Does everyone dose regularly with 'panacur'?

In the past I have used 'panacur' (actually I use Lapizole but its the same thing) when I see any signs of EC - either a full head tilt case or just a 'worrying bit of wobble' or weight/condition loss.

I know that some of my rabbits have had EC and to be honest that probably means thay have all had it at some time and either 'shed' it or not . Those that have had an 'active' case have always been treated. 'New' rabbits I have given a 'precautionary' dose (9days) to on advice by the vets. At present they all seem very well (gosh - foolish thing to say!!).

However I get the impression from this forum that some of you dose on a regular basis as a precaution.

I have to say the thought of 'precautionary' dosing of 11 rabbits of whom 10 abhore any kind of medicine puts me off (two are unruly giants of 4 kilos plus who LOATHE being picked up and have huge muscles etc, and another two are houdinis even in the bunny burrito hold and need two people to hold them down). But if everyone else does it and feels its important then I will give it real consideration.

My questions are:
1. do many of you precationary dose regularly even when there are no signs of active EC? (but I know it is 'in' the colony)
2. If you do dose; do you do it for 9 days, 4 weeks or 6 weeks?
3. And how often do you do it? (once a year, twice a year??)

(thinks: If I have to do 11 rabbits once a day for 6 weeks twice a year I will have to give up my job!!! and get shares in the company that makes lapizole!: Or maybe Jack's-Jane could come and stay????).

Advice please!

I dose all the rescues on arrival with 9 days.
I dose all the permenants every 6 months with 9 days.
I dose anybun with symptoms which suggest EC *may* be the cause for 6 weeks.
I dose this rabbits partner for 6 weeks.

Whilst 9 days will not eradicate an EC infection in a asymptomatic rabbit it would protect a non-carrier from contracting the parasite, or at least thats the theory.

I do a nine day course for all 11 every six months

I've nearly finished a 9-day course of Panacur for my girls. I recommend putting the Panacur on a pellet or a piece of veg, as it's soooooooo much easier than holding them down to put it into their mouth. I plan to give the girls a Panacur course every six months.

Thanks for those replies - any others???

Also thoughts on whether 9 days, 3 weeks or 6 weeks is what you need to do?

I've started doing precautionary 9 days courses every so often. I'm aiming for at least every 6 months but I'm also doing it in between if I think there is a need - Charlie had EC last summer and I know stress can be a factor in reoccurence so I'm just in the process of doing them both as theres a lot of change at our house at the moment and they're a bit jumpy, also I'm driving them to Birmingham at the weekend to stay with my mum whilst all the noisy building happens.

The way I look at it is that it doens't cost much to buy panacur (or lapizole) and I've chosen to have them so I should be prepared to go through the hassle of doing the necessary drugs etc, so yes its a slight pain but having gone through EC with Charlie its worth it.

Btw I buy the paste and put it in their little biscuit treats (I split them and make a panacur sandwich!) and my bunny sitter was telling me the other day that she buys panacur liquid (i'm sure she said the one for horses is the cheapest and to just make sure its 10%) and puts it on pieces of weetabix, does a massive batch at a time, lets them dry and just feeds one to each bun. That might make mass medication a bit easier?

I do not use panacur 9 day course as I think..personal opinion..it is a waste of time..
the 9 day course is a worming treatment..therefore " if " your bun has worms...
it can be used to eradicate them..
but
if your buns had worms...which can carry the EC bugs..then a 4-6 week course would be needed to make sure the bun is clear of EC.

The 9 day course is not long enough to deal with EC.....and I think there is no point in giving the bun a 9 day course and then waiting to see if any other signs of the disease occur..as delay in treating this can mean permanent damage or death.

And just to add..with all the rabbits we've had through the rescue..and including all my friends and families animals..I've only ever known one rabbit with worms.

honeybunny said:

And just to add..with all the rabbits we've had through the rescue..and including all my friends and families animals..I've only ever known one rabbit with worms.

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Hi Jill, I have a slightly different take on this but I could be totally wrong. Are we talking nematode worms here? ie 1 cm long, colourless little things. I thought that buns had them in their gut all the time, and when they were stressed they're more likely to multiply and cause problems. I've had to treat Charlie for worms a fair few times in the past, especially as he's got older. For example, when he has his vaccinations he gets a bit 'low' afterwards and often ends up with worms and/or chaetyella/mites. My vet says that they're both their in low numbers all the time and when Charlie is feeling a bit down they 'take over'.

Bev
There are several types of nematodes..some of which can be presnt and cause no trouble in small quantities...(these often cause problems when they have multiplied in very young rabbits and cause various enteritis-type problems).....until set off by stress and or illness, ect..as you have said.

rabbits can also be infected by tapeworms..passed by domestic cats and dogs..and also foxes..then picked up by grazing buns..

I, as already said... have only known one bun to have had worms that we have seen in/on the rabbits droppings

Due to the "life-cycle" / re infection of/by the Ec spores..a course of treatment at least 4 weeks long is needed

my statement on the 9 day course still stands as the impression given on this and other forums ..is people see the 9 day course as a cure/prevention of EC..not a wormer..
in fact several people have been told to use only the 9 day course by their vet when the rabbit has presented EC symptoms..so even vets seem confused by the marketing of this product

I've never actually used Panacur, never had a bun with worms, or with EC. *touch wood*

But I'd use it if needs be. It seems we've been extremely lucky with all our buns over the years.

Just to clarify

Its the EC rather than worms that I am concerned about - none of the rabbits have worms.

twigs

honeybunny said:

Bev
There are several types of nematodes..some of which can be presnt and cause no trouble in small quantities...(these often cause problems when they have multiplied in very young rabbits and cause various enteritis-type problems).....until set off by stress and or illness, ect..as you have said.

rabbits can also be infected by tapeworms..passed by domestic cats and dogs..and also foxes..then picked up by grazing buns..

I, as already said... have only known one bun to have had worms that we have seen in/on the rabbits droppings

Due to the "life-cycle" / re infection of/by the Ec spores..a course of treatment at least 4 weeks long is needed

my statement on the 9 day course still stands as the impression given on this and other forums ..is people see the 9 day course as a cure/prevention of EC..not a wormer..
in fact several people have been told to use only the 9 day course by their vet when the rabbit has presented EC symptoms..so even vets seem confused by the marketing of this product

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9 days is a preventative course. I give it to all the rescues on arrival to protect them incase they are not already asymptomatic carriers. Whilst 50% of rabbits register for exposure to EC that does not mean 50% are actively carrying the infection and these are the bunnies that need protection from the asymptomatic carriers.

Unless you are prepared to titre test all rabbits it is impossible to know what category each falls into. For the sake of a few pence and 2 minutes of my time each day I personally feel happier knowing I have done my best to control the spread.

So the 9 days is not about 'curing' those infected, but protecting those that are not.

You could argue that all rabbits should be given a 6 week course however.

Yep but my point is..the 9 day course worms them..it doesn't prevent EC..if the rabbit is going to be exposed to it..
you say you panacur all new arrivals to protect them from carriers..but after the 9 days is up they will still be at risk from any asymptomatic carriers you may have...:?
the only way to stop the spread is quarantine and hygiene..which I know you are hot on..A bun picking up EC spores needs a 4-6 week course for it to be effective..
as said before as i understand it..the 9 day is a wormer..not a cure or protection for EC:?

I think E.Cuniculi is absolutely rife in pet bunnies. If I ever have another one I really won't know what to do, as a 9 day course doesn't seem like it would be very effective, but I wouldn't want to administer a 6 week course unnecessarily.

honeybunny said:

as said before as i understand it..the 9 day is a wormer..not a cure or protection for EC:?

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No its a preventative course for EC, as well as a traditional wormer, let me find you the manufacturers literature. Its not a cure, think of it more like a vaccination.

If the theory is that most buns have some level of EC in them, Panacur would certainly bring the levels down, even at 9 days only. But I don't see that it could prevent EC from developing, as its effects in the body are so short-lived.

http://www.intervet.co.uk/binaries/92_127294.pdf

With this extract:

The efficacy of fenbendazole for
preventing experimental infection of
Encephalitozoon cuniculi has been
investigated.3
Rabbits were infected with E.cuniculi
during a 9 day treatment period with
fenbendazole:
 Treated rabbits remained
seronegative and the parasite could
not be isolated from brain tissue.
 Untreated controls seroconverted
and spores were isolated.
Fenbendazole is effective for
E.cuniculi prevention in rabbits.

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So it suggests that a rabbit on a 9 day course of Fenbendazole when it first comes into contact with a spore is protected. However in the case of a rabbit being infected by its partner I would use 6 weeks on both as the partner will be expelling spores over a prolonged period.....the above ws laboratory controlled.

SarahP said:

If the theory is that most buns have some level of EC in them, Panacur would certainly bring the levels down, even at 9 days only. But I don't see that it could prevent EC from developing, as its effects in the body are so short-lived.

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TBH its all a matter of when you start worming, i.e. what stage the spores lifecycle is at during primary infestation. Its very hit and miss but Fenbendazole is a safe drug and over a 9 day period my personal feelings are its worth doing.

Who knows it my even bring levels down sufficiently in a carrier to allow them to fight it off with their own antibodies and not develop active EC which they were otherwise bound for. (This is entirely speculation)

Sooz22 said:

TBH its all a matter of when you start worming, i.e. what stage the spores lifecycle is at during primary infestation. Its very hit and miss but Fenbendazole is a safe drug and over a 9 day period my personal feelings are its worth doing.

Who knows it my even bring levels down sufficiently in a carrier to allow them to fight it off with their own antibodies and not develop active EC which they were otherwise bound for. (This is entirely speculation)

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That's true - I never thought of that possibility.

I do all the rabbits here every 6 months and those with symptoms for 28 days every time they show symptoms or every 3 months which ever is soonest.

I just finished dosing 52 rabbits for 9 days and am currently doing 10 for 28 days, as one of the group that came in together has head tilt, and need to start another batch for 9 days as we have had lots of new arrivals. This is quite a task as there are 141 rabbits here at present! But given the dreadful symptoms the parasite causes it is worth it.