit undesirable behaviour (and in girls ovarian cancer) if not spayed/neutered. I am more concerned about being told 2 of same sex only to find a cage full of babies before they're "ready for op" to be honest!:shock: BUT HOPEFULLY ALL WILL BE WELL as I'm ready to watch them like a hawk until I'm sure they're fine and dandy and happy...at which point I will watch them like a hawk some more!!:lol:

I think it's great that you are doing research and getting it all thought out - if only everyone bothered to do that!

Although I have to say I wouldn't like to clean a hutch that size - I have to crawl into one of mine because of the doors etc. - make sure you invest 99p in a garden kneeling pad - I couldn't manage without mine

Hmmm I know - it's the best design I can think of to give them room I'm happy with from what I've got (I really can't bare the thought of them all being "squashed" and not being able to complain so I guess little "cleaning doors" on extension the best answer!) HOWEVER, like I said, my Dad is more "carpentry minded" than I so between the time I get them and time for extension he may very well come up with a better, more "cleaning friendly" design!
It's nice of you to say that it's "great I'm doing research" - but to be honest, if I didn't, I'd feel a bit "lost" on how best to meet their needs. I was doing "general research" on the web today (that is how I found this site) and came across newspaper articles that rated rabbits as the number 1 neglected pet nationally. I had a rabbit when I was younger (he was BEAUTIFUL and the reason why I haven't had another rabbit until now - he was SO good natured I didn't believe I'd find a rabbit like him again!) BUT time has past and I need re-educating both because I haven't kept one for YEARS and because I have never kept two together EVER. It IS sad people don't bother but then, some people ought never have pets full stop!

Buns are getting so much more popular as pets (think they are the 3rd most popular now?) and I htink they are the most time consuming too - I can spend hours just watching them doing their 'thing'... i'd be lost without them Just love it when they flop over of an evening on the rug and esp when they do this on each other, inevitbaly you get a head quite happily sat on :lol: Just a bit sad that they arent as understood as they need to be....
I didnt really have a clue about buns and what I was in for (even after research!!) but I wouldnt change a thing now...

As for hutch/bed/home cleaning... I have made myself a right pain in the whotsit bed for them now (and teh piggies!!)... I finally found those neat idea cubes and have made my own base for the ayout and having cable tied it all together I find it very difficult to get inside to clean!! I have two 'doors'/flaps to teh 2nd level where I can put in bowls of food/greens etc and a double width opening at the bottom level but have to try adn crawl in the hoover the carpet on floor 2 (sounds posh doesnt it?! lol :lol... but they love it. The piggies floor is more tricky to clean cos they arent as well hosue trained as teh buns so am thinking of getting some mats to put in that I can drag out and wipe - maybe this coudl be an option for you teepee? Smthn that you can pull out and all the mess coems with it? Maybe even just newspaper or a tray lined with hay etc that can be pulled out? May help the cleaning. Hopefully they will go in just their litter tray so you coudl just brush out any dry material from the main of the hutch with a long brush?

Def get some pics on as IggyTwig says!! They sound beautiful (as are all buns!! )